Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[VCO]

Is Faith true Faith a result of works?
Or is the works done through us as was done through Christ by Father the evidence of Faith, that one believes Father and does as Father does, thanks to son showing us how to walk circumspectly in 100% trust to Father to do in and through us what no flesh could ever do, only Christ's flesh did, and ever will be pleasing to Father, Therefore by Faith we are to walk as he walked in 100% dependent on Father to lead in love to all
Or is that too simple, his yoke easy and burden light?

You are Saved (PAST TENSE) by Grace through the FAITH that is TOTALLY a gift of God placed in you by the Holy Spirit.

GOOD Works earn absolutely NO PART of your Salvation, or your Salvation would CEASE to be a FREE GIFT from GOD.

IS the SALVATION and FAITH in you the REAL McCOY?

If it PRODUCES the desire and ability to do GOOD WORKS including perseverance, it certainly IS.

WHY does GOD cause your Salvation and Faith to PRODUCE GOOD WORKS?

For two primary reasons:

So that you man KNOW you are IN CHRIST.

So that those you Witness to may KNOW that your Faith is REAL.


REMEMBER: More often than we KNOW, our lifestyles are the ONLY BIBLE some people will ever look at.

 

[homwardbound]

Don't disagree with you. However, I never stated man works alone. But it is OUR works. We will give an account of OUR works. We are not saved through faith but the works of the Holy Spirit.
When we quench the Holy Spirit, or permit Satan to sway us away from Christ, then we are on our own and we have separated ourselves from Christ.

So you agree with stand fast in what, works or Faith in Christ or both have to be?
When Abraham was justified by Faith saved and sanctified for acting on the faith by the fruit shown in doing as he believed God

 

[homwardbound]

Both, sir!


God told Abraham to kill his son and Abraham wisely respected, accepted, and carried out the offer given.
(God came to Abraham) then (Abraham accepted God)


Most unfortunately, God was only testing his faith, thus Abraham's son life was spared. A pity.

Abraham had complete Faith that even if he did kill the Son gave him, he trusted God as good and that God was even able to raise his Son gave him back to life. It is said in that story of.
And now so what God forbade Abraham to do, God did himself with God's Son and rose Christ back to live for our salvation praying you all see this

 

[VCO]

Is not born of the water from the womb, when the water breaks? Was not known as Amniotic fluid in that day either.

That is the OBVIOUS conclusion when you read John 3:5 & 6 together, instead of yanking verse 5 out of it's context and trying to give it another meaning other than what it says. It has been my experience that whenever you start to look for hidden meanings in the Bible, you usually just end up coming to false conclusions.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Thank you so are you listening:
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Lets look at the context, you're cherry picking:

Luke 7:44-48 (NKJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."
[SUP]48 [/SUP]Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

Now lets look at what our Lord says about someone who loves Him, it certainly was not "faith only" :

John 14:21 (NKJV) He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Luke 18:42

And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

The Greek word "σωσει" translated here "save" means to "heal" or "make well", or "make whole", salvation is not the meaning here.

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

If by faith alone, then it cannot be of grace, if by grace alone it cannot be of faith, therefore you cannot be saved by faith alone, eg: Mark 16:16

James 5:15

and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

The Greek word "σωσει" translated here "save" means to "heal" or "make well", or "make whole", salvation is not the meaning here.

John 6:29

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

To believe on him is to do all he commands else how could you believe on someone you do not love :

 John 14:21 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
[HR][/HR] John 15:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

 

[homwardbound]

I love you brother, but God does not need man to abolish satan. Satan Judgement has already been announced, it just hasn't come to pass as of yet and God uses him to test the faith of His saints. Not that He doesn't already know, but rather to increase our faith, when we go through hard times and God brings us through our faith is increased and we trust Him more. Jesus is God in the flesh and that man defeated any right or claim that satan on the earth. He did it and not us. They way He chose to do it.

Thanks Kerry and seeing this as truth for the:
John 16:11 of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. Christ's accomplishment for us all that is left is for one's flesh to be conquered as dead with Christ
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[homwardbound]

I never said we didn't try. when you or anybody else got saved, the Holy Spirit drew you and convicted you and by faith you acted on it. Faith is an action and we must be willing to faithfully act on the guidance or urging of The Holy Spirit. Therefore, it is not our own, but led by the Spirit.

We are born and taught to be creators are we not?
So then when saved are to change from being a creator to be what we are the creation no longer acting as the creator and start responding to the amazing Mercy of God as God's creation?

