Serious Questions about the Trinity

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Brigitte

Guest
#61
#61
Everybody has their own interpretation of the Scriptures. We need to realize that God is infinite and cannot be put in a box. Many times God doesn't make sense to us but we need to accept it. Our understanding is partial because our knowledge cannot compare with God's wisdom. But, because we cannot explain something, because it doesn't make sense to us, doesn't mean it's not real and true.

Regarding the Trinity, I believe that the Bible shows us clearly that the Father is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that there is only one God.

Let's just accept these spiritual facts and not try to explain their possibility with earthly wisdom. We need to approach these facts as a child. Jesus said: "Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of God belongs to those who are like these children. I tell you the truth, anyone who doesn’t receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it." We also read in the Bible that: "it is impossible to please God without faith."
 
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Nalu

Guest
#62
#62
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Not real helpful in specifically determining God's constitution.

And love isn't always a namby-pamby wishy-washy free-for-all at the expense of truth. Discipline is love. Standing for truth is love.[/QUO

Proverbs chapter 6 verse 2.

The Gospel of Matthew chapter 12
verses 34, 35, 36 and 37.
Click to expand...
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#63
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
0
#63
Brigitte said:
Everybody has their own interpretation of the Scriptures. We need to realize that God is infinite and cannot be put in a box. Many times God doesn't make sense to us but we need to accept it. Our understanding is partial because our knowledge cannot compare with God's wisdom. But, because we cannot explain something, because it doesn't make sense to us, doesn't mean it's not real and true.

Regarding the Trinity, I believe that the Bible shows us clearly that the Father is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that there is only one God.

Let's just accept these spiritual facts and not try to explain their possibility with earthly wisdom. We need to approach these facts as a child. Jesus said: "Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of God belongs to those who are like these children. I tell you the truth, anyone who doesn’t receive the Kingdom of God like a child will never enter it." We also read in the Bible that: "it is impossible to please God without faith."
Click to expand...
And yet... You arduously contend for a formulated Trinity Godhead doctrine. If God is infinite and can't be put in a box, why do you have a Trinity box and tell others to have a Trinity box; unless they present another box, to which you reply there should be no box.

What a convoluted multi-layered double standard. God either IS a specific doctrinal formulation of Trinity or He ISN'T. Don't take ANY position if you can't substantiate it.
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#64
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
0
#64
Nalu said:
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Not real helpful in specifically determining God's constitution.

And love isn't always a namby-pamby wishy-washy free-for-all at the expense of truth. Discipline is love. Standing for truth is love.[/QUO

Proverbs chapter 6 verse 2.

The Gospel of Matthew chapter 12
verses 34, 35, 36 and 37.
Click to expand...
Feel free to remain mute if you choose.
Click to expand...
 
Z

zackabba

Guest
#65
#65
Joe90 said:
"You do know Jesus was born of a virgin, correct? Okay - so, He didn't have a human father - instead, God was truly His Father. So, yes, He's the offspring of the Father Himself. Who else would He be the offspring of?"

Yes for sure I know he was virgin-born LOL. What I'm saying is that if the Father was deity, then that's God.

So if you make the Son deity, you've either made him his own Father or you have (at least) two gods.

...and the Word was God...and the Word tabernacled among us..."

If you make Jesus the Son of God, the Word, then you have two gods.
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You "LOL" but you still don't understand it - it means He wasn't born of a human father.

Do you connect the two together?

His Father was God - directly, according to His humanity, His Father was God.

His mother was Mary - according to His humanity, His mother was Mary.


...do you still not see it?
 
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Nalu

Guest
#66
#66
Nalu said:
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
Not real helpful in specifically determining God's constitution.

And love isn't always a namby-pamby wishy-washy free-for-all at the expense of truth. Discipline is love. Standing for truth is love.[/QUO

Proverbs chapter 6 verse 2.

The Gospel of Matthew chapter 12
verses 34, 35, 36 and 37.
Click to expand...


These Scriptures I posted speak clearly. No need for me to talk.
Click to expand...
 
J

Joe90

Guest
#68
#68
'His Father was God - directly, according to His humanity, His Father was God.

His mother was Mary - according to His humanity, His mother was Mary.'

...do you still not see it?

