Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)

[reneweddaybyday]

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all

So now you're claiming Paul spoke in tongues in a manner not the same as the apostles? And thanked God he did so???

What is so hard to understand? You have a misconception of tongues in the NT.

That I do not agree with your interpretation of Scripture as it relates to the manifestation of the Spirit does not mean I "have a misconception of tongues in the NT."

ou have no frame of reference to determine whether or not my prayer life is "sweaty enough" for you. God hears my prayers and He is all that matters in that regard. Please refrain from personal comment concerning my prayer life. Thank you.

I have only what you make public. I find no example of biblical prayer that is done without knowledge. Prayer is described as a labor.

Again, as you are wholly unfamiliar with my prayer life, you have no opinion as to the extent of my "labor".

Please provide the post wherein I said Paul taught "against the wisdom of the OT". Thank you.

You imply such when you praise prayer without knowledge.

you cannot provide the post but your implication is that I have done as you stated.


got it : /

 

[wolfwint]

Great post, Ben.

I just wish you could see that tongues is not a gift. It is one of the nine manifestation of the singular gift of the Holy Spirit. If a person has the gift, he is has the ability to manifest that gift. This is why Paul by revelation could say "I want all of you to speak in tongues" (1 Cor 14:5).

Tongues is not a gift that is given to some Christians but not to others. The gift of Holy Spirit has been given to EVERY Christian, and every Christian has the ability to manifest that gift (1 Cor 12:7).

Most Christians do not understand what tongues is, think it's "weird", they're afraid of doing it wrong, looking silly, etc.

Shrume, you ignore scripture, if you claim that all christians have the ability to speak in tongues. I am shure that the Holy Spirit gives a believer a spirituell gift. In this case the One who receives this gift will know that. Thats my expierience. It makes no sense that the Holy Spirit gives a gift and the beliver dont know it. Maby you grow up among pentecostals. Non of the christians I personell know speaking in tongues. I know that the church I belong teaches doctrine from Willow creek, but non of my church is speaking in tongues.

 

[Dino246]

Pure conjecture on your part.

...

1 Cor 13:8 Knowledge ceased.

Exactly.

You misquoted the verse. It does not say, "knowledge ceased" or anything of the sort. It says, "knowledge will cease" (emphasis added). If you are asserting that this has already happened, I must ask, by what means did you come to have this knowledge?

In case you miss the obvious, you can't have knowledge if knowledge has ceased.

As to your comment that Paul was correcting, not condoning, why would he give clear instructions and warn against forbidding to speak in tongues if he was not condoning the action? Again, your view on the matter doesn't hold water.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yet you did not comment in 1 Corinthians 7:11 for why and when those manifestations of the Spirit was to come; to profit the body of Christ as in "withal" and not individually as the OP is contending.

I believe you are speaking of 1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation is given to every man to profit withal.

As 1 Cor 14:4 states, he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself ...

The believer is built up (edified). That is what Scripture says. That is what Scripture means.

Would you not agree that the believer being built up benefits the whole body of Christ?

I stated in Post #242 and I reiterate here:

How is my being edified (built up) not benefitting the church? Don't you want me strong and vibrant?

No one has a problem with a person eating good, nutritious food in order to maintain his/her physical body.

No one has a problem with a person who works out in order to strengthen his/her physical body.

No one has a problem with a believer who studies Scripture in order to remain mentally strong in the face of the world we live in.

But when it comes to a person being edified through speaking in tongues in his/her private prayer life, some people have a problem with that.

I just don't understand why some believers have a problem with that aspect of speaking in tongues.​

Are you saying that every believer has the gift of the Spirit at salvation when they are born again where the Holy Spirit can energize the gift of the Holy Spirit so they can pray in tongues?. If so, isn't that not like saying that all believers can pray in tongues, but not every one will realize this because it is whenever the Holy Spirit energize that gift of the Spirit?

Yes. Every born again one receives the gift of holy spirit.

Every born again one may not speak in tongues (or utilize any other manifestation shown in 1 Cor 12:8-10).

In 1 Cor 12:30 we read have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

And we know the answer to the question is "no".

We all have strengths and weaknesses. Each individual believer is to work together with other believers and together we all function as one body.

There is no profit to individuals when they cannot know what that tongue did to benefit them privately

Completely contrary to what is written in 1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself.

The believer is edified when he/she speaks in tongues.

