THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

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azamzimtoti

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(Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.)

In regards to the 70 weeks and everlasting righteousness, this was the righteousness that Peter was still looking for at the return of the Lord, so we can't place this "everlasting righteousness" at the cross:

(2 Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.)

And remember that Peter previously told his readers the Lord was at hand in his first letter:

(1 Pet 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.)
 

KJV1611

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The city was still not dealt with at the cross K16, what was fulfilled at the cross was "to make reconciliation for iniquity".
You may be right but here’s how I see it.

70 weeks are determined upon thy people and thy holy city... 70 weeks to do what?

Be destroyed?

OR to be used to finish the transgression?
 

azamzimtoti

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You may be right but here’s how I see it.

70 weeks are determined upon thy people and thy holy city... 70 weeks to do what?

Be destroyed?

OR to be used to finish the transgression?
Both, destroyed and "finish the transgression" I think relates to the "filling up of sins" by the Jews:

(Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.)

(Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.)

Paul states a similar sentiment:

(1 Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.)

(Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.)


The wrath came in the war of 66-70 AD.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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Both, destroyed and "finish the transgression" I think relates to the "filling up of sins" by the Jews:

(Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.)

(Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.)

Paul states a similar sentiment:

(1 Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.)

(Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.)


The wrath came in the war of 66-70 AD.

Right after they worshiped who as God?
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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Both, destroyed and "finish the transgression" I think relates to the "filling up of sins" by the Jews:

(Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.)

(Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.)

Paul states a similar sentiment:

(1 Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.)

(Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.)


The wrath came in the war of 66-70 AD.

THAT IS A JOKE RIGHT? If not, you are so dead wrong, it is Laughable. That war of 66-70 AD, will look like child's Play, compared to the real thing. A war that will leave a river of BLOOD that will be 180 miles long flowing out of the Valley.

Revelation 14:20 (HCSB)
20 Then the press was trampled outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press up to the horses’ bridles for about 180 miles.


You had better get a reality check, and READ Zechariah chapter 14. EVER BIT IS THAT PROPHECY will Happen in the FUTURE.
 

iamsoandso

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KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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Both, destroyed and "finish the transgression" I think relates to the "filling up of sins" by the Jews:

(Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.)

(Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.)

Paul states a similar sentiment:

(1 Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.)

(Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.)


The wrath came in the war of 66-70 AD.
Dan 9:25 (KJV) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Thinking about my response to your post I just discovered something that I’ve been looking for for a LONG time. I know this is not your line of thinking but I’ll share it with you anyway.

The 70 weeks might have been completed on the day of Pentecost.

1 literal week to confirm the covenant.

7 weeks is 7x7 or 49 days which would be the day of Pentecost.

So we have 62 weeks (don’t know what that is yet) then 1 week (confirming the covenant), then concluding with 7 weeks (the day of Pentecost).
 

iamsoandso

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When was Revelation written before Pentecost?
 

Absolutely

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I always like this point in these type debates where everyone has to determine who the beast was and who worshiped it and who was destroyed at the brightness of the Lords coming.
Preterism is on another planet.
Historicists creativity.
 

garee

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Mar 28, 2016
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Don't forget now the ones the Scriptures say "drink the wine of the wrath of God" worship the image and receive the mark. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+14:9-11&version=KJV in ad70 those Jews who were in the city walls of Jerusalem were revolting/rebelling against Rome/Caesar not worshiping him or having him put his mark on them...
The mark is not a visible mark .It is the mark of Cain, natural unconverted man, assigned the number 666. No faith in God, coming form God. Suffering the pangs of a living hell throughout his whole life with no rest coming from Christ.. . . our sabbath

When Jesus said. . . . it is finished the time of reformation had come. The temporal time period used as parable for then, Kings in Israel, a Pagan foundation walking by sight after what the eyes see had come to a end .

It is referred to as a abomination of desecration the temple build with human hands. The walls that remained are not a object of faith . I would think having nothing to do with 70 AD.