 

[homwardbound]

You seem to miss the word, live in faith. That is all about work. I am not stating that man is left alone once he enters into Christ. One is refined by the Father, ONLY IF one continues in faith, that being doing the works of faith. Being doers of the word, not just hearers. James 1:25. It is also called the law of love.
God does NOT perfect you just because you entered into a relationship. That relationship requires work, one needs to meet the requirments of that relationship in order to be saved.

Yes work hard to enter God's rest and rest as God has rested since the foundation of the world, I personally have now entered this rest by Belief, have you yet?
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

God is waiting if you have not ceased yet through belief

 

[VCO]

@VCO

-__-
Haha, you're too hard on us. Even though we're all drenched in sin, we don't undoubtedly deserve to end up in Hell until we actually end up there.

Think again, . . . let me open your eyes to the reality of how bad sin REALLY is in the eyes of GOD:


James 2:9-10 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.


SEE IT? The worst, most violent inmate on DEATH ROW is NOT a worse sinner that we are, WE ARE ALL AS BAD AS HE IS IN THE EYES OF GOD. We are all guilty of breaking ALL OF THE LAW. Quite literally HE saved us from going to hell.

That should give you a whole new perspective on how great a price Christ paid for you personally. Humbling isn't it?

 

[homwardbound]

Again this all implies work. You cannot worship Him with faith. It takes work to worship Him.
It clearly says "I live in the Spirit". It does not say the Spirit lives in me doing the work"
I think you have a total misunderstanding of the use of the word "work" in scripture. Paul uses it 6 times and each has a different definition. Most of you who opt for faith only rather than through faith, don't understand what James, for example is actually saying. Many conflate what Christ has done for us, with our relationship of faith and living according to the precepts of that relationship.

You also show a misunderstanding of the relationship between "flesh" and the Spirit.

Brother I have rested from my works as God has his since the seventh day when he completed the earth, and this is done by belief that brings obedience, no other way as he swore they shall not enter my rest for they did not beleive and sought their own righteousness by works and not Faith (belief) in God Hebrews 3 and 4 clears on this if only God will reveal this truth

 

[homwardbound]

Here is why you misunderstand the difference between "flesh" and Spirit. Doing the will of the Father through faith is NOT doing the works of the flesh. It is precisely the definition of walking in the Spirit. All it means to do works of the flesh is to do them outside of faith. Living IN faith, being saved through faith is all about working with the Spirit. Walking after the Spirit. Imitating the Spirit/Christ. That is why you are confused over the "works of the law" and the "works of faith" or Paul also uses the phrase, "works of love".

Oh we might be saying the same thing, I am at rest in the works God has called me to do are you? Just asking for there are still to this day many stressed out and in worry and are not at rest, so just asking and only you know between God and you what is the truth here and so if you are not at rest in Father through Son and are doing works of stress, please ask Father to show you rest in him and do much more that you do now in Joy and peace and righteousness given you from God
Thank you and love you seeing you do believe and are working out your own salvation with fear and trembling, and coming to the rest in Father as to see it is God that does this in us, teaching us right from wrong and we become doers over just hearers

 

[homwardbound]

Here again you are conflating two different aspects of salvation.
Works cannot save us, because Christ did that for us in saving all men from death and sin. The Gift of salvation to all men is what Christ accomplished for us because we could not.
However, the purpose of God creating us is the same as the purpose He, through Christ redeemed the entire world from death and sin, that is, to be able to have a union, a relationship with man.
This personal salvation is all about man and man's relationship with Christ. God cannot save you apart from YOU living according the the precepts of that relationship.
Again, you use the word, justify. Justification by faith does not save anyone. It puts one into a correct relationship with God, so that we can then in that relationship be saved by living up to the commands of that relationship.

Okay, so please tell me this are you the creator or the creation? Being the creation are you a responder to the creator or a creator with the creator? THe difference of works in the flesh and no works of our own flesh, rather God's work through us?
Who do you give credit to when you do good works, or better yet when another pats you on the back, who do you make clear gets the credit?

 

[homwardbound]

Man does. Which is why we will give an account of our works. It is OUR works on which we will be judged, Rom 1:7, Rev 20:13.

But as I pointed out to you in the previous post, you have the idea that these works are saving us from death and sin. That is your confusion over the works of the law, vs works of faith, and love.

No place in scripture will we be judged on our faith. Which is why faith ONLY is a dead, meaningless faith. That faith must produce works, must show it is alive, must show the reality of our faith. That means following, obeying Him and we will give an account of our works. This is also shown in the parable of the Last Judgement in Matt 25:31-46.

