Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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Salvation is not possible if you rely on works to attain Heaven. God is not interested in such works, the Pharisees of Jesus day testify to this
Those who do not know God, or are not as close to him as they should be stress works, those who love God as he wants them to love him stress what he has done for them and continues to do. They do not infer Heaven is attained in part by works
Those who do not know God, or are not as close to him as they should be stress works, those who love God as he wants them to love him stress what he has done for them and continues to do. They do not infer Heaven is attained in part by works
What SeaBass is teaching is nothing new. What he is teaching is what caused the Protestant Reformation!
In the Bible God says Salvation is received by Faith and Grace and not by works. The Evil Corrupted Roman Catholic Church teaches it is by your Works only that you make yourself sinless to receive Salvation.
SeaBass is still teaching what the Evil Corrupted Roman Catholic Church taught in 1517! They have not changed and they will never change because no Roman Catholic has ever received Salvation by Works. If they have not received Salvation they have not received the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
SeaBass you have to understand that you are not fighting against us Protestants, that you are really fighting against God. Its God you are fighting against. Its your PRIDE that is keeping you from seeing the Truth from God. Its your PRIDE that will keep you out of Heaven.
Romans 3:27-31
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Romans 4:1-8
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."
Galatians 2:16
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Ephesians 2:1-7
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Works are not involved in receiving Salvation. Works are not involved in keeping our Salvation. We do works because we HAVE received Salvation and the Holy Spirit. You will never receive Salvation by trying to keep the Law to receive Salvation. Nobody can keep the Law. This is what Paul is telling us in the Book of Romans which you really need to read.
Its not by trying to make yourself sinless that we receive Salvation, its by the sinless nature of Jesus Christ that we receive Salvation. As long as you keep on trying to "Earn" your Salvation by works you will never succeed and will never receive Salvation. You will die in your sins and will never enter into Heaven.
Unfortunately you will die in the Evil Corrupted Roman Catholic Church and never enter into Heaven.
In the Bible God says Salvation is received by Faith and Grace and not by works. The Evil Corrupted Roman Catholic Church teaches it is by your Works only that you make yourself sinless to receive Salvation.
SeaBass is still teaching what the Evil Corrupted Roman Catholic Church taught in 1517! They have not changed and they will never change because no Roman Catholic has ever received Salvation by Works. If they have not received Salvation they have not received the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
SeaBass you have to understand that you are not fighting against us Protestants, that you are really fighting against God. Its God you are fighting against. Its your PRIDE that is keeping you from seeing the Truth from God. Its your PRIDE that will keep you out of Heaven.
Romans 3:27-31
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Romans 4:1-8
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."
Galatians 2:16
16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Ephesians 2:1-7
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Works are not involved in receiving Salvation. Works are not involved in keeping our Salvation. We do works because we HAVE received Salvation and the Holy Spirit. You will never receive Salvation by trying to keep the Law to receive Salvation. Nobody can keep the Law. This is what Paul is telling us in the Book of Romans which you really need to read.
Its not by trying to make yourself sinless that we receive Salvation, its by the sinless nature of Jesus Christ that we receive Salvation. As long as you keep on trying to "Earn" your Salvation by works you will never succeed and will never receive Salvation. You will die in your sins and will never enter into Heaven.
Unfortunately you will die in the Evil Corrupted Roman Catholic Church and never enter into Heaven.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not Catholic. I disagree with Catholicism as much as I do with Protestantism.
Several things Luther did not like that Catholicism was teaching, including taking indulgences, where people could 'buy' their way out of purgatory into heaven.
Luther/Protestants reacted...OVER-reacted in going too far in the other direction claiming no work at all was necessary to salvation.
I will stay down the middle with the truth of the bible.
Obedience to the will of God does not earn one salvation, but obedience is part of God's grace.
Several things Luther did not like that Catholicism was teaching, including taking indulgences, where people could 'buy' their way out of purgatory into heaven.
Luther/Protestants reacted...OVER-reacted in going too far in the other direction claiming no work at all was necessary to salvation.
I will stay down the middle with the truth of the bible.
Obedience to the will of God does not earn one salvation, but obedience is part of God's grace.
Working for one's Salvation does not earn one's Salvation.
You may claim your not a Roman Catholic but you are teaching the same doctrine the Roman Catholics teach and that is Salvation by works.
Salvation is not by obedience or works or doing the will of God. Salvation is a GIFT we receive by our Faith and by the Grace of God. One cannot work for a Gift. If you have to work for a gift, its no longer a Gift. If you have to be obedient to receive a Gift, its no longer a Gift.
This is what happens to people like you who really do not understand what the Holy Spirit is teaching in the Scriptures. Without the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit you cannot understand Spiritual things like Salvation being a Gift. Since your mind is in the material world instead all you can understand is physical material things like Work.
Since you do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit we do not need to accept anything you say as being the Truth.
You may claim your not a Roman Catholic but you are teaching the same doctrine the Roman Catholics teach and that is Salvation by works.
Salvation is not by obedience or works or doing the will of God. Salvation is a GIFT we receive by our Faith and by the Grace of God. One cannot work for a Gift. If you have to work for a gift, its no longer a Gift. If you have to be obedient to receive a Gift, its no longer a Gift.
This is what happens to people like you who really do not understand what the Holy Spirit is teaching in the Scriptures. Without the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit you cannot understand Spiritual things like Salvation being a Gift. Since your mind is in the material world instead all you can understand is physical material things like Work.