It had more to do when Jesus as a parable walked out of a temple as a sign against the faithless Jew and moved to the mountains. As soon as Jesus performed that those who did not receive the spiritual understanding hid from Christ in effect said. Don't you have eyes that can see . They wanted to re show him like this time keep your eyes open like look at the abomination of desecration. Isn't it beautiful ?


Like the parable with Samson moving the gates to a high place to represent all the kingdoms of the world. Never one kingdom as if God was a respecter of persons and was served by corrupted human flesh. The end of the abomination of desecration rendering the temple usage useless.

Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The temporal the temple made with human hands(an abomination of desecration) points to the true eternal unseen holy place of God.as His hidden glory The believers that have the born again Spirit, Christ are the temple.

The proper "interpretation prescription" must be applied if we are to walk by faith and not seek after the abomination of desecration .

Which again is the thing seen standing in the unseen holy place of our Father in heaven . Even the Son of man, Jesus (the temporal) with his corrupted flesh refused to stand there as the antichrist.

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
 

iamsoandso

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The mark is not a visible mark .It is the mark of Cain, natural unconverted man, assigned the number 666. No faith in God, coming form God. Suffering the pangs of a living hell throughout his whole life with no rest coming from Christ.. . . our sabbath

When Jesus said. . . . it is finished the time of reformation had come. The temporal time period used as parable for then, Kings in Israel, a Pagan foundation walking by sight after what the eyes see had come to a end .

It is referred to as a abomination of desecration the temple build with human hands. The walls that remained are not a object of faith . I would think having nothing to do with 70 AD.

It had more to do when Jesus as a parable walked out of a temple as a sign against the faithless Jew and moved to the mountains. As soon as Jesus performed that those who did not receive the spiritual understanding hid from Christ in effect said. Don't you have eyes that can see . They wanted to re show him like this time keep your eyes open like look at the abomination of desecration. Isn't it beautiful ?


Like the parable with Samson moving the gates to a high place to represent all the kingdoms of the world. Never one kingdom as if God was a respecter of persons and was served by corrupted human flesh. The end of the abomination of desecration rendering the temple usage useless.

Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The temporal the temple made with human hands(an abomination of desecration) points to the true eternal unseen holy place of God.as His hidden glory The believers that have the born again Spirit, Christ are the temple.

The proper "interpretation prescription" must be applied if we are to walk by faith and not seek after the abomination of desecration .

Which again is the thing seen standing in the unseen holy place of our Father in heaven . Even the Son of man, Jesus (the temporal) with his corrupted flesh refused to stand there as the antichrist.

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but, the things which are not seen are eternal.
Irregardless of this Garee the beast and those who follow him do not see things that way which is why in the Scriptures it says that he's physically,literally(in real life) going to kill the ones who wont worship the image. So at some point the one your going to need to convince that he is seeing this incorrectly is the beast.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13:15&version=KJV ,,,,your going to have to break it down for him and say "I know you spiritually killed those you convinced to worship your image, but since I wont your not suppose to literally kill me because I wont"....You can spiritualize away all you want but it don't work with the beast because he cant discern things spiritual which is why Jesus is warning you that the beast is going to do this literally.
 

garee

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Irregardless of this Garee the beast and those who follow him do not see things that way which is why in the Scriptures it says that he's physically,literally(in real life) going to kill the ones who wont worship the image. So at some point the one your going to need to convince that he is seeing this incorrectly is the beast.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13:15&version=KJV ,,,,your going to have to break it down for him and say "I know you spiritually killed those you convinced to worship your image, but since I wont your not suppose to literally kill me because I wont"....You can spiritualize away all you want but it don't work with the beast because he cant discern things spiritual which is why Jesus is warning you that the beast is going to do this literally.
I thanks. I see that a little differently.

Did you mean the beast master that knew the law of God kills and took on the form a of a beast whose legs were removed taking away its walking ability . God uses the word walk to represent understand.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The beast did not have the spiritual understand . He literally understood the letter of the law. Having received the result when pride was found in that spirit beings.( Experiences it first hand) Again that kind of messenger was not subject to understanding the unseen things( salvation) Having a hatred for mankind.. "Kill em all" the cry from beast master of hell.

