SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[eternally-gratefull]

So a first century legal term which was given to someone who is found innocent of all charges against him, was not used this way until the 9th century.

Thanks. But I will trust God and not you. Who obviously is steeped in the history of your own church, but serously lacking in the history of the 1st century.

Can yuo do us a favor. and look up the greek word dikaioo (translated to justify, to make just) and show us what it means? or would that be to hard for you?

ps. I am not looking for the english defenition of justify, or the latin defenition. I am looking for the greek defenition of dikaioo

well I found the latin word.

justifico (hense where we get the english word)

it means to forgive, to pardon, or to aquite, to vindicate.

Yep. Legal term in the latin, same as it is in the greek.

 

[dcontroversal]

First you need to actually prove that what scripture has always taught must not be correct. You need to prove that your interpretation is actually scriptural, and not a theory.
Unfortunately history has already proven it to be false since it was originated by Luther and not by the Apostles.

Again you miss the mark on at least two points off the top of my head....

1. Salvation by grace through faith based upon the mercy of God and HIS completed work has been taught from the beginning of a promised redeemer as found in Genesis 3:15 as applied to the fall of man...JESUS DID THE WORK
2. Luther reformed CATHOLIC DOCTRINE TO HIS OWN BELIEF...I AM NOT LUTHERN
3. IT IS YOU THAT TEACHES CATHOLIC DOCTRINE which is tied to the first LOST MAN AND HERETICAL TEACHER named CAIN and he taught HIS OWN WORKS which was rejected by GOD....
4. What is tragic is the fact that you are twisting the scriptures to your own demise and if you fail to acknowledge Jesus by true faith void of your human effort you will cook for all eternal ages as Galatians teaches clearly against works as a supplement unto faith for salvation!

Having begun in faith are you now made complete by the works (of the flesh)

WHO HATHE BEWITCHED YOU THAT YOU SHOULD NOT OBEY THEY TRUTH<-----FAITH ALONE FOR SALVATION!

 

[dcontroversal]

So now you even need to change this text to fit your false notions. You are one very confused person. You need a lot of study here. Now, you don't even believe that Christ fulfilled the law for us. You are all over the place with false ideas.

It is you that is from one end of the spectrum to the other as you are blind to the truth and I still say you need glasses as I changed nothing about the Titus 3:5 quote....

Maybe you should go sit in your easy chair and actually study the bible for once in your life with an honest mind set and being open to learning and instruction....

 

[dcontroversal]

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"
Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. [SUP]29[/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [SUP]30[/SUP]since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; [SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? [SUP]6[/SUP]Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."
Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."
Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."
Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."



These verses give sufficient evidence of salvation by faith alone in the NT. There are hundreds of other examples, but these are very direct and clear. The Covenant given by Jesus Christ is fulfilled, and requires nothing of man to be complete, save faith in Christ.

Hebrews 11 shows us that even in the OT, salvation was always by faith.

Please take the time to read these verses, and Hebrews 11. It is the Word of God. Let us submit to the Spirit who breaths life into these words to make them The Word.

AMEN to this set of scriptures and the truth that they teach....WORKS PLUS FAITH for SALVATION=HELL/HERETICAL GOSPEL/TWICE CURSED

 

[dcontroversal]

Justified does not mean SAVED. It means to be put into a correct relationship. You have entered into Christ, you, on the bases of that faith, repentance and baptism, have entered INTO Christ, and this is where your personal salvation begins and exists until, either you leave the Body, or you remain faithful till your death and then the reward for your faithfulness is the inheritance of the promise of eternal life with Christ. There is no such thing as being SAVED finitely in this life in one's relationship with Christ. The Bible is full of examples of believers who left the fold and were assigned to darkness, knashing of teeth, to condemnation with the devil. Hardly a formula of finite salvation in ones walk with Christ.

You evidently don't understand justification as it does not mean to be put into a correct relationship.......

It means legally rendered innocent by verdict!

and Baptism has absolutely nothing to do with salvation, but rather is the outward testimony of an inward act of SAVING FAITH...which you don't have according to your own testimony as you trust into works which have no power to save....