It does not matter that you do not agree. God still says the believer is edified.

It does not matter that you do not believe that having individual members of Christ's body edified is beneficial to the whole. God still says the believer is edified and that benefits the whole body.

Again, 1 Cor 14:39 is written to you: forbid not to speak with tongues.

 

[shrume]

Shrume, you ignore scripture, if you claim that all christians have the ability to speak in tongues.

1 Cor 12:
7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I am shure that the Holy Spirit gives a believer a spirituell gift.

The Holy Spirit IS the gift, and that gift can be manifested in nine different ways.

In this case the One who receives this gift will know that.

Christians should know that they have received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Thats my expierience.

Experience is no guarantee for truth.

It makes no sense that the Holy Spirit gives a gift and the beliver dont know it.

If people are not taught correctly, it makes perfect sense.

Maby you grow up among pentecostals.

Nope. I was raised in a Presbyterian church.

Non of the christians I personell know speaking in tongues. I know that the church I belong teaches doctrine from Willow creek, but non of my church is speaking in tongues.

I'm sorry.

 

[shrume]

Yes. Every born again one receives the gift of holy spirit.

Every born again one may not speak in tongues (or utilize any other manifestation shown in 1 Cor 12:8-10).

But every Christian has the ABILITY to speak in tongues (1 Cor 12:7; 1 Cor 14:5)

In 1 Cor 12:30 we read have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

And we know the answer to the question is "no".

We all have strengths and weaknesses. Each individual believer is to work together with other believers and together we all function as one body.

It is still true that all Christians can, and should, speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5).

Eph 6:
18) Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit (cp 1 Cor 14:15), and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Jude
20) But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Also, the overall context of 1 Cor 12-14 is Christian meetings. In meetings, not everyone can do everything. It's just not practical.

Aside from a few minor things, we generally agree on the subject. Glad for that

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Aside from a few minor things, we generally agree on the subject. Glad for that

Yep .....

 

[UnderGrace]

The church at Corinth, carnal, sexually immoral, lacking love, focused on self, yet here they are with all this tongue speaking and being edified, I wonder why it was not working?

I do not doubt there we some who had the true gift, it would seem however, there were also some with conterfeits or fake tongues.

Paul is addressing both the true gift and the counterfeit in Chapter 14.

What do we have presently in modern day churches the true gift or a counterfeit?

Is it glossolalia or xenoglossa.

That is really the whole argument. As I reread this chapter, there is no doubt Paul is speaking about the true gift in some places but not in every verse.

He is putting the true gift in its rightful place and dealing with the counterfeit by demanding there be a translator.

 

[DJ2]

I believe in the existence of gravity, not because of the many books written about it but because the effects of its non-existence would be obvious. There is no need to quote Issac Newton to prove gravity exist, if gravity did not exist we would know.This principle is true of the claims of the pentecostal movement, if we are living in an age of the miraculous as in the 1st century we would know, it would be quite obvious. There would be no need to quote Paul of Tarsus, we would simply see the effects of the miraculous.

The pentecostal movement has been given ample time and opportunity to prove their claims. The time has come to speak the truth and call the emperor naked.

 

[Magenta]

But every Christian has the ABILITY to speak in tongues (1 Cor 12:7; 1 Cor 14:5)

Neither of those verses say that.

 

[Dino246]

I believe in the existence of gravity, not because of the many books written about it but because the effects of its non-existence would be obvious. There is no need to quote Issac Newton to prove gravity exist, if gravity did not exist we would know.This principle is true of the claims of the pentecostal movement, if we are living in an age of the miraculous as in the 1st century we would know, it would be quite obvious. There would be no need to quote Paul of Tarsus, we would simply see the effects of the miraculous.

The pentecostal movement has been given ample time and opportunity to prove their claims. The time has come to speak the truth and call the emperor naked.

It appears that you have not yet read Craig Keener's book on miracles yet. I need not state what I think of someone so willing to share repeatedly his dogmatic opinion and so unwilling to do a little homework.

 

[DJ2]

It appears that you have not yet read Craig Keener's book on miracles yet. I need not state what I think of someone so willing to share repeatedly his dogmatic opinion and so unwilling to do a little homework.

It appears your belief that we are living in an age of the miraculous is based on Mr. Keener's book, this is rather telling to say the least. The need to read a 1200 page book of stories of past miraculous events is a clear and desperate attempt to prove a claim that should not even need to be defended.