Since you do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit we do not need to accept anything you say as being the Truth.
K
I highlighted and underlined that part because you are only partly right, as salvation is not by works as no amount of works one does determines salvation.
However your part about obedience and will of God is not by or for salvation is not correct.
Lord Jesus says only those who do the will of God will enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21).
Then there is over 50 scriptures alone in the NT that speak of obedience needed in ones walk in the faith, and over 100 in the entire bible.
2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
it's been a while since i read your posts, and i didn't go re-read them today, but just
to let you know -- i was shocked that someone falsely claimed you were anything similar to the roman catholic whore.
i.e. whatever you posted that i read before, seemed to me to be against the whore, not for it.
and that puts those attacking you over on the wrong side.... perhaps anyway (subject to testing)...
anyway, hope you're (still?) on the right side! (being anti-antichrist is a good start !!!)
to let you know -- i was shocked that someone falsely claimed you were anything similar to the roman catholic whore.
i.e. whatever you posted that i read before, seemed to me to be against the whore, not for it.
and that puts those attacking you over on the wrong side.... perhaps anyway (subject to testing)...
anyway, hope you're (still?) on the right side! (being anti-antichrist is a good start !!!)
I think I will add my two cents in this thread discussion while I may.
1)I believe and affirm that salvation is by works. (hold your horses guys im not Catholic)
2)Since I believe and affirm that salvation is by works, I then, must answer the critical question of WHOs works merit salvation.
3)I believe that Christs Works alone merit salvation.
1)I believe and affirm that salvation is by works. (hold your horses guys im not Catholic)
2)Since I believe and affirm that salvation is by works, I then, must answer the critical question of WHOs works merit salvation.
3)I believe that Christs Works alone merit salvation.
So what act of obedience saves? What is God's will for us to do in order to become saved? Answers are below.
John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Are you saying that this obedience in ones walk in the faith is "needed" for us to become saved or in order to help Jesus keep us saved? What motivates believers to be obedient in their Christian walk?
In Romans 10:16, we read: *But they have not all OBEYED the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has BELIEVED our report?" We can clearly see that we OBEY the gospel by choosing to BELIEVE the gospel. Refusing to OBEY the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) is refusing to BELIEVE the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16). The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) as the Savior of all who believe (trust) in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of their salvation (Romans 1:16). If we are trusting in works "in addition" to trusting in Christ, then we have not obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.
John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Are you saying that this obedience in ones walk in the faith is "needed" for us to become saved or in order to help Jesus keep us saved? What motivates believers to be obedient in their Christian walk?
In Romans 10:16, we read: *But they have not all OBEYED the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has BELIEVED our report?" We can clearly see that we OBEY the gospel by choosing to BELIEVE the gospel. Refusing to OBEY the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) is refusing to BELIEVE the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16). The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) as the Savior of all who believe (trust) in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of their salvation (Romans 1:16). If we are trusting in works "in addition" to trusting in Christ, then we have not obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.
Seabass,what it does boils down is what part works do play in salvation. No works in and of themselves can save. Our works do not and can not cover sin. It is only by faith God declares us righteous,(And that section of scripture can not be used BEYOND what Paul is talking about. That is a very narrow part of it) that is what Paul is clearly getting at in Romans chapters 2-5. But that faith CAN NOT ever be a do nothing faith. Which is what James is getting at.
James 2
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? [SUP]15 [/SUP]Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. [SUP]16 [/SUP]If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? [SUP]17 [/SUP]In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP][d][/SUP]? [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP][e][/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? [SUP]26 [/SUP]As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
A faith that does not DO shows that the heart is actually in UNBELIEF. A faith that does shows that it is in BELIEF.
By the way Seabass I was brought up Lutheran so.... (We were never taught that a living faith CAN DO NOTHING and still be saved) A living faith MUST do because that is the very nature of a living faith.
Works have nothing to do with salvation. Works are a fruit of salvation. Without salvation, there are no "good works." Good works being Godly works. No man is good...........no man can on his own do good/Godly works. It is only be the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit who empowers man, that man is able to do good/Godly works........which equates to doing the will of God.............doing what God purposed him for. Man is saved for a purpose, and is prepared to do that purpose by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
People really need to understand this. It is very important with regards to leading others astray, which will result in more severe judgment for those that do,
People really need to understand this. It is very important with regards to leading others astray, which will result in more severe judgment for those that do,
Truly incredible statement you make in saying "salvation is not by obedience or doing the will of God". So salvation is by doing disobedience, unrighteousness and rejecting the will of God? Such an unbiblical statement as you made here is to be accepted as truth?
Does Heb 5:9 say Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that do NOT obey Him?
Does 1 Thess 1:8 say God will NOT have vengeance upon all them that 'obey not'?
Your post show you have the usual, purposeful misunderstanding about free gifts coming with conditions attached. God's free gift of salvation comes with the conditions of belief repentance confession and baptism for remission of sins attached to it..........unless you want to prove how an unbeliever, impenitent, denier of Christ in his unforgiven sins receives the free gift of salvation while remaining in that state of impenitent unbelief?
Explain how one that continues in unrighteousness and continues to reject the will of God is saved?
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S
Maybe God grades on a curve? Does He hold a two day old Christian to the same standard as someone who has been in the faith for their whole life and has rescued thousands of orphans and made millions of dollars in widows house payments?
Why yes...He does...it's the standard of Jesus' victory over sin.
Why yes...He does...it's the standard of Jesus' victory over sin.