It depends on how you define Mary as his 'mother'.

If you say she had some genetic contribution to Jesus Christ, I disagree entirely - otherwise we are no longer saved by the blood of God, but by human blood.

But if you say that Mary was the woman by which Jesus, the Son of God, entered the human race as a man, then yes, I would agree that she was his 'mother'.

But note that Jesus always called her 'woman' not 'mother', but that he had to be about his Father's business.
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#69
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
0
#69
Joe90 said:
'His Father was God - directly, according to His humanity, His Father was God.

His mother was Mary - according to His humanity, His mother was Mary.'

...do you still not see it?

It depends on how you define Mary as his 'mother'.

If you say she had some genetic contribution to Jesus Christ, I disagree entirely - otherwise we are no longer saved by the blood of God, but by human blood.

But if you say that Mary was the woman by which Jesus, the Son of God, entered the human race as a man, then yes, I would agree that she was his 'mother'.

But note that Jesus always called her 'woman' not 'mother', but that he had to be about his Father's business.
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I'm not quite sure from this what you are advocating. Could you briefly outline it for our orientation?
 
B

Brigitte

Guest
#70
#70
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
And yet... You arduously contend for a formulated Trinity Godhead doctrine. If God is infinite and can't be put in a box, why do you have a Trinity box and tell others to have a Trinity box; unless they present another box, to which you reply there should be no box.

What a convoluted multi-layered double standard. God either IS a specific doctrinal formulation of Trinity or He ISN'T. Don't take ANY position if you can't substantiate it.
Click to expand...
Trinity because, as I said, the Bible clearly states that:

- the Father is God
- Jesus is God
- the Holy Spirit is God, and
- there is only one God

Three in one.

No double standard of how many layers you want , no personal position, just what the Bible states.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#71
#71
Joe90 said:
'His Father was God - directly, according to His humanity, His Father was God.

His mother was Mary - according to His humanity, His mother was Mary.'

...do you still not see it?

It depends on how you define Mary as his 'mother'.

If you say she had some genetic contribution to Jesus Christ, I disagree entirely - otherwise we are no longer saved by the blood of God, but by human blood.

But if you say that Mary was the woman by which Jesus, the Son of God, entered the human race as a man, then yes, I would agree that she was his 'mother'.

But note that Jesus always called her 'woman' not 'mother', but that he had to be about his Father's business.
Click to expand...
oh dear, i'm hoping I'm misreading your words and intentions...

we are saved by the blood of JESUS CHRIST and HE was HUMAN, He was GOD incarnated in HUMAN Flesh, therefore His BLOOD would have been HUMAN blood.

want to tell us what you Jesus was if not human and how you can tell if Mary made "genetic contribution to Jesus Christ" or not and why that would matter considering the redeeming work of Jesus upon the cross?
 
Z

zackabba

Guest
#72
#72
Joe90 said:
'His Father was God - directly, according to His humanity, His Father was God.

His mother was Mary - according to His humanity, His mother was Mary.'

...do you still not see it?

It depends on how you define Mary as his 'mother'.

If you say she had some genetic contribution to Jesus Christ, I disagree entirely - otherwise we are no longer saved by the blood of God, but by human blood.

But if you say that Mary was the woman by which Jesus, the Son of God, entered the human race as a man, then yes, I would agree that she was his 'mother'.

But note that Jesus always called her 'woman' not 'mother', but that he had to be about his Father's business.
Click to expand...
...excuse me?
 
J

Joe90

Guest
#73
#73
Is there a question you need answered, Zack?
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#74
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
0
#74
Brigitte said:
Trinity because, as I said, the Bible clearly states that:

- the Father is God
- Jesus is God
- the Holy Spirit is God, and
- there is only one God

Three in one.

No double standard of how many layers you want , no personal position, just what the Bible states.
Click to expand...
First of all, I affirm each of those things and I'm vehemently not Trinitarian.

Secondly, the Bible doesn't clearly state that Jesus is God. I affirm that He is and substantiate it, but scripture doesn't clearly state it.

Further, the three ARE one, not three "IN" one. And there are two other God-models that affirm those points.

