The Doctrine of Hell: Under Attack

[Magenta]

Does Scripture say: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believesin him shall not be tortured and tormented in a fiery burning hell forever after, but have eternal life?
NO.

Scripture says: For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Perish = word 622 in Strong's Concordance.

Strong's Concordance

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly

Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing
(the resultant death being viewed as certain).

HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

 

[Locutus]

Incoming...

 

[PrynceNY]

The question made your religious head explode so bad it resulted in you making attacks on someones character, assuming they do not know the Word, and conjectures about ones ministry and the fruit is has bared you know nothing about.... Pity your mouth erases any anointing you seem you have....

No one said anything about constantly speaking Hell to "mature saints" but you. That is not even what the topic is about. If you dont want to hear about hell you dont have to. However that will never stop members telling others who may be new to the faith.

 

[CherieR]

Funny how some of you go directly against what the Bible teaches here....Where does it say in the Bible that the Holy Spirit uses fear of hell to lead someone to repentance?!

I know from experience that the Holy Spirit can lead people to Jesus by fear of hell. I went to Jesus because I was afraid of hell.

 

[Nehemiah6]

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

Vine's Expository Dictionary clears up the meaning, and that applies directly to "a miserable end" in Hell. So this is not "extinction" but loss of well-being for eternity.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words

Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive

A — 1: ἀπόλλυμι

(Strong's #622 — Verb — apollumi — ap-ol'-loo-mee )

a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being.

This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luke 5:37 ; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luke 15:4,6 , etc.; the lost son, Luke 15:24 ; of the perishing of food, John 6:27 ; of gold, 1 Peter 1:7 . So of persons, Matthew 2:13 , "destroy;" Matthew 8:25 , "perish;" Matthew 22:7 ;27:20 ; of the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter, Matthew 10:28 ; Luke 13:3,5 ; John 3:16 (ver. 15 in some mss.); 10:28; 17:12; Romans 2:12 ; 1 Corinthians 15:18 ; 2 Corinthians 2:15 , "are perishing;" 2 Corinthians 4:3 ; 2 Thessalonians 2:10 ; James 4:12 ; 2 Peter 3:9 . Cp. B, II, No. 1. See DIE , LOSE , MARRED ,PERISH.

 

[Meggido]

No one said anything about constantly speaking Hell to "mature saints" but you. That is not even what the topic is about. If you dont want to hear about hell you dont have to. However that will never stop members telling others who may be new to the faith.

then you stop making it personal and making character attacks on people and ministry that you know nothing about.....

 

[notuptome]

Conviction of judgment is one of the actions of the Holy Spirit when confronting a man over their sin.

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Hell is described as a place of outer darkness.

Mt 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Also Mr 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Meggido]

Conviction of judgment is one of the actions of the Holy Spirit when confronting a man over their sin.

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Hell is described as a place of outer darkness.

Mt 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Also Mr 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I do not disagree with any of this or what others have said...it is always the smallest things that make peacock pride manifest...I asked why this topic would be needed for spiritually mature saints...and all HELL broke loose....

 

[valiant]

Vine's Expository Dictionary clears up the meaning, and that applies directly to "a miserable end" in Hell. So this is not "extinction" but loss of well-being for eternity.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words

Destroy, Destroyer, Destruction, Destructive

A — 1: ἀπόλλυμι

(Strong's #622 — Verb — apollumi — ap-ol'-loo-mee )

a strengthened form of ollumi, signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being.

This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luke 5:37 ; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luke 15:4,6 , etc.; the lost son, Luke 15:24 ; of the perishing of food, John 6:27 ; of gold, 1 Peter 1:7 . So of persons, Matthew 2:13 , "destroy;" Matthew 8:25 , "perish;" Matthew 22:7 ;27:20 ; of the loss of well-being in the case of the unsaved hereafter, Matthew 10:28 ; Luke 13:3,5 ; John 3:16 (ver. 15 in some mss.); 10:28; 17:12; Romans 2:12 ; 1 Corinthians 15:18 ; 2 Corinthians 2:15 , "are perishing;" 2 Corinthians 4:3 ; 2 Thessalonians 2:10 ; James 4:12 ; 2 Peter 3:9 . Cp. B, II, No. 1. See DIE , LOSE , MARRED ,PERISH.

When Plato was arguing for the immortality of the soul he said that the soul could not be destroyed (apollumi)'

Thus he sees apollumi as meaning in context destruction. And he happened to be greek,

 

[Ahwatukee]

You are mixing the terms hell (hades) and the lake of fire.

Hello Locutus,

Actually, in most translations the word "Hell" is mistranslated for three individual places, Hades, Tartartus and the lake of fire:

Hades/Sheol: The place of departed spirits under the earth. Properly, the unseen place. All who die without Christ go into Hades, which is a place of torment in flame, just as the rich man of Lazarus fame went to (Luke 16:19-31), where they will remain until after the millennial period where they will be resurrected to stand at the great white throne judgment.

