Summer is Nigh
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Dispensationalists don't understand the difference between physical Israel (the Jews) who were abhorrent to God for the constant rebellion in the Old Testament and spiritual Israel which are people of faith.
They can't differentiate between Amos 9: 1-10 which is talking about the rebellious Jews (physical Israel) and verses 11-15 which is talking about the first coming of Christ and those who would become part of true Israel which are the spiritual Jews. People of faith.
Locutus said it well here...
The tabernacle was rebuilt by Jesus, who is obviously the real temple, as He made clear in John 2: 19 when He said, "Destroy this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up."
Dispensationalists make the same stupid mistake the pharisees of Jesus day did. They think carnally and think that a people are special based on their race. They are looking for a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and a treaty with the Antichrist that is never coming and other ignorant things like that.
True Israel, spiritual Israel, are people who believe in Jesus. God doesn't care what race you are.
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The apostle James in Acts 15 gives us the true meaning of what Amos 9: 11-12 means when he quotes it in Acts 15: 16-17. It is clearly not the rebuilding of the 2nd temple. Jesus said in John 2: 19, "Destroy this temple and I will raise it up in 3 days." Jesus being the real "tabernacle of David."
But let's use your logic for a second and assume it is the second temple and not Jesus. Then what James quotes in Acts 15: 17 makes no sense whatsoever. Acts 15: 17 now means that when the second temple was rebuilt "the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who are called by My name" was fulfilled. The logic refutes itself. All the gentiles were not seeking God when the second temple was built. In fact, God was still only dealing with Israel at that time.
But when we move to Acts 15 we can see that the 70 weeks for Daniel and his people have been fulfilled and the gospel has gone out to "all the gentiles who are called by My name (Jesus)". This is obviously the correct interpretation of Amos 9: 11-12 and this is why James quotes Amos in Acts 15: 16-17 signifying its fulfillment.
And see your using the two(Judah/Israel) interchangeable. Israel(10 northern tribes) after Amos was written were taken into captivity by Assyria. Then Judah was taken into captivity by Babylon and then returned and built the second temple(not Israel=10 tribes) If a temple was not built and valid then no AOD could happen and no Messiah could ride an ass into it's gate and none say "blessed is he that cometh..." and James would have never said to Paul to offer sacrifices in it in Acts 21...
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Good post brother. The only question I have is why are you applying the first part of Amos to the northern kingdom? The same story was given in chapter 7 - "I will not again pass by them any more".
Amo 7:8 And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more:
The timing is when the plumb line is in Israel. I assume the plumb line is Jesus. What do you think?
Amo 7:8 And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more:
The timing is when the plumb line is in Israel. I assume the plumb line is Jesus. What do you think?
When the Children of Isael were in teh wilderness, they were disobedient.
By their disobedience4 Salvation was gained by the nations.
The first chosen nation of Israel is that demonstration that God shows no favoritism when it comes to peoples.
Had Israel b een perfect, they would yet be the exclusive chosen, and all who possess the gift of aith know our Father loves all people the same. Of course this last statement is open to being perverted by the enemy, but the faithful are not bothered.
Amos is referring to the consequences of that disobedience in the Wilderness to the glory of God in all peoples to become one.
By their disobedience4 Salvation was gained by the nations.
The first chosen nation of Israel is that demonstration that God shows no favoritism when it comes to peoples.
Had Israel b een perfect, they would yet be the exclusive chosen, and all who possess the gift of aith know our Father loves all people the same. Of course this last statement is open to being perverted by the enemy, but the faithful are not bothered.
Amos is referring to the consequences of that disobedience in the Wilderness to the glory of God in all peoples to become one.