The Bible is full of true stories of the miraculous, I do not need a 1200 page book written by Mr. Keener to believe it exist. The question is does it exist now. No books or homework will be needed when the miraculous returns.

You can bet on that!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The church at Corinth, carnal, sexually immoral, lacking love, focused on self, yet here they are with all this tongue speaking and being edified, I wonder why it was not working?

I do not doubt there we some who had the true gift, it would seem however, there were also some with conterfeits or fake tongues.

Paul is addressing both the true gift and the counterfeit in Chapter 14.

What do we have presently in modern day churches the true gift or a counterfeit?

Is it glossolalia or xenoglossa.

That is really the whole argument. As I reread this chapter, there is no doubt Paul is speaking about the true gift in some places but not in every verse.

He is putting the true gift in its rightful place and dealing with the counterfeit by demanding there be a translator.

So in 1 Cor 14:28, when Paul told them if there is no interpretation they should speak in tongues silently to God, Paul was actually encouraging them to speak in the "counterfeit" to their pagan god?

I believe if Paul was dealing with some sort of pagan worship, he'd tell them to knock it off altogether ... Paul would not encourage them to speak silently to their pagan god.

Nor would Paul tell them to "not forbid" the counterfeit (1 Cor 14:39).

 

[Enow]

That I do not agree with your interpretation of Scripture as it relates to the manifestation of the Spirit does not mean I "have a misconception of tongues in the NT."

Again, as you are wholly unfamiliar with my prayer life, you have no opinion as to the extent of my "labor".

you cannot provide the post but your implication is that I have done as you stated.

got it : /

I do not know why there is a thread on using tongues privately for other tongue speakers when you do not even know if you were praying in tongues privately or speaking in tongues privately the last time you used tongues privately.

How can you prove you were praying in tongues when the Holy Spirit may have manifested (energizes ) that tongue for the other use to use privately like the supposed claim for self edification?

So like... you do not even know if you were having a prayer life at all, now do you?

 

[wolfwint]

1 Cor 12:
7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


The Holy Spirit IS the gift, and that gift can be manifested in nine different ways.


Christians should know that they have received the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Experience is no guarantee for truth.


If people are not taught correctly, it makes perfect sense.


Nope. I was raised in a Presbyterian church.


I'm sorry.

Shrume:1 Cor 12: 7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

Wolfwint: 1.Cor. 12,7 is talking about that the Holy Spirit reveals in every believer a gift for to profit withal. In the context 1. Cor.12,1-6 and also 8-31 shows clear that not all beliver have the same gift. I understand according chapter 12 not the Holy Spirit as gift, but the different abilitys ( which Paul meant in Vers 8-10) The whole chapter 12 and special vers 30 do in no way support your view!!

Shrume: 1 Cor 14:5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Wolfwint: 1. Cor. 14,5 is not supporting your claim that all believers have the ability to speak in tongues. Pauls wish that all will speak in tongues in this vers showes that the fact is, that they dont do. And in the case the could do it Paul statet clear that he find it more important that the believers should prophesied.

So if somebody will really obey gods word than he would search rather to prophecie than to speak in tongues! But in all the charismatic and pentecostal movements today speaking in tongues is the middlepoint and seems to be the messure how holy somebody is. This teaching I cant find in the bible- And if we read 1.Cor 13, then we find out that the messure is love. Love is the greatest gift and should also be the " 1. class ability among christians."

But instead are the so called sign gifts (speaking in tongues, healing and prophecing) in the middlepoint. This teaching is not from the Holy Spirit!
And your claim that every beliver has the ability to speak in tongues is nowhere taugth in the NT, OT ore in the churchhistory.

Shrume:The Holy Spirit IS the gift, and that gift can be manifested in nine different ways.

Wolfwint: So you would say that the Holy Spirit is reduced to 9 different manifestations?

 

[notuptome]

Exactly.

You misquoted the verse. It does not say, "knowledge ceased" or anything of the sort. It says, "knowledge will cease" (emphasis added). If you are asserting that this has already happened, I must ask, by what means did you come to have this knowledge?

In case you miss the obvious, you can't have knowledge if knowledge has ceased.

As to your comment that Paul was correcting, not condoning, why would he give clear instructions and warn against forbidding to speak in tongues if he was not condoning the action? Again, your view on the matter doesn't hold water.

