Sabbath

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OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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#21
What does it mean for us today, to keep the Sabbath holy? It is still a commandment.....
It is indeed. The fourth commandment in the list of the 10 moral commands of God. :) If we're not to keep the Sabbath as some argue, are we to steal then? Is it OK to murder then? Ignoring those commands as some would argue we are to ignore the 4th?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,796
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#22
What does it mean for us today, to keep the Sabbath holy? It is still a commandment.....

Many have an overly pious interpretation of the word, holy. It usually means to be separate. A good example is that we who believe Jesus are a holy people a peculiarpeopl. That is we strive to be in the world but not ofit.

I believe I keep the Sabbath Holy and it is, for me, on the Seventh day because our Father said it is, but this does not goso far as to say I do not worhip on Sunday or any other day.

We now believe Jesus, so we worship very day, but for me the Sabbath is a gift. Read what the Father says about it when He gave it to us as a gift......
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#23
Being indwelt by God's holy spirit we're always in relationship with the most high.
The argument that really doesn't comport with scripture is that which condemns observation of the Sabbath, while the one making that argument knows themselves to be one who goes to church on Sunday. That's observing what is the spirit of the Sabbath on a day the Lord did not identify as the day of rest.

There is that argument that repeatedly argues, we are not under the law. And yet, if that is believed they would then be arguing they don't abide nor respect the ten moral commands, or laws of God, that Jesus did not abolish at all. The law and the prophets , he said, hang on two commandments. Love the Lord your God with all your heart. And love your neighbor as you love yourself.
The ten commandments encompass that very thing. Are we to disavow those? Thou shalt not steal. Murder. Take the Lord's name in vain. Etc...

Up to the Book of Revelation we read that the Sabbath, this well after Jesus returned to the father, was observed and by the Apostle John on the isle of Patmos.
How is it argued to be something wrong, that we observe God's Sabbath on the day he designed for us to? We Gentiles, or Christians, are grafted into the olive tree an are nourished by its root. Ezekiel 37 & Romans 11.

And how does someone condemn resting on the Bible's Sabbath day, per those scriptures, and worship God in church on a Sunday? Thinking that much better and more in keeping with God's will?
They can't.
Thanks. I can see your point, though I disagree with your implication. I know that many Christians erroneously think Sunday is the Sabbath and that it is therefore proper to worship (and rest) on Sunday. I look at Sunday worship as a convention, participation in which is not inherently wrong.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#24
it was a command for the nation of Israel only. it was never commanded for gentiles. we are to take a day of rest, as God the father instituted in the Creation, but non-jews were never under the Sabbath command.
It is part of the 10 Commandments and the bible does not state that these were meant only for Israel. Besides a law the commandments outline what sin is. For the 4th commandment to be no longer valid the other 9 would also have to be invalid. In such case, there would no longer be sin in the world as there would be no legal basis for it or an established penalty for breaking the law.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
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#25
What does it mean for us today, to keep the Sabbath holy? It is still a commandment.....

We are to enter into His rest. Sabbath in Hebrew means 'STOP". As in...stop from your own works!

So then when we cease from our own works we enter into Christ and do His works that are prepared in advance..that we should walk in them...by the Spirit.

So then keeping the sabbath holy is to walk in the Spirit...speaking His words and doing His works. In that place of the Spirit is rest and peace.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
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#26
Being indwelt by God's holy spirit we're always in relationship with the most high.
The argument that really doesn't comport with scripture is that which condemns observation of the Sabbath, while the one making that argument knows themselves to be one who goes to church on Sunday. That's observing what is the spirit of the Sabbath on a day the Lord did not identify as the day of rest.

There is that argument that repeatedly argues, we are not under the law. And yet, if that is believed they would then be arguing they don't abide nor respect the ten moral commands, or laws of God, that Jesus did not abolish at all. The law and the prophets , he said, hang on two commandments. Love the Lord your God with all your heart. And love your neighbor as you love yourself.
The ten commandments encompass that very thing. Are we to disavow those? Thou shalt not steal. Murder. Take the Lord's name in vain. Etc...

Up to the Book of Revelation we read that the Sabbath, this well after Jesus returned to the father, was observed and by the Apostle John on the isle of Patmos.
How is it argued to be something wrong, that we observe God's Sabbath on the day he designed for us to? We Gentiles, or Christians, are grafted into the olive tree an are nourished by its root. Ezekiel 37 & Romans 11.

