The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

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Jul 23, 2018
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Pentecostals are all about experiences, and interpreting them in the light of their theology.

Here's a scenario that doesn't make sense to me: a roomful of blabbering, incoherent people all talking at the same time.

Here's a scenario that makes sense to me: God causes the speaker to speak in a language to a given person in the audience, who knows the language. The listener recognizes that the speaker is speaking for God into his life. A third person repeats the words of the speaker in the language of the audience.

This scenario makes sense. Mindless blabbering by Pentecostals, all speaking at once, without interpretation, makes no sense. What makes sense is someone taught them this behavior. In fact, you will find all kinds of "tongues-speakers" online trying to prime the pump, teaching others how to speak in tongues. Those videos are hilarious, by the way.

I also deny that some have a prayer language that makes them more effective in prayer than the normal believer who does not speak in tongues.

Now, deny that these practices are not commonplace in the Pentecostal world. Does your church practice orderly speaking in tongues, even by your understanding of tongues, or do you have a mass of people all blabbering at once? Is there always an interpreter for the tongues? If not, then you are at best, disobedient to the Scriptural commands concerning this practice, and likely simply practicing unbiblical things.
Paul called it "my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful"
Amen paul.
My experience exactly.
I need nothing changed.
You can't mentally process the things of the spirit.
That gets messy indeed.
As you are finding out
 
Jul 23, 2018
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From acts:
"...but if it comes from God, you cannot possibly defeat them. You could find yourselves fighting against God!" The Council followed Gamaliel's advice"
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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Paul called it "my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful"
Amen paul.
My experience exactly.
I need nothing changed.
You can't mentally process the things of the spirit.
That gets messy indeed.
As you are finding out
You haven't addressed my fundamental claims.

First, Pentecostal churches do not exhibit their "tongues" in a biblical manner, and instead quite often are all blabbering all at the same, time, with no interpreter. Is this following Scriptural commands? And, if their exhibition of "tongues" is being practiced in an unbiblical way, aren't they at the least disobedient Christians without any credibility due to their rebellion?

Second, did the tongues exhibited at Pentecost relate to actual human languages? Yes. Then, why should I take less clear passages and redefine the context of tongues in those verses?

Third, Pentecostals often claim that everyone should be speaking in tongues, and some even deny that non-tongues speakers are Christians. Is this biblical?

Fourth, do you claim God audibly spoke to you? Is this a common claim amongst Pentecostals? If so, then how can we take anything they say seriously?

I think the reason Pentecostals say things like this is to implicitly claim that they are closer to God than others, and to engender respect for their claims. With me, it does exactly the opposite. If Pentecostals make bold claims like this, I simply reject them. I doubt their claims, and even doubt their faith, because at the end of the day, I think they are lying.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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So you are saying Noah did not see any judgement???
Think about it.
The flood is DIRECT JUDGEMENT AS IS THE GT.

Ignoring that is bizare.

The fact stands that the timing is before the gt.
There is NO DELIVERANCCE or removal of ANY TYPE AFTER the gt /flood.
The bible say

Mat 24

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The day of Noah ~ the coming of the son

You change

The day of Noah~ great tribulation

Changing the bible verse is prohibit
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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""I also deny that some have a prayer language that makes them more effective in prayer than the normal believer who does not speak in tongues""
...and you would be wrong.

Paul said he edifies HIMSELF by speaking in tongues.
Paul spoke in tongues more than them all and prayed without ceasing.
What a coincidence he wrote over half of the epistles.
The net epistles were written by Spirit baptized tongue talkers to other spirit filled baptized tongue talkers.
...and a lot of it to the carnal Corinthians. Addressing a carnally walking messed up audience. Instructing them in tongues.

The bible is a spirit book.
Written to those waking in the Spirit.
OK..now it comes out..

We are the ones who are really the special, spirit filled ones.

And, notice that Paul called tongues the least of gifts, mostly because it did edify the individual and not the Church.

Yet, in the claims of Pentecostals, it is a sign of the spirit-filled ones.

By the way, the gift of tongues is only discussed in a few chapters. It seems like the fixation of Pentecostals on this gift is disproportionate to the Scriptural teaching on it.

And, the clearest teaching is in Acts, where tongues are involving HUMAN LANGUAGES.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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""In other words, you know that they are elitists who think that they are endowed, while others are not.

You just don't want to say it.""

Ok.You're right.
I will never share my faith again to some sinner on the street.
I never saw salvation as haughty .
So I guess you can just evangelize by saying they will not have any of heavens benefits ,blessing or warmth cause we don't want to be superior right?
Just his heavy hand and walk all cast down and depressed.

We are just sinners saved by grace. Not at all special and family.

I will try this inferior walk .

