Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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The assumption and trap 'faith only' advocates try to get people to fall into is that if you do a work then you are automatically trying to earn something.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html
Above is a link to a thread I began a few months ago just for when this very topic pop ups from time to time. The thread has examples from the bible of God's free gift coming with conditions yet working in meeting the condition did not earn the free gift in any way whatsoever.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html
Above is a link to a thread I began a few months ago just for when this very topic pop ups from time to time. The thread has examples from the bible of God's free gift coming with conditions yet working in meeting the condition did not earn the free gift in any way whatsoever.
Saving or Sanctified? 
No one is saying good works are not important, simply placing them in their correct order of the life of the Sanctified believer.
No one is saying good works are not important, simply placing them in their correct order of the life of the Sanctified believer.
Hebrews 6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
If one does not have faith,how can one please God,and how can any works that we do please God without faith?
So faith therefor must be the starting point and everything else flows from it. Seems pretty simple to me.
S
But what too often is left out is premise number one
Hebrews 6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
If one does not have faith,how can one please God,and how can any works that we do please God without faith?
So faith therefor must be the starting point and everything else flows from it. Seems pretty simple to me.
Hebrews 6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
If one does not have faith,how can one please God,and how can any works that we do please God without faith?
So faith therefor must be the starting point and everything else flows from it. Seems pretty simple to me.
Hi,
James said "by works a man is justified". If God saves, then why didn't James say "by God a man is justified"?
God has chosen to attach certain works (belief, repentance, confession, submitting to baptism) to His free gift of salvation, therefore GOD (not any man) has declared doing these particular works brings salvation. That is why James could say 'works justify' for doing those works God has chosen will save.
God's role in your salvation was to provide a way to be saved through Christ. Your role in salvation is to obey Christ (Heb 5:9) in doing these works in order to be saved. Those that choose to do these particular works of God are in that sense "saving themselves" (Acts 2:40; 1 Tim 4:16; 2 Cor 7:1; 1 Pet 1:22). Of course, you are not saving yourself by yourself but you are saving yourself in the sense you have chosen to do those particular works that GOD has chosen for man to do.
This also means faith must INCLUDE these particular works God has chosen would save, not be void of them. That is why a faith that is VOID of doing those particular works God has chosen to save men by cannot save for that faith is in disobedience in doing those particular works God has chosen for men to do.
Since God has chosen the particular works of belief, repentance, confession and submitting to baptism for remission of sins to save, this is why I have many time for a "no works" advocates to demonstrate:
How an unbeliever is saved?
How an impenitent person is saved?
How a denier of Christ is saved?
How one in his unremitted is saved?
They cannot. God has made these works CONDITIONS to receiving salvation and those that obey them will be saved.
Imagine a poster earlier said "salvation is not by obedience or doing the will of God".
That poster is saying one can disobey God's will in NOT believing, NOT repenting, NOT confessing Christ, NOT being baptized for remission of sins yet be saved anyway. Un-be-live-a-ble.
==============
Below is the link to my thread that proves works do NOT earn God's free gifts:
salvation is not by obedience or doing the will of God
James said "by works a man is justified". If God saves, then why didn't James say "by God a man is justified"?
God has chosen to attach certain works (belief, repentance, confession, submitting to baptism) to His free gift of salvation, therefore GOD (not any man) has declared doing these particular works brings salvation. That is why James could say 'works justify' for doing those works God has chosen will save.
God's role in your salvation was to provide a way to be saved through Christ. Your role in salvation is to obey Christ (Heb 5:9) in doing these works in order to be saved. Those that choose to do these particular works of God are in that sense "saving themselves" (Acts 2:40; 1 Tim 4:16; 2 Cor 7:1; 1 Pet 1:22). Of course, you are not saving yourself by yourself but you are saving yourself in the sense you have chosen to do those particular works that GOD has chosen for man to do.
This also means faith must INCLUDE these particular works God has chosen would save, not be void of them. That is why a faith that is VOID of doing those particular works God has chosen to save men by cannot save for that faith is in disobedience in doing those particular works God has chosen for men to do.
Since God has chosen the particular works of belief, repentance, confession and submitting to baptism for remission of sins to save, this is why I have many time for a "no works" advocates to demonstrate:
How an unbeliever is saved?
How an impenitent person is saved?
How a denier of Christ is saved?
How one in his unremitted is saved?
They cannot. God has made these works CONDITIONS to receiving salvation and those that obey them will be saved.
Imagine a poster earlier said "salvation is not by obedience or doing the will of God".
That poster is saying one can disobey God's will in NOT believing, NOT repenting, NOT confessing Christ, NOT being baptized for remission of sins yet be saved anyway. Un-be-live-a-ble.
==============
Below is the link to my thread that proves works do NOT earn God's free gifts:
salvation is not by obedience or doing the will of God
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If works have nothing to do with salvation, then your are saying one does not have to do the works of believing, repenting, confessing Christ or submit to water baptism for remission of sin.......yet be saved anyway. Your have created a biblical impossibility.