And how does someone condemn resting on the Bible's Sabbath day, per those scriptures, and worship God in church on a Sunday? Thinking that much better and more in keeping with God's will?
They can't.

We must understand the nature of the law to differentiate between the holiness laws and the righteousness laws. There are 2 tablets of commandments...and that is for a reason. The holiness laws are fulfilled by entering into Christ. The sacrificial sytem of holiness has become obsolete. When we put on the new man we put on His holiness.

The first tablet has the 4 holiness laws and are directed towards God...love God

The second tablet has the 6 righteousness commandments and are directed towards others....love your neighbour.

All together there are 10 commandments. All of them can be done in the Spirit....but the first 4 are exclusively to be done by the Spirit.

When we combine ALL the laws into one...we get a new commandment...love as Jesus loves. Since we are walking in His power we are able to fulfill all the laws at a new righteousness level...the righteousness of God.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#27
It is indeed. The fourth commandment in the list of the 10 moral commands of God. :) If we're not to keep the Sabbath as some argue, are we to steal then? Is it OK to murder then? Ignoring those commands as some would argue we are to ignore the 4th?
Those are not 10 moral commands.

Those are 10 spiritual commands.

They cannot be kept by your carnal will or your carnal understanding.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Also see Matthew 5 and Romans 7
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
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#28
Those are not 10 moral commands.

Those are 10 spiritual commands.

They cannot be kept by your carnal will or your carnal understanding.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Also see Matthew 5 and Romans 7
No, they're moral commandments that pertain to personal ethics and worship.
And they can be kept by human understanding. At least I'd hope a Christian grandpa would know that.
I do not murder. I do not steal. I do not commit adultery.

There were 613 Mitzvah or laws of God. The ceremonial laws no longer apply being Jesus was the last blood sacrifice for the sins of the world.
The civil laws pertained to the Hebrew culture and do not apply. The moral laws , or personal ethics and worship commands are part of what is expected to be upheld by a civil society today, regardless of faith.

The first commandment should be known by every Christian and upheld.

 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#29
It is part of the 10 Commandments and the bible does not state that these were meant only for Israel. Besides a law the commandments outline what sin is. For the 4th commandment to be no longer valid the other 9 would also have to be invalid. In such case, there would no longer be sin in the world as there would be no legal basis for it or an established penalty for breaking the law.
Sorry but the ten commandments were given to Israel and never given to the Gentiles.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Ro 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Gentiles provoke Israel because Israel has rejected Christ and the blessing is passed for now to the Gentiles.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#30
Sorry but the ten commandments were given to Israel and never given to the Gentiles.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Ro 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Gentiles provoke Israel because Israel has rejected Christ and the blessing is passed for now to the Gentiles.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Actually, that would be good news for me if I fully understood that. I can't see how it is even possible to keep the Sabbath holy in this day and age. Even then, I wouldn't understand how to keep it holy let alone actually do it. You wrote a though provoking post that may be helpful to me and for that I am grateful.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#31
There is no temple as in the times of the Theocratic Isael......

Observing the Sabbath is keeping the Seventh Day separate (holy) from the six ordinary days. This is observed under mercy and faith in particular.

I have never used my faith to getout of my employment on any day of the week, but our Father knows I keep the Sabbath always separate from the rest of the week as a treasured gift from Him....

Remember Jesus informed the hypocrites they neglect the three principles necessary to interpret the law, faith, mercy and justice...........

Once the Holy Spirit has entered the heart of anone, he knows which laws are yet in force and which are completed by Jesus Christ.............The law is wonderful once we are freed by grace and mercy in Jesus Christ, but do not say the law is dead; it will never be as long as anyone is able to break it, for breaking the law is sin..........
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,002
2,061
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#32
Actually, that would be good news for me if I fully understood that. I can't see how it is even possible to keep the Sabbath holy in this day and age. Even then, I wouldn't understand how to keep it holy let alone actually do it. You wrote a though provoking post that may be helpful to me and for that I am grateful.
You might need to shake off the old RC teaching and the guilt associated with it. Many RC's have great difficulty with liberty having been long enslaved by guilt laid upon them by the church "fathers". My wife came from such a background and she still after many years has issues with forgiving herself over things Christ has long ago forgiven and God has hidden behind His back to remember them no more.

