I see the blessed hope in the word of God very clearly and I teach the coming of the Lord is soon. 
The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
- Thread starter Marilyn
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
That's a general observation unto all those that want to take out half of the bible because they can't deem it being possible. The Universe being created by God makes anything possible unto God. The point stands, all hose who cant see the Pre Trib Rapture are in error, SMILE.
Already did but I copy/pasted it for you!
Let's examine the 200 A.D. Verse Luke 21:
36 But watch at every time, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of man.
Why do we need Strength to escape a Rapture?
We need Strength to escape a Snare and Delusion/Lies?
Christ said that WE need STRENGTH to Escape, but the rapture, we would not need strength because we are just Rapture'd.
So clearly, Verse 36 is speaking about Paul's Delusion, not Rapture [where we need no strength for that].
Let's examine the 200 A.D. Verse Luke 21:
36 But watch at every time, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of man.
Why do we need Strength to escape a Rapture?
We need Strength to escape a Snare and Delusion/Lies?
Christ said that WE need STRENGTH to Escape, but the rapture, we would not need strength because we are just Rapture'd.
So clearly, Verse 36 is speaking about Paul's Delusion, not Rapture [where we need no strength for that].
-
1
- Show all
"strength to escape"
One reasons why I favor the interpretation that the intended audience are Israelites (and gentiles perhaps) who go through the great tribulation. In other words the intended audience is not the Church per se because they have been raptured beforehand.
These Israelites and gentiles survivors consequently stand before the Son of Man who has come to reign in His kingdom.....as wedding guests who attend the wedding supper.
We have to remember that the Bible will still be available and read in the time of the tribulation.
No doubt that many of these Scriptures are meant to build up their faith and endurance. The Book of Revelation from chapters 6 through 18 have nothing whatsoever to do with the Church therefore they must be written for a different audience......those who come to faith in Jesus Christ during the time of the tribulation both Israelites and Gentiles.
I have to agree that other interpretations for some of these verses are certainly viable.....therefore it is unwise to be too dogmatic. However I also believe that certain interpretations are hard and fast and very unequivocal. And I think that the pre-trib rapture of the Church is one of those boilerplate doctrines.
But the bottom line is that you want to receive Christ as Lord and Savior.....NOW.....today without delay. Do not spare one moment do not spare one second. Now is the age of Grace, the Church age, now is the opportunity to be raptured FROM the Day of God's wrath (Revelation 3:10) coming up on all those who dwell upon the earth.
One reasons why I favor the interpretation that the intended audience are Israelites (and gentiles perhaps) who go through the great tribulation. In other words the intended audience is not the Church per se because they have been raptured beforehand.
These Israelites and gentiles survivors consequently stand before the Son of Man who has come to reign in His kingdom.....as wedding guests who attend the wedding supper.
We have to remember that the Bible will still be available and read in the time of the tribulation.
No doubt that many of these Scriptures are meant to build up their faith and endurance. The Book of Revelation from chapters 6 through 18 have nothing whatsoever to do with the Church therefore they must be written for a different audience......those who come to faith in Jesus Christ during the time of the tribulation both Israelites and Gentiles.
I have to agree that other interpretations for some of these verses are certainly viable.....therefore it is unwise to be too dogmatic. However I also believe that certain interpretations are hard and fast and very unequivocal. And I think that the pre-trib rapture of the Church is one of those boilerplate doctrines.
But the bottom line is that you want to receive Christ as Lord and Savior.....NOW.....today without delay. Do not spare one moment do not spare one second. Now is the age of Grace, the Church age, now is the opportunity to be raptured FROM the Day of God's wrath (Revelation 3:10) coming up on all those who dwell upon the earth.
-
1
- Show all
You are forming doctrine from an isolated verse again! Why pounce on 1 Cor. 15 and IGNORE 1 Thes. 4? There is adds those "in Christ."
However, in NEITHER PLACE does it add the word "all" All who are in Christ, or all who believe in Him.
I submit, do to another verse, that someone IN CHRIST who at the same time holds unforgiveness against someone does not qualify to be raptured. Why? Because they are not forgiven by the Father.
Another verse is just as clear as these: God says, if you don't forgive others, then I won't forgive you.
Can you somehow imagine someone NOT FORGIVEN will be raptured?
However, in NEITHER PLACE does it add the word "all" All who are in Christ, or all who believe in Him.
I submit, do to another verse, that someone IN CHRIST who at the same time holds unforgiveness against someone does not qualify to be raptured. Why? Because they are not forgiven by the Father.
Another verse is just as clear as these: God says, if you don't forgive others, then I won't forgive you.
Can you somehow imagine someone NOT FORGIVEN will be raptured?
I said:
"I've just given you 4 verses that SAY that there is A resurrection of the saved. That's hardly "an isolated verse". Your defense mechanisms need a lot of work."
Are you unable to read?
The words "in Christ" refer to the LIVING believers. There are NO living OT believers. They are all included in the saints who come with King Jesus.
