The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

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lenna

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throughfaith

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there are a number of them regarding that topic but I think the one you linked to is probably the most recent

but it has certainly been debated here

false teaching (lordship salvation)

lordship salvation

there's a couple but I even saw one from 2011
I think more christians are decieved by Lordship then any other doctrine ..its found in so many denominations and systematic theology .
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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I think it is best said that when we truly receive Christ we receive Him as both Lord and Saving, not just one.
MacArthur's original beef was against those that simply mouthed a sinners prayer with no subsequent fruit of regeneration. The danger here is that that approach produces 'fruit inspectors'.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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there are a number of them regarding that topic but I think the one you linked to is probably the most recent

but it has certainly been debated here

false teaching (lordship salvation)

lordship salvation

there's a couple but I even saw one from 2011
Yep. A highly debated topic
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,434
16,358
113
I think it is best said that when we truly receive Christ we receive Him as both Lord and Saving, not just one.
MacArthur's original beef was against those that simply mouthed a sinners prayer with no subsequent fruit of regeneration. The danger here is that that approach produces 'fruit inspectors'.
Yeah sadly I think all to often we as humans try to argue against one thing by going to the other extreme. Like those who use James 2 to try to destroy all who believe in grace through faith because they fear it will
Lead to Licentiousness
 
L

lenna

Guest
I think it is best said that when we truly receive Christ we receive Him as both Lord and Saving, not just one.
MacArthur's original beef was against those that simply mouthed a sinners prayer with no subsequent fruit of regeneration. The danger here is that that approach produces 'fruit inspectors'.

as I said, he makes some good points but crosses the line when he states that a person is only saved if it is 'lordship salvation'

the Bible makes no such distinction
 
L

lenna

Guest
I think more christians are decieved by Lordship then any other doctrine ..its found in so many denominations and systematic theology .

not sure how you are meaning that?

would you mind to explain a little better?

thanks !
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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1 cor 15 . 1-4 is the Gospel . We don't make Jesus Lord ,He is Lord .
Unless you make Him Lord of your life, He is NOT Lord as far as you are concerned.

You are trying to oppose Bible Truth and Gospel Truth. I will not even bother to respond to your nonsense any more, since you seek to win an argument instead of coming to a knowledge of the truth.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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as I said, he makes some good points but crosses the line when he states that a person is only saved if it is 'lordship salvation'
Is that what MacArthur says?

'John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” ' Quoted from Got Questions.

He does not use the term "Lordship Salvation", which apparently has been created by his opponents, as though it is incorrect. But it does not matter what MacArthur says. What does the Word of God say?

Now notice what Peter said on the day of Pentecost:Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

For Jews, "Lord" literally meant "God" and therefore they substituted "Adonai" (Lord) for YHWH (Yahweh God). So Peter was telling the Jews that Jesus of Nazareth was Lord and God, and they must totally submit to His authority.

And Paul says that all sinners must call upon Jesus as "LORD" in order to be saved (Romans 10):
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


To confess "the Lord Jesus" is to publicly acknowledge that He is Lord of your life from here on. This is BIBLICAL Lordship Salvation, so anyone who opposes this opposes God and Christ.
 

SoulWeaver

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Oct 25, 2014
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I am on my third helping, I keep laying it out for others to join, but no one is eating it. I can’t let it go to waist ;)
Definitely don't let it go to waist, central obesity is dangerous. ;) We need you here and in good health. :)
Here's some black coffee for you.... 3 calories :coffee:
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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Ok so Lordship tends to mean to be lord over someone however at the same time the lordship with God is not the same as how lordship usually is used. He is Lord with or without us making him our Lord but the point is that he never forces his lordship on us.
Think about being a king, a king is able if he chooses to force his authority and lordship on everyone if he chooses then he can force everyone to obey his every command however look through history this method while entitled doesn't pan out well everyone hates such a king and how the king is recieved affects the entire kingdom.

