Signs as tools of wondering?
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Scripture is purdy clear.
Signs are good. They signify a matter of faith that is true.
Requiring a sign if not given is a sin Because we aren't living up to the faith expected of us as one receiving revelation.
Satan will produce lying signs to deceive. They signify a matter of faith that isn't true. Those are evil.
Signs are good. They signify a matter of faith that is true.
Requiring a sign if not given is a sin Because we aren't living up to the faith expected of us as one receiving revelation.
Satan will produce lying signs to deceive. They signify a matter of faith that isn't true. Those are evil.
We are to watch for the signs the Lord tells us are coming upon the whole world (rampant chaos, associated with the plagues of a disintegrating environment) so that we may prepare ourselves knowing that the Lord is at the doors.
The lying signs we are to beware of are those the beast's system shall produce, with technological wonders that will have the whole faithless world who are not written in the lambs book of life, in adoration of.
The lying signs we are to beware of are those the beast's system shall produce, with technological wonders that will have the whole faithless world who are not written in the lambs book of life, in adoration of.
In agreement. God tells us the signs to watch for, and He does so in order that the believer may be prepared. And as you state, this is a matter of faith ... and does not produce doubt in the believer.
Even the lying signs result in faith in the believer because the believer has been told what to watch for and when the lying sign occurs, the believer draws close to God and rests in His shelter ... again, a matter of faith.
Even the lying signs result in faith in the believer because the believer has been told what to watch for and when the lying sign occurs, the believer draws close to God and rests in His shelter ... again, a matter of faith.
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Thanks for the reply I can try..
Signs of the times, not wonders of the times as lying wonders.
Big difference between sign and Sign and wonders .Signs that make a person wonder .And therefore they do not believe. prophecy the word of a sure faith is for those who believe. No need to wonder according to
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
That sign was fulfilled in the Son of man, Jesus. Took away the wondering
Evil generation is simply uncovered mankind .They have no born again faith coming from God by which they they could please Him not seen. The simply wonder through a lying sign to another lying sign . In their wondering saying; "is there a God?" It exposés their source of beleive always wondering never coming to a end of faith. Out of sight out of mind foundation of Paganism
Matthew 24:36-38 King James Version (KJV) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Just as in the day of Noah wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes all over the corrupted dying creation
The disciples sought after as sign and wonder .There was no sign given to wonder after or seek after. They asked what would be the sign not signs plural .
The sign is obvious walk by the faith that comes from hearing God.it works in us to both will and empower us to perform it.
You could say 7 signs of sorrow
Mathew 24:3-8 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name,(1) saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars (2) and rumours of wars:(3) see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: (4) and there shall be famines,(5) and pestilences,(6) and earthquakes, in divers places.(7)All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Signs of the times, not wonders of the times as lying wonders.
Big difference between sign and Sign and wonders .Signs that make a person wonder .And therefore they do not believe. prophecy the word of a sure faith is for those who believe. No need to wonder according to
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
That sign was fulfilled in the Son of man, Jesus. Took away the wondering
Evil generation is simply uncovered mankind .They have no born again faith coming from God by which they they could please Him not seen. The simply wonder through a lying sign to another lying sign . In their wondering saying; "is there a God?" It exposés their source of beleive always wondering never coming to a end of faith. Out of sight out of mind foundation of Paganism
Matthew 24:36-38 King James Version (KJV) But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Just as in the day of Noah wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes all over the corrupted dying creation
The disciples sought after as sign and wonder .There was no sign given to wonder after or seek after. They asked what would be the sign not signs plural .
The sign is obvious walk by the faith that comes from hearing God.it works in us to both will and empower us to perform it.
You could say 7 signs of sorrow
Mathew 24:3-8 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name,(1) saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars (2) and rumours of wars:(3) see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: (4) and there shall be famines,(5) and pestilences,(6) and earthquakes, in divers places.(7)All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Seeking signs rather than walking by the faith as it is written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura)?
Does the Catholic sect have a legion of mystics the seek after a sign and wonder. Like the assumed miracle in the sun Miracle of Fátima . Or the worker with a familiar spirit Padre Pio called a patron saint many lying signs .
Everyone is a lying wonder that pew sitters (non venerable.)that must seek the approval of venerated fathers are subject to lying sign to wonder after..
Does the Catholic sect have a legion of mystics the seek after a sign and wonder. Like the assumed miracle in the sun Miracle of Fátima . Or the worker with a familiar spirit Padre Pio called a patron saint many lying signs .
Everyone is a lying wonder that pew sitters (non venerable.)that must seek the approval of venerated fathers are subject to lying sign to wonder after..
They are the same thing. The signs performed by Jesus pointed to His divinity and His personal fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy. The signs He spoke of in Matthew 24 (and other places) point to the end of the age. Both are confirmatory in that they point to prophecy being fulfilled.
