The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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I see the blessed hope in the word of God very clearly and I teach the coming of the Lord is soon. :)
That's a general observation unto all those that want to take out half of the bible because they can't deem it being possible. The Universe being created by God makes anything possible unto God. The point stands, all hose who cant see the Pre Trib Rapture are in error, SMILE.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Already did but I copy/pasted it for you!


Let's examine the 200 A.D. Verse Luke 21:
36 But watch at every time, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of man.

Why do we need Strength to escape a Rapture?

We need Strength to escape a Snare and Delusion/Lies?

Christ said that WE need STRENGTH to Escape, but the rapture, we would not need strength because we are just Rapture'd.

So clearly, Verse 36 is speaking about Paul's Delusion, not Rapture [where we need no strength for that].
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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then take out take out 1thess chapter 4 and 1cor 15:50-54 or Matthew 24 take out the Noah account of the Ark or the crossing of the Red sea, how about the fourth man in the ferry furnace just rip it all out. From what we read in the word of God it is completely far-fetched that God could raise the dead and then take up into heaven those who are alive. Elijah was taken up in the chariot all is Baloney.

Its myths, folklore, added in by the RCC church fairytales.
I think you are being facitious.

The thing is, the end of an age only comes ONCE.

How then can you compare the end of an age with things that happened IN the age?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Let's examine the 200 A.D. Verse Luke 21:
36 But watch at every time, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of man.

Why do we need Strength to escape a Rapture?

We need Strength to escape a Snare and Delusion/Lies?

Christ said that WE need STRENGTH to Escape, but the rapture, we would not need strength because we are just Rapture'd.

So clearly, Verse 36 is speaking about Paul's Delusion, not Rapture [where we need no strength for that].
"strength to escape"

One reasons why I favor the interpretation that the intended audience are Israelites (and gentiles perhaps) who go through the great tribulation. In other words the intended audience is not the Church per se because they have been raptured beforehand.

These Israelites and gentiles survivors consequently stand before the Son of Man who has come to reign in His kingdom.....as wedding guests who attend the wedding supper.

We have to remember that the Bible will still be available and read in the time of the tribulation.
No doubt that many of these Scriptures are meant to build up their faith and endurance. The Book of Revelation from chapters 6 through 18 have nothing whatsoever to do with the Church therefore they must be written for a different audience......those who come to faith in Jesus Christ during the time of the tribulation both Israelites and Gentiles.

I have to agree that other interpretations for some of these verses are certainly viable.....therefore it is unwise to be too dogmatic. However I also believe that certain interpretations are hard and fast and very unequivocal. And I think that the pre-trib rapture of the Church is one of those boilerplate doctrines.

But the bottom line is that you want to receive Christ as Lord and Savior.....NOW.....today without delay. Do not spare one moment do not spare one second. Now is the age of Grace, the Church age, now is the opportunity to be raptured FROM the Day of God's wrath (Revelation 3:10) coming up on all those who dwell upon the earth.
 
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"strength to escape"

One reasons why I favor the interpretation that the intended audience are Israelites (and gentiles perhaps) who go through the great tribulation. In other words the intended audience is not the Church per se because they have been raptured beforehand.

These Israelites and gentiles survivors consequently stand before the Son of Man who has come to reign in His kingdom.....as wedding guests who attend the wedding supper.

We have to remember that the Bible will still be available and read in the time of the tribulation.
No doubt that many of these Scriptures are meant to build up their faith and endurance. The Book of Revelation from chapters 6 through 18 have nothing whatsoever to do with the Church therefore they must be written for a different audience......those who come to faith in Jesus Christ during the time of the tribulation both Israelites and Gentiles.

I have to agree that other interpretations for some of these verses are certainly viable.....therefore it is unwise to be too dogmatic. However I also believe that certain interpretations are hard and fast and very unequivocal. And I think that the pre-trib rapture of the Church is one of those boilerplate doctrines.

But the bottom line is that you want to receive Christ as Lord and Savior.....NOW.....today without delay. Do not spare one moment do not spare one second. Now is the age of Grace, the Church age, now is the opportunity to be raptured FROM the Day of God's wrath (Revelation 3:10) coming up on all those who dwell upon the earth.
We, and you are unaware of this, but we do align very much on Scripture and differ on interpretation. But the Verses you use for pre-Trib don't and have ever claimed pre-trib. You have just puzzled it that way.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
1 Cor 15:23 says that "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected "when He comes". So no one has a "choice" as you assume.

The Bible doesn't teach that. So you must have made that up.

