The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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Dec 29, 2021
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49 is a Division of 7, the Number of God, which means PERFECTION/COMPLETION.

Clearly, the Holy Spirit Inspired a number of [7], which Represents God, at 7x7=49, and Jerome, creates it into the number of Man [6] 66.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Why?

If wrath is merely implied, it isn't really wrath?
My challenge was that the word "wrath" (using the flood as an example) is not used .

Under a strict " prove a negative". There is no wrath at all by God unless the word " wrath" is alongside.
 
Dec 4, 2021
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Nope, Jesus told the Disciples he would send us the Holy Spirit when he died, the he brought us the Holy Spirit after ascending unto the Father to offer the Sacrifice. The Holy Spirit is the one who is to lead us into ALL TRUTH, so that's a myth that only the Disciples were so close to the Lord that they go all of the keys to the Gospel, we are all given that info if we seek God and hear the Holy Spirits small still voice. Too many people hear Satan the liar like Judas did, we even saw Peter hear his voice and Jesus had to rebuke Satan.
Yes Jesus did rebuke Peter told him he’s thinking like a man and not thinking with his spiritual mind because the Holy Spirit was not given yet Jesus was still with them it was after Jesus ascended to the father and the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost
 
Jul 23, 2018
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It's still better than the KJV which uses mythical creatures to describe the Hebrew Word for Loftiness as Unicorn and confirmed they did not fully understood Koine Greek so did their best translation through Classical Greek, which the 2 are as opposite from night and day.
We already addressed your "mythical creature" wild assertions.

All that reaching is going to get you into trouble with serious pulled muscles.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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My challenge was that the word "wrath" (using the flood as an example) is not used .

Under a strict " prove a negative". There is no wrath at all by God unless the word " wrath" is alongside.
Not necessarily the case.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Let's examine the 200 A.D. Verse Luke 21:
36 But watch at every time, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of man.
Why do we need Strength to escape a Rapture?
We need Strength to escape a Snare and Delusion/Lies?
Christ said that WE need STRENGTH to Escape, but the rapture, we would not need strength because we are just Rapture'd.
So clearly, Verse 36 is speaking about Paul's Delusion, not Rapture [where we need no strength for that].
[pre-tribber here :) ]

I've mentioned in other past posts of mine: Luke 21:36 is not a "rapture" verse, but a tribulation period verse;

the word "escape" here could legit be translated "[actively] FLEE OUT OF" (same word, used in the negative [they shall 'not flee out of'], in 1Thess 5:3, speaking of the same future tribulation period [that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture"], but here speaking of the ones to whom "God SHALL SEND to them great delusion SO THAT they should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" which will exist during those trib years;

...but He'll not be sending it to 100% of the ppl who will be existing on the earth at that time--some ppl will be coming to faith in Christ following "our Rapture," by contrast... and Lk21:36, the ppl following that particular "instruction" there [by faith], refers to those folks, and they will be enabled to "[actively] FLEE OUT OF each and every one of those things coming on the earth [during the trib yrs], and TO STAND BEFORE [in a judicial sense] the SON OF MAN [i.e. His earthly Millennial Kingdom designation]).




Bottom line, Luke 21:36 is not speaking of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" at all.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ P.S. ALL "Son of man cometh / coming of / comes / shall come / etc" passages speak of His Second Coming to the earth (to judge and to reign [i.e. FOR the earthly MK age])--not to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"


[so in view of Luke 21:36, under discussion, see Luke 21:27's "Son of man coming"... in this same context]
 
Jul 23, 2018
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[pre-tribber here :) ]

I've mentioned in other past posts of mine: Luke 21:36 is not a "rapture" verse, but a tribulation period verse;

the word "escape" here could legit be translated "[actively] FLEE OUT OF" (same word, used in the negative [they shall 'not flee out of'], in 1Thess 5:3, speaking of the same future tribulation period [that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture"], but here speaking of the ones to whom "God SHALL SEND to them great delusion SO THAT they should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" which will exist during those trib years;

...but He'll not be sending it to 100% of the ppl who will be existing on the earth at that time--some ppl will be coming to faith in Christ following "our Rapture," by contrast... and Lk21:36, the ppl following that particular "instruction" there [by faith], refers to those folks, and they will be enabled to "[actively] FLEE OUT OF each and every one of those things coming on the earth [during the trib yrs], and TO STAND BEFORE [in a judicial sense] the SON OF MAN [i.e. His earthly Millennial Kingdom designation]).




Bottom line, Luke 21:36 is not speaking of "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" at all.
Nope

◄ G2661 ►
καταξιόω

Transliteration
kataxioo;
Parts of Speech
v
KJV Translation Count — 4x
The KJV translates Strongs H1 in the following manner: count worthy (2), account worthy (2)
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/strongs/G2661

Account worthy of the rapture.
Only those worthy ones are raptured.
We see that same dimension in the 10 virgin parable.
We also see it several times in the 7 letters to the 7 churches.
As well as the "one taken/left"

Definately the rapture in luke 21:36
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Nope
◄ G2661 ►
καταξιόω
Transliteration
kataxioo;
Parts of Speech v
KJV Translation Count — 4x
The KJV translates Strongs H1 in the following manner: count worthy (2), account worthy (2)
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/strongs/G2661
Account worthy of the rapture.
Only those worthy ones are raptured.
Disagree (as you've long been aware :D ) and here's a cpl reasons why:

...besides what I put in my Post #489 -

^ P.S. ALL "Son of man cometh / coming of / comes / shall come / etc" passages speak of His Second Coming to the earth (to judge and to reign [i.e. FOR the earthly MK age])--not to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"


[so in view of Luke 21:36, under discussion, see Luke 21:27's "Son of man coming"... in this same context]




...one must also explain the MARKED DISTINCTION *between* (the following two verses):

--[Lk21:36] "[keep] WATCH [G69 - agrypneo ("equivalent to G1127 - gregoreo" - per BibleHub)] and pray always IN ORDER THAT [G2443] ye may _________..."
...(regardless of whether the next word, to fill in the blank, is G2661 - kataxioo [from your source, like BLB shows], OR G2729 - katischysete [like BibleHub shows]... regardless of which word, here, makes no difference to the point I'm showing...)

