Signs as tools of wondering?

[garee]

Post #53 is after the post in which you mentioned the other commandments. You can't refer to something, then later legitimately claim you were referring to something else.

That was in respect to showing not everything is done in parables. Post 49# .

Morals laws do not need parables to give the understanding of faith . Unlike the fourth commandment. Different parables in regard to the shadow of rest in both the Exodus and Deuteronomy rendering of the 10 commandments. Why do you think the reasoning was done in a parable?

 

[Dino246]

That was in respect to showing not everything is done in parables. Post 49# .

Which I have been telling you for months, and you keep saying, "Without parables, Christ spoke not". Now are you agreeing with me?

Morals laws do not need parables to give the understanding of faith .

Neither do ceremonial laws.

Unlike the fourth commandment. Different parables in regard to the shadow of rest in both the Exodus and Deuteronomy rendering of the 10 commandments. Why do you think the reasoning was done in a parable?

I don't; it's not a parable.

Garee, there are (at least) three problems that undermine your your reasoning.

Firstly, you do not have a sufficient understanding of written English. You are unable to express your thoughts clearly, coherently, and succinctly, and you often misunderstand what others have written. At times you misinterpret Scripture because of this. Take a class.

Secondly, you have an incorrect understanding of the word, "parable". It has a limited meaning, and definitely does not encompass all non-literal language. A parable is a non-literal story in which a lesson is taught using human characters. A fable, for example, is a different kind of non-literal story in which a lesson is taught using non-human characters. There are many other kinds of non-literal language.

Thirdly, you simply do not have a biblically sound understanding of the purpose of parables. Parables don't "give the understanding of faith". I've shown the Scripture to prove that repeatedly. Until you reject your wrong ideas and accept what Scripture plainly tells you about parables, you will remain misguided.

 

[garee]

="Dino246, post: 4374054, member: 223333"]Which I have been telling you for months, and you keep saying, "Without parables, Christ spoke not". Now are you agreeing with me?

Neither do ceremonial laws.

Literal laws do not need parables. They have circular or a sealed reasoning . Thou shall not because God said it. Why did he say because he is God who is of mind one mind and always does what so ever his soul pleases. . and can fulfill what he said . Like mark my word I change not.

God did not hide the meaning of literal law .

The ceremonial fourth is used as a parable. look at the two different renderings

Garee, there are (at least) three problems that undermine your your reasoning.

Secondly, you have an incorrect understanding of the word, "parable". It has a limited meaning, and definitely does not encompass all non-literal language. A parable is a non-literal story in which a lesson is taught using human characters. A fable, for example, is a different kind of non-literal story in which a lesson is taught using non-human characters. There are many other kinds of non-literal language.

I don't; it's not a parable.

He literally using the things seen the temporal the historically true to give us the unseen eternal understanding.

The 20/20 prescription in 2020 same one as last year.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Thirdly, you simply do not have a biblically sound understanding of the purpose of parables. Parables don't "give the understanding of faith". I've shown the Scripture to prove that repeatedly. Until you reject your wrong ideas and accept what Scripture plainly tells you about parables, you will remain misguided. I have demonstrated more than once how they teach us to walk by faith and not by sight the temporal. .

I can offer it again how they teach us to walk after the unseen things of God. . In a series of historically true parables (Luke 9) Christ purposely hid the gospel understanding in order to teach them how to walk after the unseen eternal things of God. They wondered, wondered and wondered never coming to the end of faith. . . understanding the parables.
While wondering doubting he spoke another .This time the disciples took a vote as who is the Greatest Top Dog? They must of though Jesus needed a mental heath advisor . When finished with the series .He informed them they knew not what manner of spirit they were of .

I say faithless . What would be you opinion?

Luke 9: 44-46 Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.

Luke 9: 55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

You can ask yourself the same question. What manner of spirit are you of? The Spirit of Christ that works in our bodies of death or self edifying ?

 

[Dino246]

Literal laws do not need parables. They have circular or a sealed reasoning .