However a good and wise kinghas this lordship and authority but doesn't abuse it or force it on others a king is noted as being wporthy of kingship when his servants and everyone in the kingdom willingly pledges their allegiance to him. These are the kind of people who will willingly die for the king because he is a well respected and worthy king to die for not just anyone would die for a king especially if he is a power corrupted tyrant

But a king who has gained the respect and loyalty and love from his followers and those under his authority has suich people because he shows valor in his leadership he understands that having power and authority means knowing to not abuse it and force it on others he can demand respect but doesn't because he knows respect even with a crown is earned not entitled
God treasures a willing child not a forced one because he understands what it means to have that kind of power and kingship.
 

Kolistus

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Feb 3, 2020
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Christians who refused the rigors of a tough training, who pandered to themselves and who did evil, will be sons of God WHO FORFEIT THE KINGDOM ON EARTH.
Great post I understand your view now. It makes sense to me, I had never really looked at it that way, just one questions remains in my mind: These who forfeit the kingdom on earth, where are they? They will be resurected as well, so where are they? What happens to them? Please answer this question too.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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not sure how you are meaning that?

would you mind to explain a little better?

thanks !
My take on Lordship salvation is that it comes in many disguises . In Calvinism it is right up front and with the likes of John MacArther actually promote the idea . Arminism is very similar but with of course Governed by fear of Losing salvation .( Calvernist version is still governed by fear , and virtue signalling , but is based on Faith being gifted and repentance being a gift also , so of course the emphasis has to be on works in keeping with being a frozen chosen . The Pencostal / Charismatic denominations will sneak it in with 'initial evidence ' coupled with the idea you can forfeit salvation by not enduring to the end ( Perseverance)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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as I said, he makes some good points but crosses the line when he states that a person is only saved if it is 'lordship salvation'

the Bible makes no such distinction
He should be saying 'one is only saved if they had been born again'.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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My take on Lordship salvation is that it comes in many disguises . In Calvinism it is right up front and with the likes of John MacArther actually promote the idea . Arminism is very similar but with of course Governed by fear of Losing salvation .( Calvernist version is still governed by fear , and virtue signalling , but is based on Faith being gifted and repentance being a gift also , so of course the emphasis has to be on works in keeping with being a frozen chosen . The Pencostal / Charismatic denominations will sneak it in with 'initial evidence ' coupled with the idea you can forfeit salvation by not enduring to the end ( Perseverance)
Would you please educate me on this "initial evidence" teaching? What is that? (Honestly never heard, except if you're talking about tongues which some Pentacostals push as requirement?)
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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Yeah sadly I think all to often we as humans try to argue against one thing by going to the other extreme. Like those who use James 2 to try to destroy all who believe in grace through faith because they fear it will
Lead to Licentiousness
It's not where that airplane lands... but there's no use in arguing because they never believe it... :(
 
L

lenna

Guest
Is that what MacArthur says?

'John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” ' Quoted from Got Questions.

He does not use the term "Lordship Salvation", which apparently has been created by his opponents, as though it is incorrect. But it does not matter what MacArthur says. What does the Word of God say?

Now notice what Peter said on the day of Pentecost:Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

For Jews, "Lord" literally meant "God" and therefore they substituted "Adonai" (Lord) for YHWH (Yahweh God). So Peter was telling the Jews that Jesus of Nazareth was Lord and God, and they must totally submit to His authority.

And Paul says that all sinners must call upon Jesus as "LORD" in order to be saved (Romans 10):
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


To confess "the Lord Jesus" is to publicly acknowledge that He is Lord of your life from here on. This is BIBLICAL Lordship Salvation, so anyone who opposes this opposes God and Christ.
well I'm not going to defend MacArthur on anything considering his book Strange Fire but I digress

in the sense Lordship Salvation is being used, no, the Bible does not state the same

in the sense of Jesus is Lord of course the Bible states that

we have everything from the simple And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21 to

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9

but even in Romans, Jesus IS Lord and the salvation comes in believing what God has done through Him, that is salvation

Lord is a common name in scripture for God from the OT through the New which I am sure you know

take it easy on the anyone who opposes stuff, cause the Bible itself is not that explicit on all occasions as I just illustrated. Salvation, that is the acceptance of Christ may be one instant in time, but coming to KNOW Him, and even KNOW Him as Lord, is not