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oh of course
a refresher course in God is done with Israel
been awhile so we must have been due
the same ole argument and the skin on the drum is worn out
oh of course God is done with Israel, Jews and all things prophetic which is why all the disciples were Jewish.
apparently they did not know God was done with them
so why didn't Jesus as the Messiah appear to another nation?
such pesky details...of course He had to fulfill prophecy but we will ignore that which is not yet fulfilled
whatever
a refresher course in God is done with Israel
been awhile so we must have been due
the same ole argument and the skin on the drum is worn out
oh of course God is done with Israel, Jews and all things prophetic which is why all the disciples were Jewish.
apparently they did not know God was done with them
so why didn't Jesus as the Messiah appear to another nation?such pesky details...of course He had to fulfill prophecy but we will ignore that which is not yet fulfilled
whatever
oh of course
a refresher course in God is done with Israel
been awhile so we must have been due
the same ole argument and the skin on the drum is worn out
oh of course God is done with Israel, Jews and all things prophetic which is why all the disciples were Jewish.
apparently they did not know God was done with them so why didn't Jesus as the Messiah appear to another nation?
such pesky details...of course He had to fulfill prophecy but we will ignore that which is not yet fulfilled
whatever
a refresher course in God is done with Israel
been awhile so we must have been due
the same ole argument and the skin on the drum is worn out
oh of course God is done with Israel, Jews and all things prophetic which is why all the disciples were Jewish.
apparently they did not know God was done with them
so why didn't Jesus as the Messiah appear to another nation?such pesky details...of course He had to fulfill prophecy but we will ignore that which is not yet fulfilled
whatever
Herod was a flesh descendant and Paul was a flesh AND spiritual descandant. God is done with flesh Israel as is evidenced by God taking the kingdom from them and brutally destroying them in AD70.
Romans 11:1-5 :
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
According to Paul, God does not forsake Israel, his people.
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And that is true that God has not and will not ever forsake his chosen people. The problem is that most people assume wrongly that flesh descendants of Israel are God's chosen people but they're not. Paul fits both categories because he was a flesh descendant and he was also a spiritual descendant.
In the later part of Romans 10 God is casting away the flesh descendants of Israel and turning the kingdom over to the gentiles.
In Romans 11 Paul is saying that although God is casting away the flesh descendants of Israel, he is in no way casting away his chosen people out of Israel just because they are flesh descendants.
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
In the later part of Romans 10 God is casting away the flesh descendants of Israel and turning the kingdom over to the gentiles.
In Romans 11 Paul is saying that although God is casting away the flesh descendants of Israel, he is in no way casting away his chosen people out of Israel just because they are flesh descendants.
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
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Let's keep going in Romans 11:
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel UNTIL THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES COMES IN 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:
Paul SPECIFICALLY differentiates between saved Gentiles, or the Church, with the JEWS. This should end the erroneous discussion that God is done with the Jews and Israel, but I bet the ranch it won't.
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel UNTIL THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES COMES IN 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:
Paul SPECIFICALLY differentiates between saved Gentiles, or the Church, with the JEWS. This should end the erroneous discussion that God is done with the Jews and Israel, but I bet the ranch it won't.
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I never said that God would never save Jews again because he does now and he will continue to do so. And he might save a lot of them after the times of gentiles.
But please tell me what does God saving Jews have to do with God being done with the nation of Israel? God is done with Israel as a nation, Jerusalem is done, physical temples are done. The kingdom was given to the elect and that's where it will stay. Do you really think that God is going to give his kingdom back to God hating, adulterous, wicked, fleshly people of any race.
But please tell me what does God saving Jews have to do with God being done with the nation of Israel? God is done with Israel as a nation, Jerusalem is done, physical temples are done. The kingdom was given to the elect and that's where it will stay. Do you really think that God is going to give his kingdom back to God hating, adulterous, wicked, fleshly people of any race.
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well, just like all the other threads you have either started or participated in, your views are not new
God is not done with Israel and there are many many verses you ignore or re-interpret to come to that conclusion
don't assume things about others in order to try and swing them in your direction; nothing has changed other than newer members who have not had the pleasure
God is not done with Israel and there are many many verses you ignore or re-interpret to come to that conclusion
don't assume things about others in order to try and swing them in your direction; nothing has changed other than newer members who have not had the pleasure
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