The Bible doesn't "state" Trinity. It was formulated and you are indoctrinated. Maybe you should make your case from scripture since you claim it states Trinity.
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#75
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
0
#75
Joe90 said:
Is there a question you need answered, Zack?
Click to expand...
I think we're all wondering what you mean by several of your posts. Would you clarify your view of the overall nature of God and of Jesus in particular? It's not clear from your posts. You seem to have indicated that Jesus is neither Divine nor human.
 
trust_in_the_name

trust_in_the_name

Banned
#76
Jan 18, 2011
1,117
5
0
#76
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
I'm vehemently not Trinitarian
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With all due respect, PneumaPsucheSoma, have you considered the possibility that you'd have a much easier time reaching, convincing, and communicating with people if you were *less* vehement? It's not as though vehemence is somehow a necessary part of standing firm on one's position. I find it brings me peace to remind myself often what Paul wrote to Timothy (and no doubt I do often need reminding):

24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, (2 Timothy 2:24-25)

So, how then are we to correct those who are in opposition? In humility, patiently, gently, that they may know the truth.
 
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mpaper345

Banned
#77
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#77
Jesus is fully God and fully man,so that explains it.Either He was speaking from His human side or His deity side.He knows all things as God,but the Son,flesh,does not know all things.The Son,flesh,is inferior to God,and prays to God,and had to do everything a human has to do to be right with God for the salvation of mankind.No man can do this so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,which means Jesus is the one true God manifest in flesh.

The Bible says that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.

Jesus is fully God and fully man,and that explains it,that is all.That is as close to a trinity as you will get.There is God with no distinction of persons,and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.2 persons,God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.Jesus would talk either from His human side or His deity side.

That is why Jesus would claim to be God,and then claim that the Son is inferior to the Father,because He is fully God and fully man,and would talk either from His deity side or human side.Jesus is God personally in a visible manifestation and the visible relationship of God to the saints.

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem(Luke 24:47).

If someone does not want to believe that Jesus is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,then explain why Luke says remission of sins,which occurs in baptism,as told by Peter in Acts 2:38,is to be preached in Jesus' name,and add to that,in the book of Acts,Jews,Gentiles,and Samaritans,were all baptized in Jesus' name,all things done in word and deed are to be done in Jesus' name,there is no other name under heaven whereby we are saved,but the name Jesus,and all power in heaven and earth has been given to Jesus,so why would we baptize in any other name but Jesus.

It says baptize in the name,singular,of the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,so there is one name to identify these titles,and these are titles not names.Father,and Son,are not names,but titles for a position,and Holy Ghost is not a name,but God is a Holy Ghost.The name is Jesus,which is the name that is above all names,not only in this world but in the world to come.

How is Father a name,and if it is a name,then how can the name of Jesus be above that name,since the name of Jesus is above all names,not only in this world,but in the world to come,the New Jerusalem.How is Son a name,and why does it say name,and not names.

Why would Jesus tell Luke baptize in His name,and then tell Matthew baptize Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,unless Jesus was telling them that the name is Jesus,and the disciples baptized Jews,Gentiles,and Samaritans,in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is fully God and fully man,and that explains it.He can either talk as God or as a human.That is as close to a trinity as you will get,2 persons,God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.
 
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macswife23

Guest
#78
#78
the most simple way that I could always explain the Trinity to my children and to new believers was to use the egg.....there isn't any theology involved but for a "simple" understanding I feel it is effective....you have one egg....if you break the egg, it becomes 3 seperate parts.....the egg white, the egg yolk & the egg shell.....it is still one egg but yet can be seperated into three different parts....like I said, it isn't the greatest theology you will ever hear, but, it is a simple explaination.....God bless....
 
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VansRComfy11

Guest
#79
#79
ZACK, the example I used to hear years ago was that the Trinity was like water - made up of all the same components but in 3 distinctly different 'forms': solid (the Father), liquid (the Son), and steam (the Holy Spirit). And so it is with the Holy Trinity - Father (Heavenly), Son (Earthly), and the Holy Spirit (Spiritually). All 3 worked together to undo the Fall of Man and bring about an end to our captivity in sin. God bless you and your hunger for Godly knowledge and understanding! You'll be rewarded one day if you haven't already been. And no question is ever too dumb to ask. We all wanna get to the same place eventually. ;)
 
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