You really do not understand the concept of "circular reasoning".

The ceremonial fourth is used as a parable.

It's not a parable.

I can offer it again how they teach us to walk after the unseen things of God. . In a series of historically true parables (Luke 9) Christ purposely hid the gospel understanding in order to teach them how to walk after the unseen eternal things of God.

No, the reason for parables is right there in the plain text. Jesus spoke "in parables so that 'Seeing, they may not see, and hearing, they may not hear'" (Luke 8:10).

 

[garee]

No, the reason for parables is right there in the plain text. Jesus spoke "in parables so that 'Seeing, they may not see, and hearing, they may not hear'" (Luke 8:10).

Exactly Dino he hid the understanding to teach them how to walk by faith the unseen eternal .

On one occasion while they still wondered and doubted he spoke another. Hiding the understanding. They played who is the greatest . They must of thought Jesus went off the deep end speaking in parables not giving the the understanding of faith.

When he finished the series of parables he rebuked them and informed them they had no idea of what they were talking about .

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Dino what manner of spirit was he referring to ? Those who literalize the spiritual understanding hid in parables?

 

[Dino246]

Exactly Dino he hid the understanding to teach them how to walk by faith the unseen eternal .

The text says nothing whatsoever about "teaching them how to walk by faith the unseen eternal".

When he finished the series of parables he rebuked them and informed them they had no idea of what they were talking about .

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Dino what manner of spirit was he referring to ? Those who literalize the spiritual understanding hid in parables?

Clearly not. That's your invention, not Jesus' intention.

 

[garee]

The text says nothing whatsoever about "teaching them how to walk by faith the unseen eternal".


Clearly not. That's your invention, not Jesus' intention.

What does the parable teach about faith ? What manner of spirit where they of if not faithless?

 

[Dino246]

What does the parable teach about faith ? What manner of spirit where they of if not faithless?

There is no parable recorded in Luke 9.

 

[garee]

There is no parable recorded in Luke 9.

The whole lot is hidden in Luke 9 just under the surfaced in a paragraph spacing them . A pearl here another from there .Without them he spoke not

One is hid in the feeding of the five thousand and 2 loaves of bread and five fish .Or another when Moses and Elias: where used to represent the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) the power of God's word.

Another

LUKE9 :41-42 And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither. And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

another parable
LUKE9 :45-6 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.

They thought Jesus went of the deep end. he gave them the proper interpretation

Then again not mixing faith in what they see and hear .

LUKE9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

The another hiding the spiritual unseen understanding .They desired fire come down and consume them "out of sight out of mind". Out of faith needed to understand the meaning

LUKE9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

LUKE9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

What manner of spirit would you say they had or did not have ? The lack of the spirit of faith? Christ's that works in us who are given the unseen understanding of God.

No parables???? or you missed one or seven

 

[Dino246]

The whole lot is hidden in Luke 9 just under the surfaced in a paragraph spacing them . A pearl here another from there .Without them he spoke not

Refuted repeatedly.

One is hid in the feeding of the five thousand and 2 loaves of bread and five fish .Or another when Moses and Elias: where used to represent the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) the power of God's word.

It's not a parable.

Another

LUKE9 :41-42 And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither. And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

Again, not a parable.

another parable
LUKE9 :45-6 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.

You completely missed the context of this non-parable.

They thought Jesus went of the deep end. he gave them the proper interpretation

He spoke plainly to them, not in parables.

LUKE9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Definitely not a parable.

The another hiding the spiritual unseen understanding .They desired fire come down and consume them "out of sight out of mind". Out of faith needed to understand the meaning

LUKE9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

LUKE9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

What manner of spirit would you say they had or did not have ? The lack of the spirit of faith? Christ's that works in us who are given the unseen understanding of God.

Yada yada yada. Still no parables.

No parables???? or you missed one or seven

I didn't miss any, because there aren't any to miss.

 

[garee]

Refuted repeatedly.