Again, you seem to have a comprehension problem. The phrase "those who belong to Him" HAS TO include ALL of them, since it doesn't specifically exclude ANY of them. I can't believe I'm having to explain this to you.
Please show me the verse that ANY believer can be denied receiving a glorified body, because that is the purpose of being raptured.
What you seem to not understand is that sin breaks fellowship with God. And failing to forgive others is a sin, so if it isn't confessed, per 1 John 1:9 that sin won't be forgiven nor cleansed.
What I can't imagine is any believer who so completely FAILS to comprehend what is so straightforward.
Again, please show me the verse that actually denies any living believer from receiving a glorified body, "when He comes".
Because I don't believe the Bible says that.
"I've just given you 4 verses that SAY that there is A resurrection of the saved. That's hardly "an isolated verse". Your defense mechanisms need a lot of work."
Are you unable to read?
The words "in Christ" refer to the LIVING believers. There are NO living OT believers. They are all included in the saints who come with King Jesus.
Again, you seem to have a comprehension problem. The phrase "those who belong to Him" HAS TO include ALL of them, since it doesn't specifically exclude ANY of them. I can't believe I'm having to explain this to you.
Please show me the verse that ANY believer can be denied receiving a glorified body, because that is the purpose of being raptured.
What you seem to not understand is that sin breaks fellowship with God. And failing to forgive others is a sin, so if it isn't confessed, per 1 John 1:9 that sin won't be forgiven nor cleansed.
What I can't imagine is any believer who so completely FAILS to comprehend what is so straightforward.
Again, please show me the verse that actually denies any living believer from receiving a glorified body, "when He comes".
Because I don't believe the Bible says that.
-
1
- Show all
Where do you get access to that translation? And how do you know that it was written in 200 A.D.? And, do you read it in English or do you have to be fluent in Greek and Hebrew in order to read it?
I believe that God is both sovereign and Omnipotent and loving.
Because He is sovereign and Omnipotent, He is able to preserve His unadulterated message in the translation that is contended for as containing the inerrant and inspired word of the Lord.
Because He is loving, He was motivated to do so.
The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus while the common people heard Him gladly.
Likewise, today, educated Greek and Hebrew scholars (even the amateur ones) are inclined to reject Jesus while those who read the Bible in the kjv, in the English language, are more inclined to receive Him as Saviour and as Lord;
And, if they do not abide in watered down translations, they are more likely to continue in the faith and to be wholly sanctified in the end.
I believe that God is both sovereign and Omnipotent and loving.
Because He is sovereign and Omnipotent, He is able to preserve His unadulterated message in the translation that is contended for as containing the inerrant and inspired word of the Lord.
Because He is loving, He was motivated to do so.
The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus while the common people heard Him gladly.
Likewise, today, educated Greek and Hebrew scholars (even the amateur ones) are inclined to reject Jesus while those who read the Bible in the kjv, in the English language, are more inclined to receive Him as Saviour and as Lord;
And, if they do not abide in watered down translations, they are more likely to continue in the faith and to be wholly sanctified in the end.
Yes the just and unjust. Good scripture regarding those to be judged.
Now the bodies of believers who are in heaven will be resurrected when they return with Jesus. However the Body of Christ is NOT subject to judgment, (the Great White Throne), but to rule and reign with the Lord on His own throne in the third heaven.
That is why the Body of Christ is raptured before the earthly judgments throughout the trib, for the believers will be the court that judges the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)
Now the bodies of believers who are in heaven will be resurrected when they return with Jesus. However the Body of Christ is NOT subject to judgment, (the Great White Throne), but to rule and reign with the Lord on His own throne in the third heaven.
That is why the Body of Christ is raptured before the earthly judgments throughout the trib, for the believers will be the court that judges the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)
The manuscripts do not say "strength". You are using a bad translation.
G2661
καταξιόω
kataxioō
kat-ax-ee-o'-o
From G2596 and G515; to deem entirely deserving: - (ac-) count worthy.
Total KJV occurrences: 4
G2661
καταξιόω
kataxioō
Thayer Definition:
1) to account worthy, judge worthy
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2596 and G515
Citing in TDNT: 1:380, 63
The word doesn't have anything to do with strength.
Acts 24:15 says there will be a resurrection of the saved and unsaved. All believers will face the Bema, or Judgment Seat of Christ, per 2 Cor 5:10. This is to determine the level of rewards or loss of rewards.
According to Rev 20:4,5 the Tribulation martyrs will be resurrected and reign with Christ on earth. He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Since all believers will receive their glorified bodies at the Second Advent, who will make up the "nations" that Jesus will rule? It is obviously the unbelievers who survive the Tribulation.
Since there is only one resurrection for the saved, and that includes the living believers, all of whom receive resurrection bodies in 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15:52, IF this single resurrection occurs before the Tribulation, that renders Rev 20:4,5 as NOT true. Which cannot be.
2 Thess 2:1 tells us in plain words that the Second Advent and "rapture" (gathering) will occur together.
" Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,"
-
1
- Show all
- Status