Tartartus/Tartaroo: This place is mentioned only once in 2 Peter 2:4 as the place where those angels, who sinned were sent, which are most likely those angels, those sons of God, who sinned by taking wives from the progeny of mankind and thereby defiling themselves with women. Jude 6 also mentions these angels as being bound in darkness until the day of judgment.

Gehenna: This is in reference to the lake of fire, the second death, which is the end punishment for all who die in their sins. After the millennial kingdom the great white throne judgment will take place where all of the unrighteous dead will be resurrected, their spirits being released from Hades/Sheol and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment. The books will be opened and they will be held accountable for every idle word they every spoke. Anyone's name not found in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Therefore, those who read should look to see what word is being translated as hell to differentiate between Sheol/Hades and Gehenna, to understand which place is being referred to. Everywhere the word Hades is used, is referring to the place of departed souls under the earth. Everywhere Gehenna is used, is in reference to the final judgment, also called the lake of fire or the second death.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that man or the soul of man is immortal...

Were you indoctrinated at some time by some cultist or did you determine this from your own Bible study? Well here is just one Scripture to thoroughly refute what you stated (Luke 16:22-24):

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell [Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

So this man's body was buried, but his soul was not only fully conscious in Hades, but also in torment. In view of this one Scripture, should we expect a retraction of your false doctrine from you and an assent to the truth about the conscious torment of souls in Hell (and even Hades) after they die?

The sad this is that one can provide clear Scriptural proof about certain things, but people will still not repent and retract and reject their false notions.

 

[valiant]

Gehenna: This is in reference to the lake of fire, the second death, which is the end punishment for all who die in their sins. After the millennial kingdom the great white throne judgment will take place where all of the unrighteous dead will be resurrected, their spirits being released from Hades/Sheol and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment. The books will be opened and they will be held accountable for every idle word they every spoke. Anyone's name not found in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.

.

They are throw in DEAD, as opposed to the beast and false prophet who are thrown in ALIVE.

Death and Hades are DESTROYED in the lake of fire, not made to suffer eternally.

 

[Meggido]

Were you indoctrinated at some time by some cultist or did you determine this from your won Bible study? Well here is just one Scripture to thoroughly refute what you stated (Luke 16:22-24):

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

How polite you are to those who disagree with you...careful now, visitors and guests dislike hypocrites worse than their false doctrine..

 

[valiant]

Were you indoctrinated at some time by some cultist or did you determine this from your won Bible study? Well here is just one Scripture to thoroughly refute what you stated (Luke 16:22-24):

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

but this is the intermediate state. It is not their final position.

I am still waiting for ONE SCRIPTURE which says men will be tormented in Hell for ever.

 

[Ahwatukee]

4th is sheol.

Which is, BTW another example of how the KJV is not a good translation to use today.

Just FYI, Sheol is the Hebrew counterpart to the Greek Hades, which are referring to the same place.

 

[CherieR]

I do not disagree with any of this or what others have said...it is always the smallest things that make peacock pride manifest...I asked why this topic would be needed for spiritually mature saints...and all HELL broke loose....[/QUOTE

Discussion about hell among believers even if they know all about hell, may serve as motivation to tell others about Jesus or pray for others salvation. You are right that those who receive Jesus will not go to hell. A discussion of hell can also remind us how the Lord has had mercy on us by dying for our sins and rising again.

 

[Ahwatukee]

And now the crown prince of false rapture teaching assumes I have no clue what the Fear of the Lord is....

I did not single you out. I said "all believers." Pay attention! As for the gathering of the church, the truth of it will be made obvious to you and all very soon.

 

[Willie-T]

I know from experience that the Holy Spirit can lead people to Jesus by fear of hell. I went to Jesus because I was afraid of hell.

I was also baptized because of hoping to be able to buy Fire Insurance. It took many more years to finally meet the love of Jesus.

 

[valiant]

Just FYI, Sheol is the Hebrew counterpart to the Greek Hades, which are referring to the same place.

Comparison of Hades and Sheol reveal very different concepts. In Sheol the dead know nothing, in Hades they are conscious. Sheol is based on the Biblical concept of a mortal soul. The word Hades comes from Greek philosophy where they believed in an immortal soul

 

[Meggido]

I do not disagree with any of this or what others have said...it is always the smallest things that make peacock pride manifest...I asked why this topic would be needed for spiritually mature saints...and all HELL broke loose....[/QUOTE

Discussion about hell among believers even if they know all about hell, may serve as motivation to tell others about Jesus or pray for others salvation. You are right that those who receive Jesus will not go to hell. A discussion of hell can also remind us how the Lord has had mercy on us by dying for our sins and rising again.

Where in the Bible does it say that we need to remind ourselves what we were saved from?

This is going to the tomb and visiting the dead man that should be buried with Christ...