Ro 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,002
2,061
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#33
There is no temple as in the times of the Theocratic Isael......

Observing the Sabbath is keeping the Seventh Day separate (holy) from the six ordinary days. This is observed under mercy and faith in particular.

I have never used my faith to getout of my employment on any day of the week, but our Father knows I keep the Sabbath always separate from the rest of the week as a treasured gift from Him....

Remember Jesus informed the hypocrites they neglect the three principles necessary to interpret the law, faith, mercy and justice...........

Once the Holy Spirit has entered the heart of anone, he knows which laws are yet in force and which are completed by Jesus Christ.............The law is wonderful once we are freed by grace and mercy in Jesus Christ, but do not say the law is dead; it will never be as long as anyone is able to break it, for breaking the law is sin..........
An attempt to sound pious but not sound doctrine.

Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

The law is bondage not the liberty that belongs to those in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
413
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#34
"Thou shalt not murder."
Oh, sorry, that pertains to Jews only not Gentiles. Murder away! :)
Thou shalt not steal.
Same excuse. Jews only. Gentiles can take what they want as they see fit. Watch out Jews! And anyone else. No-law Gentiles on the prowl. (looks around sneakily)
Thou shalt not commit adultery. Oh, boy! The look on my husbands face hearing that one is PRICELESS! :D
Thou shalt have no other God's before me. Gentile here, I'm on my way to shop for idols of goddesses, since the prohibition against Idols is for Jews only too. Right?

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Jews only! And here I am with a jury summons. Ewww, that's going to be fun! I can lie as a Gentile. That defendant better be worried.

Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother. Jews only! Out of order I realize, but ten commands aren't applicable to me a gentile, a Christian, so what's the difference? I can disrespect my parents and God's OK with that. Because I'm a gentile. And don't have to obey that command.

Oh, what fun! Immoral and Christ like.

Now for some reality. Because when you meet someone who tells you the ten commandments don't apply to Gentiles, and if you know what the ten commandments say, and that Jesus said those ten hinge on the two he gave, love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your min. And love your neighbor as yourself, then you realize what you're hearing argue itself into oblivion when claiming the ten commandments mean nothing to the Christian.
Jesus said those ten hinge on the two he gave. But if the ten don't apply to the gentile then there can be no two that apply either. Because those two hinge , encapsulate, what the Non-Applicable ten commands stated. They were the first, the foundation , of the full law of God that came later.

Here's a great suggestion. Ignore people who tell you something Hebrew doesn't apply to you because you're a Christian, when it comes to the Bible. Trust Jesus. Not them!

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17 NIV). Verse 18 is very important. Why? Because not all has been accomplished yet! That's why. 18."I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smaller letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"

Jesus' second coming has not occurred yet. All has not been accomplished according to the prophecy.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,002
2,061
113
#35
"Thou shalt not murder."
Oh, sorry, that pertains to Jews only not Gentiles. Murder away! :)
Thou shalt not steal.
Same excuse. Jews only. Gentiles can take what they want as they see fit. Watch out Jews! And anyone else. No-law Gentiles on the prowl. (looks around sneakily)
Thou shalt not commit adultery. Oh, boy! The look on my husbands face hearing that one is PRICELESS! :D
Thou shalt have no other God's before me. Gentile here, I'm on my way to shop for idols of goddesses, since the prohibition against Idols is for Jews only too. Right?

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Jews only! And here I am with a jury summons. Ewww, that's going to be fun! I can lie as a Gentile. That defendant better be worried.

Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother. Jews only! Out of order I realize, but ten commands aren't applicable to me a gentile, a Christian, so what's the difference? I can disrespect my parents and God's OK with that. Because I'm a gentile. And don't have to obey that command.

Oh, what fun! Immoral and Christ like.

Now for some reality. Because when you meet someone who tells you the ten commandments don't apply to Gentiles, and if you know what the ten commandments say, and that Jesus said those ten hinge on the two he gave, love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your min. And love your neighbor as yourself, then you realize what you're hearing argue itself into oblivion when claiming the ten commandments mean nothing to the Christian.
Jesus said those ten hinge on the two he gave. But if the ten don't apply to the gentile then there can be no two that apply either. Because those two hinge , encapsulate, what the Non-Applicable ten commands stated. They were the first, the foundation , of the full law of God that came later.