 

[Dude653]

ok. point taken , but if we are saved, we will have a heart for God, if we have a heart for God, we will do works. So if we dont have a desire to do works, them we may need to reevaluate our relationship with God

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't know about the Latin since that came much later and only in the west with Rome.
But the Church was given the Gospel in Greek, scripture was written in Greek, it was taught in Greek exclusively for 900 years before a second language entered, namely the Slavic. Yet, not a single Church Father every descriped that one is saved by faith only. You will NEVER find the phrase regarding being saved by faith only. You will find the word justified by faith only, but never saved by faith only.

Actually the idea of this declaration of "not guilty" from being justified comes in the 11th century by a Archbishop of Canterbury, Anselm who developed the so-called Satisfaction Theory of atonement. It is this theory that Luther adopted as well as most Protestants.
Again, another man made innovation imposed on scripture. You should study it so you would understand better what you actually believe.

The Church does not disagree that one takes possession of His eternal salvation upon being justified by faith. After all, it puts one in Christ where one can be saved. But that possession is conditional. It is conditional on one's faith. One loses faith, one loses salvation. How can one be saved by not having faith, an active, alive, working, fruitful faith?

Really, that is a joke as you claim the Greek, but ignore the verb tenses found therein such as...

1. The Aorist tense verb as applied to John 3:16

IS HAVING ETERNAL LIFE.....

PRESENT CONTINUING RESULT FROM A PAST COMPLETED ACTION

WAS saved when I believed
AM saved right now
Will continue to be saved into the future

Dude, you are a joke and you do not have a clue about the word of God, much less a knowledge of the Greek, because if you did, you would fully understand salvation based upon faith void of human effort to get or keep it!

 

[dcontroversal]

so. Our faith is based on our work. and not our work based on our faith.

Thanks for answering, You just proved a point, Your faith is based on what you do. thus your faith is in yourself.

I agree and will add that the very second they point to their own works to gain or keep salvation testifies to a few things...

1. They call God the Father, Jesus, John, Paul etc. liars
2. They twist the scriptures to their own hell bound demise as they believe a gospel with no power to save
3. They trust in their abilities over the abilities and word of Jesus and the Heavenly Father
4. They are teaching lies and heresy
5. The people that they lead down that path will end up in hell
6. They will be judged as false teachers as Jude teaches about false teachers and the first on the list was Cain who taught his works were sufficient and the way.<----God rejected and he died in his sins

 

[Alligator]

Justified does not mean SAVED. It means to be put into a correct relationship. You have entered into Christ, you, on the bases of that faith, repentance and baptism, have entered INTO Christ, and this is where your personal salvation begins and exists until, either you leave the Body, or you remain faithful till your death and then the reward for your faithfulness is the inheritance of the promise of eternal life with Christ. There is no such thing as being SAVED finitely in this life in one's relationship with Christ. The Bible is full of examples of believers who left the fold and were assigned to darkness, knashing of teeth, to condemnation with the devil. Hardly a formula of finite salvation in ones walk with Christ.

Y Baptism has absolutely nothing to do with salvation, but rather is the outward testimony of an inward act of SAVING FAITH...which you don't have according to your own testimony as you trust into works which have no power to save....

Really? If this weren't so serious it would be funny. See Acts 2:38; Mark 16:15-16; I Pet. 3:21;

 

[dcontroversal]

ok. point taken , but if we are saved, we will have a heart for God, if we have a heart for God, we will do works. So if we dont have a desire to do works, them we may need to reevaluate our relationship with God

That is true, but I will also say that...

1. Works cannot gain or keep one saved
2. Saved people can
a. Backslide to the point that they have forgotten that they have been purged but still saved
b. Walk contrary and be cut loose for the destruction of the flesh yet be saved
c. Be a saved child of God with very if any works=works of wood, hay and stubble yet still be saved
d. Trust Jesus in faith and then fall away yet still be saved as he cannot deny himself and the salvation applied eternally
etc.

 

[dcontroversal]

Really? If this weren't so serious it would be funny. See Acts 2:38; Mark 16:15-16; I Pet. 3:21;

Yeah I know the scriptures well...none of them teach baptismal regeneration but rather are a sign of identification just as circumcision and is the outward testimony of an inward act of faith and the 1st act OF OBEDIENCE after one has been saved.