Do you understand the significant difference in meaning between the noun "wonder" as in "an unusual event that causes awe and marvelling" and the verb "wonder" as in "consider, think, guess, or speculate"? The biblical phrase, "signs and wonders," is using the first sense, not the second. Confuse the two, and you will be misguided. Neither is closely associated with "doubting".
The sign was indeed fulfilled with Jesus' resurrection, but I don't see how it "took away the wondering". I think you just made that up.
No, the evil generation is not "simply uncovered mankind". It was that specific generation in which Jesus lived. He was speaking of the Jews, and specifically the Jewish leaders, who were alive when He was on earth.
By the way, it's not the foundation of paganism. That's another situation entirely, and not one for this thread.
Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, not to the disciples. The Pharisees, not the disciples, wanted a sign. Goodness, man, read the text more carefully!
"Walk by faith..." is not a sign, but rather a practice. Jesus never condemned those who believed after seeing a sign. He condemned those whom He knew would not believe even if they did see a sign.
Do you understand the significant difference in meaning between the noun "wonder" as in "an unusual event that causes awe and marvelling" and the verb "wonder" as in "consider, think, guess, or speculate"? The biblical phrase, "signs and wonders," is using the first sense, not the second. Confuse the two, and you will be misguided. Neither is closely associated with "doubting".
The sign was indeed fulfilled with Jesus' resurrection, but I don't see how it "took away the wondering". I think you just made that up.
No, the evil generation is not "simply uncovered mankind". It was that specific generation in which Jesus lived. He was speaking of the Jews, and specifically the Jewish leaders, who were alive when He was on earth.
By the way, it's not the foundation of paganism. That's another situation entirely, and not one for this thread.
Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, not to the disciples. The Pharisees, not the disciples, wanted a sign. Goodness, man, read the text more carefully!
"Walk by faith..." is not a sign, but rather a practice. Jesus never condemned those who believed after seeing a sign. He condemned those whom He knew would not believe even if they did see a sign.
hahahaha ... that's a GREAT!!! picture to hold. 
Time for the church to grow up ... quit being deceived by the adversary ... walk out, strong in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the power of His might ... whole armor of God in order that we may stand and withstand. Resist the devil and he will flee!!!
Time for the church to grow up ... quit being deceived by the adversary ... walk out, strong in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the power of His might ... whole armor of God in order that we may stand and withstand. Resist the devil and he will flee!!!
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hahahaha ... that's a GREAT!!! picture to hold.
Time for the church to grow up ... quit being deceived by the adversary ... walk out, strong in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the power of His might ... whole armor of God in order that we may stand and withstand. Resist the devil and he will flee!!!
Where is the Scripture reference which indicates there were "wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes all over the corrupted dying creation" in days of Noah? Jesus clearly states as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark - Matt 24:28.
The wars and rumours of wars ... famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places of Matt 24:6-7 refers to what Jesus tells us are the beginning of sorrows. When we hear about the wars and rumors of wars, etc., Jesus tells us all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet (Matt 24:6) and that these things are the beginning of sorrows (Matt 24:8).
The disciples asked 3 questions - when shall these things (plural) be ... what shall be the sign of thy coming ... and the end of the world ... so, yes, signs (plural ... the sign of His coming and the sign of the end of the world).
Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
In Matthew 23:13-36, Jesus spoke very harshly to the scribes and pharisees (the "woes" to them).
In Matthew 24:1-2, Jesus spoke to his disciples and told them about the destruction of the temple. Jesus then went to the Mount of Olives and His disciples came to Him. According to Mark 13:3, only Peter, James, John and Andrew went with Jesus and spoke to Him privately and asked Jesus 3 questions:
Jesus did not berate them for asking about signs. Jesus answered their questions.
And, yes, I am in agreement with you that there are not many "signs" left because we are in the last days (Acts 2:17; 2 Tim 3:1; 1 Peter 5:1, 20; 2 Peter 3:3; 1 John 2:18, Jude 1:8) and most "signs" spoken of in Scripture have already come to pass. However, just because we are in the last days does not mean there are no signs left to come. Scripture tells us there are signs to come and we can know from Scripture what these signs are. Seeking out what Scripture tells us does not cause "doubt" or "wondering" ... what it means is that we are workmen who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).
You need to re-think your understanding concerning God's purpose for telling us about signs, garee.
The wars and rumours of wars ... famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places of Matt 24:6-7 refers to what Jesus tells us are the beginning of sorrows. When we hear about the wars and rumors of wars, etc., Jesus tells us all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet (Matt 24:6) and that these things are the beginning of sorrows (Matt 24:8).
The disciples asked 3 questions - when shall these things (plural) be ... what shall be the sign of thy coming ... and the end of the world ... so, yes, signs (plural ... the sign of His coming and the sign of the end of the world).
Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
In Matthew 23:13-36, Jesus spoke very harshly to the scribes and pharisees (the "woes" to them).
In Matthew 24:1-2, Jesus spoke to his disciples and told them about the destruction of the temple. Jesus then went to the Mount of Olives and His disciples came to Him. According to Mark 13:3, only Peter, James, John and Andrew went with Jesus and spoke to Him privately and asked Jesus 3 questions:
when shall these things be?
what shall be the sign of thy coming
and of the end of the world?
Jesus did not berate them for asking about signs. Jesus answered their questions.
And, yes, I am in agreement with you that there are not many "signs" left because we are in the last days (Acts 2:17; 2 Tim 3:1; 1 Peter 5:1, 20; 2 Peter 3:3; 1 John 2:18, Jude 1:8) and most "signs" spoken of in Scripture have already come to pass. However, just because we are in the last days does not mean there are no signs left to come. Scripture tells us there are signs to come and we can know from Scripture what these signs are. Seeking out what Scripture tells us does not cause "doubt" or "wondering" ... what it means is that we are workmen who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).
You need to re-think your understanding concerning God's purpose for telling us about signs, garee.
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There has been all of those signs of the times that began from the first day God corrupted this creation. Wars , earthquakes, famine etc .
Flesh and blood against flesh and blood. Spiritual warfare . It began with Cain and Able. No sign is given of the end last day to wonder about. We walk by faith the eternal not seen just as Abel the first apostle and martyr.. God does not number people or days or how many people make up the 144.000 metptphor . We are to wonder not. But rather we are to believe prophecy, the surety. Surely you will die.
Its an evil faithless generation that seeks after a sign rather than walking by faith the unseen eternal
Yes, he gave them the signs of the times. Things going on as they have from the first day of corruption when God corrupted the first creation.
Big difference between signs of the times. and understanding by faith .No dates, that cause a person to wonder, no one knows but the father . Like how long? How many. What will it look like. a tattoo or a electron device as literal mark .How many people. Who will be the man of sin the antichrist? they have already ben revealed.
Things to wonder about that only provide doubt or uncertainty and not faith "belief". Outward signs that some called a evil generation they seek after. Those who believe not prophecy
That can be seen in the fact that history repeats itself .At the end of any time period moral issues become the reforming re-alignment to the principles of the Bible. The rise and fall of any nation
Its an evil faithless generation that seeks after a sign to wonder and doubt about. We walk by faith the unseen eternal. Not after the three avenues of the father of lies. The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, and the pride of this life.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
The last sign as a wonder was fulfilled at the cross. The sign of Jonas. Do we need more? For what purpose? To wonder which apposes belief and creates doubt?
We must be careful how we hear or say we hear God by faith, the unseen eternal.
The sign of Jonas that caused men to wonder was fulfilled at the cross .
Signals of tribulation continue as prophecy . Prophecy is not a sign tool to wonders after . Prophecy, as it is written conveys faith coming from God. .It takes away wondering.
It becomes a sign of tribulation those who do seek after wonders and not prophecy .
1 Corinthains 4: 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Can't hear prophecy when wondering.
The sign of Jonas that caused men to wonder was fulfilled at the cross .
Signals of tribulation continue as prophecy . Prophecy is not a sign tool to wonders after . Prophecy, as it is written conveys faith coming from God. .It takes away wondering.
It becomes a sign of tribulation those who do seek after wonders and not prophecy .
1 Corinthains 4: 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Can't hear prophecy when wondering.
1. I said nothing about "wondering" As an Amillinist I am past wondering, I already KNOW.
2. You misquoted scripture.......1 Cor 4:21 doe not say what you "quoted" here,
it says v21 "What do you desire? Shall I come to you with a rod or with love and a spirit of gentleness?"
That is the entirety of that verse.
3. AND..prophecy about Christ was in Isaiah, as well as Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and several of the minor prophets that came AFTER Jonah. So Jonah's was not the last. Nor the first if you go back to Genesis {et all}.
Looks like YOU are the one who needs to be careful.
I actually did not understand your rebuttal to my post, you went on quite lenghy about signs and wonders which were so out of context they were on another planet. All I had said was that you erred when you said Jonah was the last to prophet about Christ.
2. You misquoted scripture.......1 Cor 4:21 doe not say what you "quoted" here,
it says v21 "What do you desire? Shall I come to you with a rod or with love and a spirit of gentleness?"
That is the entirety of that verse.
3. AND..prophecy about Christ was in Isaiah, as well as Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and several of the minor prophets that came AFTER Jonah. So Jonah's was not the last. Nor the first if you go back to Genesis {et all}.
Looks like YOU are the one who needs to be careful.