Man certainly does have the ability to do what God says else all the commands God gave to men to do in the bible were/are pointless and senseless. Yet we know God gave commands, men had the ability to "do good" and obey those commands.
Ge 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."
God shows Himself that man has the ability to do well or choose to not do well.
Man does not have to first have an "indwelling power of the Holy Spirit" to do well. That idea puts moral culpability, fault, blame upon God/ the Holy Spirit for those that do not do well and therefore should be rejected.
Man certainly does have the ability to do what God says else all the commands God gave to men to do in the bible were/are pointless and senseless. Yet we know God gave commands, men had the ability to "do good" and obey those commands.
Ge 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."
God shows Himself that man has the ability to do well or choose to not do well.
Man does not have to first have an "indwelling power of the Holy Spirit" to do well. That idea puts moral culpability, fault, blame upon God/ the Holy Spirit for those that do not do well and therefore should be rejected.
But if that person is not being sanctified can that person truly say they are saved?
Of course.
Of course.
The faith only advocate will hem and haw about giving a straight up "yes' or 'no' answer.
They cannot answer "yes" for that goes against many bible passages that teach the Christian must do good works, the Christian has been "before ordained' by God to walk in good works.
They cannot answer "no", of course, for that kills their 'no works at all are necessary to salvation" meme.
Since FOA argue works must earn something, do those good works a Christian do earn him salvation?
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S
Church of Christ
23. We believe a temple will be built in this generation, in Independence, Missouri, wherein Christ will reveal himself and endow his servants whom he chooses with power to preach the gospel in all the world to every kindred, tongue and people, that the promises of God to Israel may be fulfilled.
(Mic 4:1-2; Mal 3:1-4; 3 Ne 10:4; Eth 6:8)
23. We believe a temple will be built in this generation, in Independence, Missouri, wherein Christ will reveal himself and endow his servants whom he chooses with power to preach the gospel in all the world to every kindred, tongue and people, that the promises of God to Israel may be fulfilled.
(Mic 4:1-2; Mal 3:1-4; 3 Ne 10:4; Eth 6:8)
I think Mormons refer to themselves as 'Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints'.
Church of Christ
Note how the above link says "At the death of Joseph Smith, Jr. the Church was cast into disarray."
Church of Christ
Note how the above link says "At the death of Joseph Smith, Jr. the Church was cast into disarray."
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E
Hey there mr fishy:
what God really does not like ? people confusing their works with His...
God's COMPLETED work of salvation through His only Son, Christ the Lord, who is seated at His right hand, has fulfilled the requirement of the death penalty for sin!
Yes! Isn't that wonderful? We can rest assured that God has given us this gift of salvation and by His Spirit He will keep us until that day we go to be with Him and all the Saints...those called by His Name...in Glory!!
I tell you...that is so exciting...sometimes I wanna go there RIGHT NOW! but God decides when that time will be and until then, He has things for me to do on this earth
Things like encouraging those who are hurting, praying for others, giving when and where I can, praising and worshipping Him in spirit and in truth throughout the day, praying for folks who make me wanna give 'em a swift kick (that's a little harder but God and I are working on it together...He has SO much patience), doing what I can physically to help maintain the home my husband and I have, being helpful instead of hurtful...and oh so much more
Those are the works God encourages in me and enables me to do...BUT...that is because He has already shown mercy in drawing me and saving me and keeping me!
God places us where we are to be a witness for Him and to teach us and make us all that He wants us to be....and mostly, He wants us to grow up into the Image of His Son...our Savior, Jesus Christ Romans 8
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[SUP]i[/SUP] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
what God really does not like ? people confusing their works with His...
God's COMPLETED work of salvation through His only Son, Christ the Lord, who is seated at His right hand, has fulfilled the requirement of the death penalty for sin!
Yes! Isn't that wonderful? We can rest assured that God has given us this gift of salvation and by His Spirit He will keep us until that day we go to be with Him and all the Saints...those called by His Name...in Glory!!
I tell you...that is so exciting...sometimes I wanna go there RIGHT NOW! but God decides when that time will be and until then, He has things for me to do on this earth
Things like encouraging those who are hurting, praying for others, giving when and where I can, praising and worshipping Him in spirit and in truth throughout the day, praying for folks who make me wanna give 'em a swift kick (that's a little harder but God and I are working on it together...He has SO much patience), doing what I can physically to help maintain the home my husband and I have, being helpful instead of hurtful...and oh so much more
Those are the works God encourages in me and enables me to do...BUT...that is because He has already shown mercy in drawing me and saving me and keeping me!
God places us where we are to be a witness for Him and to teach us and make us all that He wants us to be....and mostly, He wants us to grow up into the Image of His Son...our Savior, Jesus Christ Romans 8
28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[SUP]i[/SUP] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.