I've just given you 4 verses that SAY that there is A resurrection of the saved. That's hardly "an isolated verse". Your defense mechanisms need a lot of work.


Seriously, "hint"?? No, 1 For 15:23 speaks PLAINLY and STRAIGHTFORWARD about it. btw, "those who belong to Him" would be everyone who has believed on Him.

But if you'd like to argue that "those who belong to Him" CANNOT be any OT believer, be my guest.

Everyone who has believed in Christ for salvation belongs to Him. It would be insanity to claim otherwise.

Your argument fails.


You have all the verses you need to believe that there is just ONE resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.


What, exactly, is this "escape plan"? For over 2,000 years, the "church" has suffered EXTREME persecution all over the world. And it's about to hit the shores of the USA.

If believers have been severely persecuted for over 2,000 years, what makes you think God is going to have an "escape plan" for probably the most carnal and weak generation of believers EVER????

The longer time goes on, the worse the state of Christianity is. Just look across Christianity and count the various and different positions there are. We have Calvinists, Arminians, Mormons, SDA, etc.


I would like to see it and read it. Please.


What, the "escape plan"? Then your "escape plan" is for whom, exactly?
You are forming doctrine from an isolated verse again! Why pounce on 1 Cor. 15 and IGNORE 1 Thes. 4? There is adds those "in Christ."

However, in NEITHER PLACE does it add the word "all" All who are in Christ, or all who believe in Him.
I submit, do to another verse, that someone IN CHRIST who at the same time holds unforgiveness against someone does not qualify to be raptured. Why? Because they are not forgiven by the Father.
Another verse is just as clear as these: God says, if you don't forgive others, then I won't forgive you.

Can you somehow imagine someone NOT FORGIVEN will be raptured?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I think you are being facitious.

The thing is, the end of an age only comes ONCE.

How then can you compare the end of an age with things that happened IN the age?
the end of the age and the coming of the lord is to be seen in the context and light of all the word of God. When Jesus said He would return the end of the age was set.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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Already did but I copy/pasted it for you!


Let's examine the 200 A.D. Verse Luke 21:
36 But watch at every time, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of man.

Why do we need Strength to escape a Rapture?

We need Strength to escape a Snare and Delusion/Lies?

Christ said that WE need STRENGTH to Escape, but the rapture, we would not need strength because we are just Rapture'd.

So clearly, Verse 36 is speaking about Paul's Delusion, not Rapture [where we need no strength for that].
I go by the kjv, which says to pray that we may be counted worthy to escape those things which shall come upon the earth.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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I go by the kjv, which says to pray that we may be counted worthy to escape those things which shall come upon the earth.
Why would you go by a Translation that is 1600 years away from the Truth?

I go by the Translation that is less than 100 years away from the last Apostle, John.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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I said:
"I've just given you 4 verses that SAY that there is A resurrection of the saved. That's hardly "an isolated verse". Your defense mechanisms need a lot of work."
You are forming doctrine from an isolated verse again!
Are you unable to read?

Why pounce on 1 Cor. 15 and IGNORE 1 Thes. 4? There is adds those "in Christ."
The words "in Christ" refer to the LIVING believers. There are NO living OT believers. They are all included in the saints who come with King Jesus.

However, in NEITHER PLACE does it add the word "all" All who are in Christ, or all who believe in Him.
Again, you seem to have a comprehension problem. The phrase "those who belong to Him" HAS TO include ALL of them, since it doesn't specifically exclude ANY of them. I can't believe I'm having to explain this to you.

I submit, do to another verse, that someone IN CHRIST who at the same time holds unforgiveness against someone does not qualify to be raptured. Why? Because they are not forgiven by the Father.
Please show me the verse that ANY believer can be denied receiving a glorified body, because that is the purpose of being raptured.

Another verse is just as clear as these: God says, if you don't forgive others, then I won't forgive you.
What you seem to not understand is that sin breaks fellowship with God. And failing to forgive others is a sin, so if it isn't confessed, per 1 John 1:9 that sin won't be forgiven nor cleansed.

Can you somehow imagine someone NOT FORGIVEN will be raptured?
What I can't imagine is any believer who so completely FAILS to comprehend what is so straightforward.

Again, please show me the verse that actually denies any living believer from receiving a glorified body, "when He comes".

Because I don't believe the Bible says that.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Why would you go by a Translation that is 1600 years away from the Truth?