You teaching watered down blood for salvation is what is serious...seriously wrong!

 

[cjordan38]

Interesting topic.... Without faith its impossible to please God. And faith is the substance of things hoped for. Now as for works....You need them. The Word clearly states that your works praise you into the gates not salvation. In order to do a work for God you must have faith. But none of these mean anything if you dont have love. Salvation is given to all but its up to the individual to hold on to it. You cqn lose it. Seems to me people dont know the importance of works. I see that not many people know what a work is!

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not care where you go in the bible you will never find a verse where we are required to do anything beyond believe what is said of Christ. What you are espousing is exactly the same as what apostate Israel espoused. Paul addressed them in Romans 10:1-3 Rituals and rites are not needed to aid Christ. Christ did all that was required to satisfy Gods demands in atonement for sin. Satisfied to the last iota. Only Christ could do what needed to be done. Only Christ could perfectly fulfill all the demands of the Fathers perfect righteousness.

The fool has said in his heart no God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amen to this and I will add they are also twisting the scriptures just like the Pharisees did of Jesus day and are laying works along side of faith for the right to enter the kingdom of God.....heretical doctrine that will never save a piece of dust, much less a man who by this belief system denies the true faith of JESUS<----Key word OF as it is the faith OF Jesus that saves us!

 

[dcontroversal]

And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the Word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit, and brings forth some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. Matthew 13:23

Your quote belies that you miss the point of the OP completely....no one is saying that true saved children of God will not desire to do what is right by God....the contention is...

1. Saved by faith based upon Grace and Mercy<----- based upon the completed work of Jesus

as opposed to

2. Salvation earned and kept by works.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Peter must have been real dizzy as well. 1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

God does it all man does nothing of his own merit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amen to this scripture as well.....the problem is the fact that they don't believe the word of God and do not trust Jesus the God of heaven to save them and keep them saved.....they would rather trust in their works and their watered down blood for salvation which will never save them as they are missing the mark with their heretical doctrine.

 

[dcontroversal]

Interesting topic.... Without faith its impossible to please God. And faith is the substance of things hoped for. Now as for works....You need them. The Word clearly states that your works praise you into the gates not salvation. In order to do a work for God you must have faith. But none of these mean anything if you dont have love. Salvation is given to all but its up to the individual to hold on to it. You cqn lose it. Seems to me people dont know the importance of works. I see that not many people know what a work is!

Salvation cannot be lost and is not dependent upon works to gain or keep it!

Take time to study the meaning of aorist tense verb as applied unto John 3:16

IS HAVING ETERNAL LIFE

Was saved when I believed
Am saved right now
Continuing to be saved into the future

Present continuing results from a past completed action!

SAVED TO THE UTTERMOST!

 

[LT]

Interesting topic.... Without faith its impossible to please God. And faith is the substance of things hoped for. Now as for works....You need them. The Word clearly states that your works praise you into the gates not salvation. In order to do a work for God you must have faith. But none of these mean anything if you dont have love. Salvation is given to all but its up to the individual to hold on to it. You cqn lose it. Seems to me people dont know the importance of works. I see that not many people know what a work is!

Amen bro. I wouldn't go so far as to say that salvation is by works + faith, but I agree that too many Christians are not being active in producing good works out of love.

 

[dcontroversal]

E-w-w-w-w-w. . .

I see a whuppin' comin'.

HAHAHHA

 

[cjordan38]

Amen bro. I wouldn't go so far as to say that salvation is by works + faith, but I agree that too many Christians are not being active.

You know its funny you reply because i can remember how we had opposing sides in other forums. But im glad to see that someone knows that we must work. That we cant sit around and do nothing. He said occupy until i come. But did you see how God said a lack of knowledge will cause one to perish.

 

[dcontroversal]

Romans 3
3 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

AMEN to this as well...from posts earlier they have proven that they do not understand Justification and that it means legally rendered innocent by verdict.....God has examined those who have trusted into the faith OF Jesus and has seen the blood, passed over us and has legally rendered us innocent-->Justified and it all comes by grace, mercy, faith=true biblical salvation!