The falling away
- Thread starter just-me
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Satan doesn’t want God’s children to see the reality of the truth, he wants us to reject it, so I feel I should address the false doctrine that says the law given to Moses is weak, for the sake of throwing it away. For the purpose of shedding light on this doctrine, that I believe is the basis for the “falling away”. In summary, I will recap my experiences, and the words of others who demand the Mosaic Law to be labeled as nothing more than carnal, or physical.
I begin by quoting a verse that is so often used by this doctrine that wants to negate the Mosaic Law. Romans 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by *nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Those that want the law of Moses to vanish away, claim that these Gentiles were believers in Christ capable of obeying the law in the Spirit without its instructions. Those same people defame the law by means of physical innuendoes only, or carnal only, when Paul says the “the law is Spiritual.” They use this scripture as a means to say that Christians know automatically have the law of God in their hearts without need instruction. This is a mindset that enhances the “falling away” from the truth.
So I went to the concordance and this is what I found.
*Nature 5449=from 5453 meaning growth by germination (natural production).
It is very important that we understand that the Mosaic Law has numerous instructions as to how to take care of crops, fruit trees, and farmland, let alone the building of houses, preparation, and storage of food. It also gives instructions concerning defecation, and things related for cleanliness. With that said, I don’t think that Paul was saying the Gentiles were saved, as such, because they kept the law by *nature.
Another verse that has the same Greek word *nature is;
Galatians 2:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“We who are Jews by *nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,” This verse clearly points out that Jews, and all mankind, for that matter, are conceived and born according to our heritage, and the child born cannot change that.
I begin by quoting a verse that is so often used by this doctrine that wants to negate the Mosaic Law. Romans 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by *nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Those that want the law of Moses to vanish away, claim that these Gentiles were believers in Christ capable of obeying the law in the Spirit without its instructions. Those same people defame the law by means of physical innuendoes only, or carnal only, when Paul says the “the law is Spiritual.” They use this scripture as a means to say that Christians know automatically have the law of God in their hearts without need instruction. This is a mindset that enhances the “falling away” from the truth.
So I went to the concordance and this is what I found.
*Nature 5449=from 5453 meaning growth by germination (natural production).
It is very important that we understand that the Mosaic Law has numerous instructions as to how to take care of crops, fruit trees, and farmland, let alone the building of houses, preparation, and storage of food. It also gives instructions concerning defecation, and things related for cleanliness. With that said, I don’t think that Paul was saying the Gentiles were saved, as such, because they kept the law by *nature.
Another verse that has the same Greek word *nature is;
Galatians 2:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“We who are Jews by *nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,” This verse clearly points out that Jews, and all mankind, for that matter, are conceived and born according to our heritage, and the child born cannot change that.
Now to completely identify what Paul was saying, we have to direct our thoughts to the beginning of time. These verses in Genesis show all people, whether saved of unsaved, that *nature is the way it is from the beginning of time. It is the law of the natural the creation of things.
Every person that has ever lived, whether saved or unsaved, lives with *nature as God has created the *natural, otherwise they die physically. It’s a natural survival instinct.
Genesis 1:11-13 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the third day.
As we can see, these records, of the physical creation, are given to all mankind for us to live within God’s *natural creation with a rational mind, and common sense. The point that Paul was making, in Romans 2:14, was that we are exhorted to be doers, and not just hearers. Verse 15 actually incorporates the heart, mind and soul of the individual. To all mankind, it’s a do or die situation.
Heart=the core of character
Conscience=awareness through the soul
Thoughts=action of the mind
Romans 2:13-15 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP](For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by *nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Paul was using the Gentiles’ reaction to nature as a parable for understanding. He just as well could have said, ‘look at these Gentiles; if they don’t get their crops planted in time, they won’t have anything to eat during the winter. It’s common sense that all can understand.’
Every person that has ever lived, whether saved or unsaved, lives with *nature as God has created the *natural, otherwise they die physically. It’s a natural survival instinct.
Genesis 1:11-13 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the evening and the morning were the third day.
As we can see, these records, of the physical creation, are given to all mankind for us to live within God’s *natural creation with a rational mind, and common sense. The point that Paul was making, in Romans 2:14, was that we are exhorted to be doers, and not just hearers. Verse 15 actually incorporates the heart, mind and soul of the individual. To all mankind, it’s a do or die situation.
Heart=the core of character
Conscience=awareness through the soul
Thoughts=action of the mind
Romans 2:13-15 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP](For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by *nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Paul was using the Gentiles’ reaction to nature as a parable for understanding. He just as well could have said, ‘look at these Gentiles; if they don’t get their crops planted in time, they won’t have anything to eat during the winter. It’s common sense that all can understand.’
if there is anyone left with any dignity and isn't unreasonable would just like to show you something, this is the jews telling pilate to let Jesus get crucified and this is what they said [h=3]Matthew 27:23-25[/h]King James Version (KJV)
23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
the scriptures add up this must be fulfilled and where was in fulfilled?