That beast challenging the unseen authority of the letter of the word as a law not subject to change . The father of lies in instant gratitude no faith needed replied: "You will not surely die" announcing the death sentence. He was a murder from the beginning. Abel the first martyr for the faith (one who believed in a God not seen)

The father of serial killers, as the mark of Cain... 666 or Esau who saw no value in the unseen things of God but sold his birthright for a cup of goat a soup.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

.Those who refuse to buy but rather sell the gospel of our salvation. They have not the seal of God approval in their forehead or hand

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding

Death as the letter of the law, the power the father of lies wielded will be tossed into the lake of fire. . . never to rise and condem to death another creation.
 

Absolutely

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There's Historical premillennialism and there's preterism but they are two different positions in eschatology.
IMO ad 70 was a partial fulfillment,but specific judgement on that generation.
They told pilot "let his blood be on our hands and our children's hands/head"
 

VCO

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We had a SERIOUS WARNING about the Great Falling Away from Truth today in our Sermon. On this Thread we have been debating about when the Rapture will occur, BUT the VAST MAJORITY OF US absolutely believe our KING of Kings WILL come someday and Literally WILL set up a 1000 year MILLENNIUM KINGDOM hear on EARTH in the Earthly Jerusalem. While we have been debating that, and probably getting closer to an argument than we should, THE REAL DANGER HAS SNUCK IN the Back Door, and has POLLUTED one whole denomination to VOTE 80% to CHANGE their Doctrinal Statement to a Heresy that DENIES there will EVER be the 1000 year Kingdom, where CHRIST WILL LITERALLY BE ON THE THRONE OF DAVID, RULING THE Whole WORLD FOR A 1000 YEARS.

This Evangelical Denomination, in their ANNUAL VOTE, decided to go from a Traditional Premillennial Position to an Amillennial Position, in an 80% to 20% VOTE. For those who do not know what Amillennialism is, hear is the Definition according to Wikipedia.

{quort} Amillennialism (Greek: a- "no" + millennialism), or amillenarism, in Christian eschatology, involves the rejection of the belief that Jesus will have a literal, thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. This rejection contrasts with premillennial and some postmillennial interpretations of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation. The amillennial view regards the "thousand years" mentioned in Revelation 20 as a symbolic number, not as a literal description; amillennialists hold that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age. Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age. {End Quote}

As far as I am Concerned, amillennialism is a Psuedo Christian Cult. If not, they are so CLOSE TO LINE, there is almost no way to tell them from other Cults like Jehovah Witnesses. THEY HAVE MARRIED THE WORLD, in my opinion. In their theology, you do not have to take any Future Prophecy Serious, because all of it is just Symbolism. It appears this IS the GREAT FALLING AWAY FROM TRUTH, that HE Prophesied.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (NKJV)
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.


I believe that is Part of the Falling Away, that HE PROPHESIED. And the Jews are getting ready to build the Third Temple, so soon, the whole prophecy could be fulfilled.

Here is the a Chart the will show you the similarity and differences in eschatology we have been debating. But this Amillennialism a different animal and I think it is Heresy at best.



Now before any one asks me, what is a Partial Rapture, I have Never Heard of that Theory. So if someone KNOWS that theory, please explain it for us. With the Rest of the Theories I am somewhat familiar. For the Post-Tribulation theory, it would be best if you ask
dcontroversal, because that is the theory he advocates. Midtribulation is associated with Antichrist putting his throne in the Holy of Holies, and demanding everyone must now worship him. It also has to do with the Pouring out of GOD's Wrath on the whole Earth. So if anyone knows more about the Midtribulation Theory, Please tell us. I am Pretribulation - Calling Out of the Bride of Christ, so that I CAN EXPLAIN. We Believe the Rapture could happen at any time, because ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS THE TIME when HE alone gets to decide if the New Dwelling Place for the Bride is DONE, and the FATHER tells the SON, GO GET YOUR BRIDE!