It's not a parable.


Again, not a parable.


You completely missed the context of this non-parable.


He spoke plainly to them, not in parables.


Definitely not a parable.


Yada yada yada. Still no parables.


I didn't miss any, because there aren't any to miss.

No parables. .???


So then Jesus missed his calling and he should of commanded fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? Was he following a lying wonder?

 

[Benadam]

Moral laws do not use parables to invent esoteric bafflegab

Why literalize the unseen spiritual understanding in ceremonial laws? What's the living hope in doing so? Not interested in the mysteries hid in parables?

The Sabbath is a two part commandment #1-Moral. A day set aside to rest with God. Cannot be changed.
#2-Ceremonial. The particular day God chose is ceremonial law. Can be changed.

No other commandment is two part.

Garee, it seems you are confusing signs with types. Types are shadows .
Signs indicate spiritual realities that are in the moment they are seen.

Types foreshadow what is to come. They are a 'type' because they share a likeness to , better said, are in part what is coming to fulfilment whole.
The Lamb of God is slaughtered at every passover by the Jews was a type of Suffering Savior yet to come.
Signs validate spiritual realities that are happening.

 

[garee]

The Sabbath is a two part commandment #1-Moral. A day set aside to rest with God. Cannot be changed.
#2-Ceremonial. The particular day God chose is ceremonial law. Can be changed.

No other commandment is two part.

Garee, it seems you are confusing signs with types. Types are shadows .
Signs indicate spiritual realities that are in the moment they are seen.

Types foreshadow what is to come. They are a 'type' because they share a likeness to , better said, are in part what is coming to fulfilment whole.

The Lamb of God is slaughtered at every passover by the Jews was a type of Suffering Savior yet to come.
Signs validate spiritual realities that are happening.

Signs follow Like ."You have just left the city of Milwaukee's limits" .

The fourth is a ceremonial shadow. It does not bring us closer or cause a distance a carnal work that could never make perfect the conscience of mankind.. Different reasoning in parables by the two different rendering of the ten commandments.. The Exodus account in respect to the last day .While the Deuteronomy account from the first day . Both ending in the same rest.

Moral law do not need reasoning through parables. The shadow is reserved for the ceremonial, a sign to the unbelieving word world.

Signs unseen as metaphors follow prophecy . (drink poison) to represent false prophecy will not harm. declaring the word of God the new tongue, the gospel it cast out lying spirits, raising the dead a picture of the unseen conversion as to those who have become born again.

The Sabbath is two days set aside. Saturday the last day the time of preparation the first part of the weekend sabbath Sunday the first day the day we they can come out and share that which was prepared on the last day.

The last and the first working to symbolize one rest the substance of the shadow( Hebrew 4:1-4)

Exodus 12:16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, (two days) save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

In that way we can rest doing the will yoked with Christ on both days. The weekend sabbath (shadow)

 

[Dino246]

Signs follow Like ."You have just left the city of Milwaukee's limits" .

There is only one place in Scripture where the idea that "signs follow" is presented: Mark 16. That is certainly not exhaustive, and it doesn't actually say, "Signs follow." Rather, it says, "These signs shall follow them that believe..."

It is simply wrongheaded to take that single statement, extract two words from it, and apply it to every sign recorded in Scripture.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The bible tells us that Jews look for signs and wonders. The apostles produced many signs and wonders after pentecost because their ministry was TO THE JEWS. The gospel was not directed to Gentiles until Paul was appointed as the apostle to the Gentiles. Acts 9:15

 

[garee]

The bible tells us that Jews look for signs and wonders. The apostles produced many signs and wonders after pentecost because their ministry was TO THE JEWS. The gospel was not directed to Gentiles until Paul was appointed as the apostle to the Gentiles. Acts 9:15

I would offer. The ministry is to whoever believes according to the faith that comes from hearing God not seen. Not after the flesh and blood of corruptible mankind..