[h=3]Revelation 6:9-11[/h]King James Version (KJV)
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
a born again believer would never ask for vengeance against anyone because they know this world is not their world and it doesn't matter what happens here, so we can see that this is the Jews and there eyes haven't been open as yet remember the bible said they were purposely blinded by God, the church( bride of christ ) will be long gone before the 5th seal is open
23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
the scriptures add up this must be fulfilled and where was in fulfilled?
[h=3]Revelation 6:9-11[/h]King James Version (KJV)
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
a born again believer would never ask for vengeance against anyone because they know this world is not their world and it doesn't matter what happens here, so we can see that this is the Jews and there eyes haven't been open as yet remember the bible said they were purposely blinded by God, the church( bride of christ ) will be long gone before the 5th seal is open
thanks, there is a miscommunication between us, and that is okay, I believe god to do what God has done and am able by God living through me to perform, not I but God through me and thus do the Spirit of the Law Love of God
This is what I see the others here trying to say to you, and you are not hearing this, stuck on shoving grace in the throat
And I personally am sorry over this useless battle
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ: and I myself no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And the real life I now have within this body is a result of my trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
By this; one is a doer of the Spirit of the Law that the Old Testament Saints understood and lived by, many not all.
Sorry you are not seeing the motives behind these others that you are without maybe knowing it condemning and they thus are condemning back. It Is A flesh fight EG, even though you are stubborn in thinking you are not flesh fighting when you are Brother.
Was Moses under Law, or did Moses see the Spirit of the Law? Try to tell all the rest this truth.
the miracles he did, they were done by Faith in God were they not?
Yes the Law in letter was and is to show one's need for God. because the Law is perfect and no one can live up to it, that is truth.
And therefore no one can live up to Christ and Love as Christ did either right?
This is what I see the others here trying to say to you, and you are not hearing this, stuck on shoving grace in the throat
And I personally am sorry over this useless battle
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ: and I myself no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And the real life I now have within this body is a result of my trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
By this; one is a doer of the Spirit of the Law that the Old Testament Saints understood and lived by, many not all.
Sorry you are not seeing the motives behind these others that you are without maybe knowing it condemning and they thus are condemning back. It Is A flesh fight EG, even though you are stubborn in thinking you are not flesh fighting when you are Brother.
Was Moses under Law, or did Moses see the Spirit of the Law? Try to tell all the rest this truth.
the miracles he did, they were done by Faith in God were they not?
Yes the Law in letter was and is to show one's need for God. because the Law is perfect and no one can live up to it, that is truth.
And therefore no one can live up to Christ and Love as Christ did either right?
no matter what one's flesh view let us just ask god to show god's love that is unfathomable to te flesh please, thanks for I know this to be true
Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
So let us let God to do this below to each of us, thanks
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ: and I myself no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And the real life I now have within this body is a result of my trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
So let us let God to do this below to each of us, thanks
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ: and I myself no longer live, but Christ lives in me. And the real life I now have within this body is a result of my trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
As you are, I am striving for peace. I have marked those that cause division. For the sake of the truth, I contend for the faith. Thank you brother for the exhortation.
Jude 1:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
One of those saints was Moses, as you mentioned to Eternally-gratefull in post 223
Jude 1:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
One of those saints was Moses, as you mentioned to Eternally-gratefull in post 223
Last edited:
Is not the falling away the flesh, when Adam and Eve ate and became aware of their being naked, their eyes were opened to the flesh and death came to all?
And Christ came to gives us the life we all need and is that not in the Spirit of God?
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
so what is the killer is it not the flesh; so after the cross, the devil has been judged right, all that is left is the flesh to be killed. and by belief in the finished work of Christ, we can see what he did is make us Holy before Father so we can receive the gift of new life in the Spirit of God
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Did he do as it states above, can anyone improve on Holy?
And Christ came to gives us the life we all need and is that not in the Spirit of God?
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
so what is the killer is it not the flesh; so after the cross, the devil has been judged right, all that is left is the flesh to be killed. and by belief in the finished work of Christ, we can see what he did is make us Holy before Father so we can receive the gift of new life in the Spirit of God
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Did he do as it states above, can anyone improve on Holy?
maybe just learn to let your flesh be dead with God right here and now daily, so that you might be able to hear how to answer in the Spirit of God, Paul is pretty clear here on this
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Philippians 3:10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Philippians 3:11 if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
The flesh is very tricky as to not want to be at fault, so it claims the Law is at fault, and nothing can be further from the truth. The Law is not at fault, flesh is the problem, written by Paul all over the epistles he wrote
praying for us to see this truth in Father through Christ
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Philippians 3:10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Philippians 3:11 if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
The flesh is very tricky as to not want to be at fault, so it claims the Law is at fault, and nothing can be further from the truth. The Law is not at fault, flesh is the problem, written by Paul all over the epistles he wrote
praying for us to see this truth in Father through Christ