Oh wait,I tried sad and cast down and depressed.
I will stick with Jesus. The joy of the Lord is my strength.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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Jesus said my sheep hear my voice.
I am a sheep.
Of course I hear his voice.
Under your template Paul was not in your correctness.
Neither was John.
LOL...

Are you claiming God audibly speaks to his sheep? I have never heard God's voice audibly, but I know I am joined to Christ.

And nothing you say can change that fact.

I am not clamoring for God to speak audibly to me, because I am confident I have been joined to Jesus. I don't need signs and wonders to prove it to myself.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The bible say

Mat 24

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The day of Noah ~ the coming of the son

You change

The day of Noah~ great tribulation

Changing the bible verse is prohibit
Me too.
I don't see ANY taking away of Noah post judgement/postrib.

But we do see him taken INTO THE ARK/HEAVEN ....
DRUM ROLL PLEASE....PRETRIB....

Thank You Jesus!!!!
 
Jul 23, 2018
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LOL...

Are you claiming God audibly speaks to his sheep? I have never heard God's voice audibly, but I know I am joined to Christ.

And nothing you say can change that fact.

I am not clamoring for God to speak audibly to me, because I am confident I have been joined to Jesus. I don't need signs and wonders to prove it to myself.
You said audibly.
Not me.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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You said audibly.
Not me.
By the way, I know some Pentecostals are claiming they hear God speaking audibly.

The Pentecostal chaplain I worked with claimed he heard God speaking audibly.

This was one reason I decided to stop doing ministry with those guys. I am not going to be a party to this type of deception for self-glory.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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By the way, folks, Bruce Gore has a good set of church history videos dealing with this topic of dispensationalism, which directly impacts the pretribulation rapture, as it is their doctrine that is the foundation of the teaching. There is a progression from the Millerites to the dispensationalists which is very interesting.

And, before someone accuses him of being ignorant, he taught at Moody Bible Institute, which is one of the primary sources of dispensationalism teaching in the USA. He realized the problems with dispensationalism and left eventually.

Jesus has a better one
The bible.
I recommend it over those omitting Jesus vivid portrayal of a pretrib gathering of his bride
 
Jul 23, 2018
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By the way, I know some Pentecostals are claiming they hear God speaking audibly.

The Pentecostal chaplain I worked with claimed he heard God speaking audibly.

This was one reason I decided to stop doing ministry with those guys. I am not going to be a party to this type of deception for self-glory.
With any man you hook up with you have to spit out the seeds.
That dynamic will never go away.
We are flawed and need each other.
The one thing not negotiable is the testimony.
Our experience with God is precious. It is part of our spiritual dna.
I have seen God meet people and touch them mightily.

Then some "brother" comes to tell them it was bogus.

That is pitiful
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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Jesus has a better one
The bible.
I recommend it over those omitting Jesus vivid portrayal of a pretrib gathering of his bride
Pentecostals and others glory in their ignorance of church history. That's part of the reason why this thread meets with some level of resistance. They don't want to face that the nut doesn't fall far from the nut tree.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
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With any man you hook up with you have to spit out the seeds.
That dynamic will never go away.
We are flawed and need each other.
The one thing not negotiable is the testimony.
Our experience with God is precious. It is part of our spiritual dna.
I have seen God meet people and touch them mightily.

Then some "brother" comes to tell them it was bogus.

That is pitiful
Provide a specific example, please.

Then we can evaluate it.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
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With any man you hook up with you have to spit out the seeds.
That dynamic will never go away.
We are flawed and need each other.
The one thing not negotiable is the testimony.
Our experience with God is precious. It is part of our spiritual dna.
I have seen God meet people and touch them mightily.

Then some "brother" comes to tell them it was bogus.

That is pitiful
You know, assuming this was an evangelistic encounter, the testimony should have been focused on Jesus, and what he has done on the Cross.

If your focus isn't on this, but is on some weird story, then you are talking about the wrong thing anyways.

Testimonies are subjective and prove nothing. The Word of God is the foundation of truth. If you reason with someone from Scripture, then you're talking about solid ground.

Anytime I'm talking to a man, he might be lying. Therefore, anything he says is subject to doubt. If he tells an outlandish story, that is meaningless. Speaking the word of God is a different story.

I'll give you an example. Someone told me a story about how they met God in a vision, and this led to his conversion. Then, later on, he related information about other accounts that were not accurate to the truth. These were details I knew about. Now, I cannot help but think he may have been lying all along about his vision. I want to believe the guy, but now I cannot believe him. This is one of the few circumstances that I believed claims about visions. He is a friend of mine, and I like him, and am sadly disappointed about it. But such is the reality of people claiming visions that they may or may not have had.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Pentecostals and others glory in their ignorance of church history. That's part of the reason why this thread meets with some level of resistance. They don't want to face that the nut doesn't fall far from the nut tree.
Church history is full of heresy.
The Catholics burned entire sects of believers and their writings .

Are you saying the heretical parts are to be adhered to also?