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.


We BELIEVE it is wise TO KEEP READY FOR THE BRIDEGROOM AT ALL TIMES.
If Pretribulation passes, we will STILL BE READY AT THE MIDTRIBULATION.
If the Post Tribulation comes, WE WILL STILL BE READY THEN.


BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS CHART, all mainline Christianity believes HE IS COMING TO LITERALLY SET UP A 1000 YEAR MILLENNIUM KINGDOM, in the CHART it is dark blue, and we all agree on that. That is why I think Amillennial's are a Psuedo Christian Cult, or at least a Border-line Cult.

I highly recommend everyone READ Zechariah 14:1-21, even if you have read it recently. I believe that ENTIRE PROPHECY will be fulfilled By JESUS CHRIST Himself, to the letter.

Zechariah 14:9 (HCSB)
9 On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
 

VCO

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When was Revelation written before Pentecost?


You have got something there. It says traditionally the Revelation, John wrote it around 96 AD. AMEN, AMEN!

That date disproves azamzimtoti's THEORY, so it is was busted. "The wrath came in the war of 66-70 AD."

ThanK You, for reminding me of that.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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I thanks. I see that a little differently.

Did you mean the beast master that knew the law of God kills and took on the form a of a beast whose legs were removed taking away its walking ability . God uses the word walk to represent understand.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The beast did not have the spiritual understand . He literally understood the letter of the law. Having received the result when pride was found in that spirit beings.( Experiences it first hand) Again that kind of messenger was not subject to understanding the unseen things( salvation) Having a hatred for mankind.. "Kill em all" the cry from beast master of hell.

That beast challenging the unseen authority of the letter of the word as a law not subject to change . The father of lies in instant gratitude no faith needed replied: "You will not surely die" announcing the death sentence. He was a murder from the beginning. Abel the first martyr for the faith (one who believed in a God not seen)

The father of serial killers, as the mark of Cain... 666 or Esau who saw no value in the unseen things of God but sold his birthright for a cup of goat a soup.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

.Those who refuse to buy but rather sell the gospel of our salvation. They have not the seal of God approval in their forehead or hand

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding

Death as the letter of the law, the power the father of lies wielded will be tossed into the lake of fire. . . never to rise and condem to death another creation.

Your talking about everything but the Scripture I gave https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13:15&version=KJV when you look at it,it will dawn on you that it is saying the beast kills them literally and not spiritually.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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IMO ad 70 was a partial fulfillment,but specific judgement on that generation.
They told pilot "let his blood be on our hands and our children's hands/head"

In post #910 you combined "Historic" and "preterist" I myself hold to an Historic premillennialism position https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_premillennialism but that's not completely correct because I also could be described as an Chilliast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennialism and also hold to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennial_Day_Theory (I am not a preterist)

I was explaining that they are "two different groups"(completely different). You are correct about ad70 I think,, who do you think "recieved the deadly wound",and when?
 

azamzimtoti

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Apr 3, 2019
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You have got something there. It says traditionally the Revelation, John wrote it around 96 AD. AMEN, AMEN!

That date disproves azamzimtoti's THEORY, so it is was busted. "The wrath came in the war of 66-70 AD."
No it doesn't, there is no way to positively state John's revelation was written "around 96 AD".

Gary North does a great job of establishing that the book was written pre 70 AD in his "Before Jerusalem Fell". Here is a link to the book in free PDF form:

https://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1989_gentry_before-jerusalem-fell.pdf

You need to explain how John can be told to measure the temple when it was no longer standing:

(Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.)

(Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.)

We know from history that the siege of the city in the 1st century was around 42 months.

John the Baptist/Elijah warned his hearers about the wrath to come on that generation, which places it within the lifetime of his hearers.

(Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?)

He also states the ax was ready to strike the nation with His wrath:

(Mat 3:10 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.)

The harvest was already underway as the "fan was already in his hand":

(Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.)

The following places the harvest in the 1st century:

(Mat 9:37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few)

(Mat 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest)

(John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.)