The sign as a wonder found in Joel was fulfilled in respect to all nations . No new signs as wonders are offered .Jesus said its a evil generation, natural unconverted mankind that does seek after them. Beleive that are given the faith of Christ seek after prophecy the word of God. It takes away wondering doubting.

Acts 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

It also followed the sign of drunkards that seek after signs as lying wonder rather than signs used as metaphors that follow one has believed having exercised the faith that comes from hearing God not seen .The pot calling the kettle black! calling the believers drunkards.

Isaiah 28: 1 Look at Samaria!
The drunks of Ephraim are proud of that city.
It sits on a hill with a rich valley around it.
The Samarians think their city is a beautiful crown of flowers.
But they are drunk with wine,
and this “beautiful crown” is just a dying plant.

Isaiah 28:9-12 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? 10 He speaks to us as though we were babies:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”[b]
So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.

In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”

But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

1Corithian 14 repeats the law of those who after all the waning yet continue to mock God making a senseless noise and falling back slain in the spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:21-22 In the law (Isaiah 28) it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[garee]

There is only one place in Scripture where the idea that "signs follow" is presented: Mark 16. That is certainly not exhaustive, and it doesn't actually say, "Signs follow." Rather, it says, "These signs shall follow them that believe..."

It is simply wrongheaded to take that single statement, extract two words from it, and apply it to every sign recorded in Scripture.

Not just signs. Every sign as a wonder a source of doubt. . The last sign as a wonder was given, the sign of Jonas. It was fulfilled.

Not just signs like the sign of the times.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I would offer. The ministry is to whoever believes according to the faith that comes from hearing God not seen. Not after the flesh and blood of corruptible mankind..

The sign as a wonder found in Joel was fulfilled in respect to all nations . No new signs as wonders are offered .Jesus said its a evil generation, natural unconverted mankind that does seek after them. Beleive that are given the faith of Christ seek after prophecy the word of God. It takes away wondering doubting.

Acts 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

It also followed the sign of drunkards that seek after signs as lying wonder rather than signs used as metaphors that follow one has believed having exercised the faith that comes from hearing God not seen .The pot calling the kettle black! calling the believers drunkards.

Isaiah 28: 1 Look at Samaria!
The drunks of Ephraim are proud of that city.
It sits on a hill with a rich valley around it.
The Samarians think their city is a beautiful crown of flowers.
But they are drunk with wine,
and this “beautiful crown” is just a dying plant.

Isaiah 28:9-12 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? 10 He speaks to us as though we were babies:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”[b]
So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.

In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”

But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

1Corithian 14 repeats the law of those who after all the waning yet continue to mock God making a senseless noise and falling back slain in the spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:21-22 In the law (Isaiah 28) it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

I like you but.....You missed my point, Garee. Also I know my bible, so your VERY LONG refutation was superfluous. Rightly divide the word, what happened before the cross to what happened after the cross......in Acts, it is before Paul was sent to the Gentiles and after. That some gentiles may have been involved is possible and probable, but the "official" opening of the gospel to them was with Paul's mission. Like Rahab, who was not a Jew, yet received God's truth; His grace falls where it will.

Also I am a "cessationist" so your post about sign gifts was noted but was not news to me but I understand you wanted to convey some food for thought.

 

[Dino246]

Not just signs. Every sign as a wonder a source of doubt. . The last sign as a wonder was given, the sign of Jonas. It was fulfilled.

Not just signs like the sign of the times.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

Nothing in Scripture says that the sign of Jonah was "the last sign". In fact, Scripture tells us clearly that there will be later signs.

 

[garee]

Nothing in Scripture says that the sign of Jonah was "the last sign". In fact, Scripture tells us clearly that there will be later signs.

.
Not signs as wonders that can only lead to doubt as lying wonders It those of a evil generation that does seeks after wondering . The last was the sign and wonder was of Jonas. Jesus fulfilled it.

Sign of times yes .Nothing to wonder about .Things going on just as in the days of Noah earthquakes, rumors of war people getting married etc.