[and]

--[1Th5:10] "... THAT [G2443] whether we may WATCH [G1127 - gregoreo]
OR whether we may SLEEP [G2518 -
katheudó ; SAME TWO Grk words AND IDEAS expressed in v.6 of THIS CONTEXT (i.e. NOT speaking of "DEATH" like the previous chpt's vv.14,15,[16]'s G2837 - koimao )],
we should live together WITH [G4862 - syn - UNIONed-with] Him"

...(the "we" of this text ^ addressing "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence]), the "ONE BODY" to/for/about whom "our Rapture" pertains; it does NOT pertain to all OTHER saints of all OTHER time-periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints; and it will only occur ONCE [at ONE point in time]).







Your idea of "only WORTHY saints" being RAPTURED / CAUGHT UP / SNATCHED (FOR the "UNIONed-with Him" thing) is not jiving with the text; and also does not jive with how Paul told even the Corinthians (in 1Cor15:51-52), "...WE shall ALL be changed IN A MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye..." (that's at "our Rapture" event)... as well as the "WE... ALL" of 2Cor5:10 (re: the BEMA of Christ... and you may recall what I said about that and its connection with the word "WAS FOUND" in Rev5:4, before the FIRST SEAL is opened at the START of the "7 years" / Trib)
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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Could you point me to any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven?
Those passages have probably been posted 100 times. There are plenty of threads on this subject. Just check them out. So anyone asking such questions does not really understand salvation and what it entails.
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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Thank you. :)


It makes more sense to understand that all this WILL occur in the Millennial reign of Christ. Glorified believers WILL co-reign with Christ and pass judgment on the direction of King Jesus. The problem with a pretrib rapture and trip to heaven is that there are NO verses that show this at all. And the Bible teaches a single resurrection for the saved and a single resurrection for the unsaved.
`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE,....` (Rev. 3: 21)

(Father) `seated Him (Jesus) at His right hand in the heavenly places FAR ABOVE all principalities and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age BUT IN THAT WHICH IS TO COME. And He put ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET.`(Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

`Heaven is my throne and the earth my footstool.` (Isa. 66: 1)
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Could you point me to any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven?
Those passages have probably been posted 100 times.
Excuse me, but no, they haven't. EVER. I keep asking for at least one, but I've NEVER seen any.

There are plenty of threads on this subject. Just check them out.
If you are so aware of any of these "passages", why do you want to send me on a goose-chase? Can't you just quote or at least cite 1 verse/passage?

Why is that so difficult? If you really believe that Jesus does take resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, and there is a verse or passage saying so, why are you being so coy about it?

So anyone asking such questions does not really understand salvation and what it entails.
OK, so this is your default. Just claim those who don't believe your view "really can't" understand.

Well, that IS an easy out.

EVERY time I ask for verses clearly showing Jesus taking a group with glorified bodies to heaven, I get these kinds of ridiculous comments.

But thanks for providing the evidence that you DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE for such an idea.
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Could you point me to any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven?

Excuse me, but no, they haven't. EVER. I keep asking for at least one, but I've NEVER seen any.


If you are so aware of any of these "passages", why do you want to send me on a goose-chase? Can't you just quote or at least cite 1 verse/passage?

Why is that so difficult? If you really believe that Jesus does take resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, and there is a verse or passage saying so, why are you being so coy about it?


OK, so this is your default. Just claim those who don't believe your view "really can't" understand.

Well, that IS an easy out.

EVERY time I ask for verses clearly showing Jesus taking a group with glorified bodies to heaven, I get these kinds of ridiculous comments.

But thanks for providing the evidence that you DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE for such an idea.
`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE,....` (Rev. 3: 21)

(Father) `seated Him (Jesus) at His right hand in the heavenly places FAR ABOVE all principalities and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age BUT IN THAT WHICH IS TO COME. And He put ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET.`(Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

`Heaven is my throne and the earth my footstool.` (Isa. 66: 1)
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Those passages have probably been posted 100 times.

Nothing has been posted that actually showed anyone being taken to heaven. The verses never support the claims.
 

ewq1938

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`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE,....` (Rev. 3: 21)

All those letters have something like that addressing the reward overcomers receive so the throne is a reference to the Earthly thrown of eternity:

Rev_22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
 

Marilyn

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Jul 27, 2021
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All those letters have something like that addressing the reward overcomers receive so the throne is a reference to the Earthly thrown of eternity:

Rev_22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
God`s throne is forever in the highest - `Heaven is my throne and the earth my footstool.` (Isa. 66: 1)

`not only in this age BUT IN THAT WHICH IS TO COME. And He put ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET.`(Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

All other mention of `throne` refers to God`s AUTHORITY in those other realms.
 
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