I go by the Translation that is less than 100 years away from the last Apostle, John.
Where do you get access to that translation? And how do you know that it was written in 200 A.D.? And, do you read it in English or do you have to be fluent in Greek and Hebrew in order to read it?

I believe that God is both sovereign and Omnipotent and loving.

Because He is sovereign and Omnipotent, He is able to preserve His unadulterated message in the translation that is contended for as containing the inerrant and inspired word of the Lord.

Because He is loving, He was motivated to do so.

The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus while the common people heard Him gladly.

Likewise, today, educated Greek and Hebrew scholars (even the amateur ones) are inclined to reject Jesus while those who read the Bible in the kjv, in the English language, are more inclined to receive Him as Saviour and as Lord;

And, if they do not abide in watered down translations, they are more likely to continue in the faith and to be wholly sanctified in the end.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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I go by the kjv, which says to pray that we may be counted worthy to escape those things which shall come upon the earth.
Check the greek. Strength is is a better translation....
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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True. Acts 24:15 says so.


Recall that the church has been around for over 2,000 years. So at this point, the VAST majority have already died and are in heaven.

So MOST of the Body of Christ's bodies ARE in the grave, waiting to be resurrected "when He comes". 1 Cor 15:23.
Yes the just and unjust. Good scripture regarding those to be judged.

Now the bodies of believers who are in heaven will be resurrected when they return with Jesus. However the Body of Christ is NOT subject to judgment, (the Great White Throne), but to rule and reign with the Lord on His own throne in the third heaven.

That is why the Body of Christ is raptured before the earthly judgments throughout the trib, for the believers will be the court that judges the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Let's examine the 200 A.D. Verse Luke 21:
36 But watch at every time, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of man.

Why do we need Strength to escape a Rapture?

The manuscripts do not say "strength". You are using a bad translation.


G2661
καταξιόω
kataxioō
kat-ax-ee-o'-o
From G2596 and G515; to deem entirely deserving: - (ac-) count worthy.
Total KJV occurrences: 4

G2661
καταξιόω
kataxioō
Thayer Definition:
1) to account worthy, judge worthy
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2596 and G515
Citing in TDNT: 1:380, 63



The word doesn't have anything to do with strength.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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The manuscripts do not say "strength". You are using a bad translation.


G2661
καταξιόω
kataxioō
kat-ax-ee-o'-o
From G2596 and G515; to deem entirely deserving: - (ac-) count worthy.
Total KJV occurrences: 4

G2661
καταξιόω
kataxioō
Thayer Definition:
1) to account worthy, judge worthy
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2596 and G515
Citing in TDNT: 1:380, 63



The word doesn't have anything to do with strength.
I am using the 200 A.D. Codex. It's more legit than newer translations.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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I am using the 200 A.D. Codex. It's more legit than newer translations.

I'm not referring to a translation but the word in the Greek manuscripts. The Greek word for strength is not used.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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I'm not referring to a translation but the word in the Greek manuscripts. The Greek word for strength is not used.
How do you know that? I've never seen the original writings before and neither have you.

The 200 year old translation of the Codex is Koine Greek, not Classical Greek, like the KJV.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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I am using the 200 A.D. Codex. It's more legit than newer translations.
There is no codex from 200 AD. The Peshitta is a translation of the Bible into Aramaic from around that time. So if you are are using the Peshitta (translated into English), it is not superior to the King James Bible.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Yes the just and unjust. Good scripture regarding those to be judged.
(y)

Now the bodies of believers who are in heaven will be resurrected when they return with Jesus. However the Body of Christ is NOT subject to judgment, (the Great White Throne), but to rule and reign with the Lord on His own throne in the third heaven.
Acts 24:15 says there will be a resurrection of the saved and unsaved. All believers will face the Bema, or Judgment Seat of Christ, per 2 Cor 5:10. This is to determine the level of rewards or loss of rewards.

According to Rev 20:4,5 the Tribulation martyrs will be resurrected and reign with Christ on earth. He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Since all believers will receive their glorified bodies at the Second Advent, who will make up the "nations" that Jesus will rule? It is obviously the unbelievers who survive the Tribulation.

That is why the Body of Christ is raptured before the earthly judgments throughout the trib, for the believers will be the court that judges the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)
Since there is only one resurrection for the saved, and that includes the living believers, all of whom receive resurrection bodies in 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15:52, IF this single resurrection occurs before the Tribulation, that renders Rev 20:4,5 as NOT true. Which cannot be.

2 Thess 2:1 tells us in plain words that the Second Advent and "rapture" (gathering) will occur together.

" Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,"
 
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