Thank you for your answer and we will have to agree to disagree and trust God to sort us both out as to what is truth or not, Bless you Brother and love you

For I make no:
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Love you as deep as God does Brother

 

[homwardbound]

The works are NOT done through YOU. The Holy Spirit works in YOU for YOU to do the Works of the Spirit. The Holy Spiirt is NOT going to be judged on how well He did the works that were created for YOU to do.
Most of what you say is correct. Christ showed us how to walk. It is US doing the walking not the Holy Spirit. We are to imitate Him. He or the Holy Spirit is NOT doing the imitating. If that were true, faith would be meaningless and God could just as easily do this with every single human being and all would be saved as He desires. But he created man to be the fulcrum of the war between God and Satan. It is YOU that decides which army you will join and remain. No one can force you to join either side, nor can either force one to remain at any time. Man is free. You will be judged on that freedom and held accountable what you did with the gifts so generously given to every man.

Imitating is imitation, and not participation, a major difference, yet i see you on the way to stop your righteous self works that you (MIGHT) think will not burn up. I leave this to Father to cause us both to stand and be free in Father through Son and do as called in Joy, love peace, that flesh can't understand

 

[homwardbound]

The works are NOT done through YOU. The Holy Spirit works in YOU for YOU to do the Works of the Spirit. The Holy Spiirt is NOT going to be judged on how well He did the works that were created for YOU to do.
Most of what you say is correct. Christ showed us how to walk. It is US doing the walking not the Holy Spirit. We are to imitate Him. He or the Holy Spirit is NOT doing the imitating. If that were true, faith would be meaningless and God could just as easily do this with every single human being and all would be saved as He desires. But he created man to be the fulcrum of the war between God and Satan. It is YOU that decides which army you will join and remain. No one can force you to join either side, nor can either force one to remain at any time. Man is free. You will be judged on that freedom and held accountable what you did with the gifts so generously given to every man.

Yes actually they are I am nothing more than God's water glass to use me as God sees fit, which apparently you do not understand yet

 

[homwardbound]

You are arguing against a strawman here. this is your confusion over flesh and Spirit. Doing works is not necessarily flesh. Works of faith or through faith is NOT flesh, but still works.

Yep, works of Father not me or ANY FLESH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[homwardbound]

That is the OBVIOUS conclusion when you read John 3:5 & 6 together, instead of yanking verse 5 out of it's context and trying to give it another meaning other than what it says. It has been my experience that whenever you start to look for hidden meanings in the Bible, you usually just end up coming to false conclusions.

Thanking God to be Faithful to cause us to stand as in Romans 14:5, thanks

 

[homwardbound]

Lets look at the context, you're cherry picking:

Luke 7:44-48 (NKJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."
[SUP]48 [/SUP]Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

Now lets look at what our Lord says about someone who loves Him, it certainly was not "faith only" :

John 14:21 (NKJV) He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."



The Greek word "σωσει" translated here "save" means to "heal" or "make well", or "make whole", salvation is not the meaning here.



If by faith alone, then it cannot be of grace, if by grace alone it cannot be of faith, therefore you cannot be saved by faith alone, eg: Mark 16:16



The Greek word "σωσει" translated here "save" means to "heal" or "make well", or "make whole", salvation is not the meaning here.



To believe on him is to do all he commands else how could you believe on someone you do not love :

 John 14:21 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
[HR][/HR] John 15:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Faith in God produces works of God through us and works does not produce Faith
An apple born in and through the branch of a tree does not work to be produced to become ripe, it abides in the branch and the branch abides in the tree, see I pray

 

[Jabberjaw]

Faith in God produces works of God through us and works does not produce Faith
An apple born in and through the branch of a tree does not work to be produced to become ripe, it abides in the branch and the branch abides in the tree, see I pray

Hearing is something you must do to have faith :

Romans 10:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


so then the work of hearing produces/increases faith which produces righteous works, you cannot get around works.

 

[Cassian]

Abraham and all those that walked by Faith that works were produced by this, were nothing more than vessels being willingly used by God. none of these Saints credited self to what they did at all

So walking by Faith is like being a water glass, made to be used to get a drink at the masters call of that water glass whenever the master decides to use it or not.
So seeing this analogy, I can not fathom ever a water glass, being inconvenienced, if I decide not to use it and it just stays in the Cabinet collecting dust can any of you all? Ever imagine the water glass complaining?

So why do we complain to God and each other and not just rest in God and be God's water glass?

because it denies the whole reason you were first created, then redeemed. If God did as you state here then God would have saved every single human being, all would be in heaven since that is what He desires.