Knowledge has ceased in that men do not get saved and receive knowledge of theological doctrines without study. A new believer knows only that Christ has given him new life. Christ has changed him from lost in sin to alive unto eternal life.

God has chosen through the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe. We are not saved and immediately given a doctorate in theology.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[shrume]

I do not know why there is a thread on using tongues privately for other tongue speakers when you do not even know if you were praying in tongues privately or speaking in tongues privately the last time you used tongues privately.

Speaking in tongues to yourself is praying in the spirit. They are the same thing.

How can you prove you were praying in tongues when the Holy Spirit may have manifested (energizes ) that tongue for the other use to use privately

What are you trying to say?

like the supposed claim for self edification?

The "supposed claim" of self edification? I choose to believe what Paul wrote. I'm sorry you don't.

1 Cor 14:
4) He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

So like... you do not even know if you were having a prayer life at all, now do you?

Of course we do.

 

[notuptome]

That I do not agree with your interpretation of Scripture as it relates to the manifestation of the Spirit does not mean I "have a misconception of tongues in the NT."

You lack a solid biblical foundation for an understanding of tongues in the bible. I do not wish for you to agree with me I only wish for you to understand what the scripture teaches.

Again, as you are wholly unfamiliar with my prayer life, you have no opinion as to the extent of my "labor".

You put it out there I only know that there is no merit in prayer that is without knowledge.

you cannot provide the post but your implication is that I have done as you stated.


got it : /

Solomon taught in the proverbs to seek knowledge and through knowledge to get understanding from which one was to gain wisdom. It is not reasonable to promote the teaching that Paul was endorsing prayer without knowledge since knowledge was highly regarded in scripture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[shrume]

Shrume:1 Cor 12: 7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

Wolfwint: 1.Cor. 12,7 is talking about that the Holy Spirit reveals in every believer a gift for to profit withal. In the context 1. Cor.12,1-6 and also 8-31 shows clear that not all beliver have the same gift. I understand according chapter 12 not the Holy Spirit as gift, but the different abilitys ( which Paul meant in Vers 8-10) The whole chapter 12 and special vers 30 do in no way support your view!!

Shrume: 1 Cor 14:5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Wolfwint: 1. Cor. 14,5 is not supporting your claim that all believers have the ability to speak in tongues. Pauls wish that all will speak in tongues in this vers showes that the fact is, that they dont do. And in the case the could do it Paul statet clear that he find it more important that the believers should prophesied.

So if somebody will really obey gods word than he would search rather to prophecie than to speak in tongues! But in all the charismatic and pentecostal movements today speaking in tongues is the middlepoint and seems to be the messure how holy somebody is. This teaching I cant find in the bible- And if we read 1.Cor 13, then we find out that the messure is love. Love is the greatest gift and should also be the " 1. class ability among christians."

But instead are the so called sign gifts (speaking in tongues, healing and prophecing) in the middlepoint. This teaching is not from the Holy Spirit!
And your claim that every beliver has the ability to speak in tongues is nowhere taugth in the NT, OT ore in the churchhistory.

Shrume:The Holy Spirit IS the gift, and that gift can be manifested in nine different ways.

Wolfwint: So you would say that the Holy Spirit is reduced to 9 different manifestations?

We've discussed this many times, wolf. No point in continually repeating ourselves. Your mind is made up, as is mine. I'll continue to speak in tongues and encourage others to do so. You'll apparently continue to deny it.

Time will tell who is right.

God bless.

 

[shrume]

You lack a solid biblical foundation for an understanding of tongues in the bible. I do not wish for you to agree with me I only wish for you to understand what the scripture teaches.

Roger, you're the one who does not understand tongues.

You put it out there I only know that there is no merit in prayer that is without knowledge.

The Bible disagrees with you.

Solomon taught in the proverbs to seek knowledge and through knowledge to get understanding from which one was to gain wisdom. It is not reasonable to promote the teaching that Paul was endorsing prayer without knowledge since knowledge was highly regarded in scripture.

Paul encouraged people to speak in tongues and said not to forbid it.

Wisdom and knowledge are indeed highly regarded in scripture. Knowledge is to learn about speaking in tongues, what it is, and why Christians should do it. Wisdom is to do what the Bible says to do, and God would like every Christian to speak in tongues.