Here's a great suggestion. Ignore people who tell you something Hebrew doesn't apply to you because you're a Christian, when it comes to the Bible. Trust Jesus. Not them!

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17 NIV). Verse 18 is very important. Why? Because not all has been accomplished yet! That's why. 18."I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smaller letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"

Jesus' second coming has not occurred yet. All has not been accomplished according to the prophecy.
Your lack of wisdom is painfully evident.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Ro 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Though a Gentile is not under the law the Gentile knows that murder is wrong as is lying. Sin was in the world before the law. Adam sinned ever before there was the law or the ten commandments.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
12,927
6,952
113
#37
"Thou shalt not murder."
Oh, sorry, that pertains to Jews only not Gentiles. Murder away! :)
Thou shalt not steal.
Same excuse. Jews only. Gentiles can take what they want as they see fit. Watch out Jews! And anyone else. No-law Gentiles on the prowl. (looks around sneakily)
Thou shalt not commit adultery. Oh, boy! The look on my husbands face hearing that one is PRICELESS! :D
Thou shalt have no other God's before me. Gentile here, I'm on my way to shop for idols of goddesses, since the prohibition against Idols is for Jews only too. Right?

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Jews only! And here I am with a jury summons. Ewww, that's going to be fun! I can lie as a Gentile. That defendant better be worried.

Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother. Jews only! Out of order I realize, but ten commands aren't applicable to me a gentile, a Christian, so what's the difference? I can disrespect my parents and God's OK with that. Because I'm a gentile. And don't have to obey that command.

Oh, what fun! Immoral and Christ like.

Now for some reality. Because when you meet someone who tells you the ten commandments don't apply to Gentiles, and if you know what the ten commandments say, and that Jesus said those ten hinge on the two he gave, love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your min. And love your neighbor as yourself, then you realize what you're hearing argue itself into oblivion when claiming the ten commandments mean nothing to the Christian.
Jesus said those ten hinge on the two he gave. But if the ten don't apply to the gentile then there can be no two that apply either. Because those two hinge , encapsulate, what the Non-Applicable ten commands stated. They were the first, the foundation , of the full law of God that came later.

Here's a great suggestion. Ignore people who tell you something Hebrew doesn't apply to you because you're a Christian, when it comes to the Bible. Trust Jesus. Not them!

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17 NIV). Verse 18 is very important. Why? Because not all has been accomplished yet! That's why. 18."I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smaller letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"

Jesus' second coming has not occurred yet. All has not been accomplished according to the prophecy.
What is your take on Romans 13:8-10?

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (emphasis added, of course)
 

OstrichSmiling

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2018
1,027
413
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#38
What is your take on Romans 13:8-10?

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (emphasis added, of course)
My take is, Jesus said it first. :)
The Greatest Commandment
Matthew 22:34
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’c 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

How do we say the Sabbath day, which is the Day of the Lord that he made for us, no longer applies and then get ready for church on Sunday.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,616
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113
#39
What does it mean for us today, to keep the Sabbath holy? It is still a commandment.....
There are quite a few threads on this topic, and there are also quite a few vocal Sabbatarians around. But the Lord's Day (the first day of the week) has been the Christian sabbath every since the resurrection of Christ.

As to those who scoff at Sunday as being dedicate to the pagan god of the sun, Saturday is also dedicated to the pagan God Saturn, who is far more evil (yet no one scoffs at this!). But this is really a non-issue.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,361
1,266
113
#40
My take is, Jesus said it first. :)
The Greatest Commandment
Matthew 22:34
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’c 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

How do we say the Sabbath day, which is the Day of the Lord that he made for us, no longer applies and then get ready for church on Sunday.
When we look at Hebrews 4 we are informed that the word Sabbath simply means rest. It is not a time sensitive word in which many translations have added meaning to the word in a attempt of making into a time sensitive word .

Today as along as today is today any time we hear the word of God and do not harden our hearts we have entered His Sabbath as resting from our own works .

The ceremonial law as the new era of Sabbaths which is celebrated on the first day of the week is a day we do nor have to do our regular work in order to maintain the life of the flesh. It is a day set aside that we can brining the gospel as the kind of fast the disciples knew not of. A day set aside to go out I unto the world in a hope God would feed those who hunger and thirst for a righteousness not of their own self as we offer his gospel . The kind of food ,doing the will of our father and finishing it the kind of food the disciples knew not of .The true fast found in Isaiah 58 .