I actually did not understand your rebuttal to my post, you went on quite lenghy about signs and wonders which were so out of context they were on another planet. All I had said was that you erred when you said Jonah was the last to prophet about Christ.
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1. I said nothing about "wondering" As an I am past wondering, I already KNOW.
2. You misquoted scripture.......1 Cor 4:21 doe not say what you "quoted" here,
it says v21 "What do you desire? Shall I come to you with a rod or with love and a spirit of gentleness?"
That is the entirety of that verse.
3. AND..prophecy about Christ was in Isaiah, as well as Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and several of the minor prophets that came AFTER Jonah. So Jonah's was not the last. Nor the first if you go back to Genesis {et all}.
Looks like YOU are the one who needs to be careful.
I actually did not understand your rebuttal to my post, you went on quite lenghy about signs and wonders which were so out of context they were on another planet. All I had said was that you erred when you said Jonah was the last to prophet about Christ.
2. You misquoted scripture.......1 Cor 4:21 doe not say what you "quoted" here,
it says v21 "What do you desire? Shall I come to you with a rod or with love and a spirit of gentleness?"
That is the entirety of that verse.
3. AND..prophecy about Christ was in Isaiah, as well as Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and several of the minor prophets that came AFTER Jonah. So Jonah's was not the last. Nor the first if you go back to Genesis {et all}.
Looks like YOU are the one who needs to be careful.
I actually did not understand your rebuttal to my post, you went on quite lenghy about signs and wonders which were so out of context they were on another planet. All I had said was that you erred when you said Jonah was the last to prophet about Christ.
Jonas was last sign as a wonder given.
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Jesus is referring to those Jews who were mocking him and testing him v14-16 (much like our beloved TROLLS today) they wanted a sign that His words were true, but He was not going to give them a sign because they already had the sign of Jonah and did not believe that one. Jews would know about the story of Jonah, but like today with a lot of people, they think it a biblical fairy tale.
CONTEXT, sir, CONTEXT!
CONTEXT, sir, CONTEXT!
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It's an "evil faithless generation" that changes Scripture in order to support a doctrine not contained in Scripture.
I note you did not provide Scripture which supports your claim that there were "wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes all over the corrupted dying creation" in days of Noah.
Signs Jesus told the disciples about: Matt 24:15; Matt 24:30; Matt 24:33.
What about the "evil faithless generation" that upholds a doctrine not contained in Scripture, even after being corrected numerous times with numerous Scripture which reveals that they are in error? That, also, is a "sign" ...
God is the One Who gives the signs. That you do not want God to continue to give signs does not mean God does as you desire. God has a reason for everything He does. And God says there will be further signs. Your denial will not stop God from working the signs.
Here are some signs and wonders worked in the book of Acts after the "sign of Jonas":
Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Acts 14:3 Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
I note you did not provide Scripture which supports your claim that there were "wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes all over the corrupted dying creation" in days of Noah.
Signs Jesus told the disciples about: Matt 24:15; Matt 24:30; Matt 24:33.
What about the "evil faithless generation" that upholds a doctrine not contained in Scripture, even after being corrected numerous times with numerous Scripture which reveals that they are in error? That, also, is a "sign" ...
God is the One Who gives the signs. That you do not want God to continue to give signs does not mean God does as you desire. God has a reason for everything He does. And God says there will be further signs. Your denial will not stop God from working the signs.
Here are some signs and wonders worked in the book of Acts after the "sign of Jonas":
Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Acts 14:3 Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Its there in the context of the bible . Did you mix faith? No sign as a wonder, wonder. . . the doubt producer, was offered.
Yes signs of the times.
The doctrine is there .Some are stuck wondering rather than searching out the signified understanding given in parables.
Not contained or as a literalist that refuses to search our the signified gospel understanding of the parables. They refuse to hear by mixing faith according to the prescription.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Yes, they in Acts 15 wondered and kept silent .Some of the sign and lying wonder seekers made the apostles into gods in the likeness of men .This shows they did not mix faith "the eternal" in what they did see and hear.."the temporal" (2 Corinthians 4:18)
Prophecy as it is written is for those who believe or exercise faith that works in them . Signs for the rebellious.
Acts14: 11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men
Signs that work after the work of Christ faith as a labor of his love. Not a outward sign that men seek after, the evil faithless generation .(out of sight out of mind)
No faith needed in sign and wonders seekers. Faith as it is written does works in the believer to both will and perform the good pleasure of God, not seen used as metaphors. Drink poison or hear the false doctrines of men and not harm the lies. They speak with their new born again tongue the gospel etc.
Believers have no need to seek after lying wonders just to wonder, wonder and doubt not coming to belief, the end of faith. Believers receive the end of their new born again faith from the beginning..
learn how to mix faith and receive the gospel understanding.
Hebrews 4 King James Version (KJV) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.