The Law Debacle Resolved

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Kefa54

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#201
#201
I accepted Christ 26 years ago. I rest in his grace and I focus on the Holy Spirit in my life.
I am honest enough to admit that I still have trouble with the flesh. I can't agree more with Paul here. I can't "do all of what Jesus did and teaches."
I am not seeking any man's approval or opinion here. It is just where I am and I strive to grow from it every day and moment.

Kefa

Romans 7-14-24

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am made out of flesh, sold into sin's power. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing, because I do not practice what I want to do, but I do what I hate. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 So now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. a For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it. 19 For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me. 21 So I discover this principle: When I want to do what is good, evil is with me. 22 For in my inner self I joyfully agree with God's law. 23 But I see a different law in the parts of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and taking me prisoner to the law of sin in the parts of my body. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this dying body? e 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our

Holman Bible
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#202
Sep 4, 2012
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#202
gotime said:
So why do we not need the law after we have come to Christ?

Simple because the law was given to show us our sin that we needed saving from. once we are saved from it we are no longer breaking that law and thus no longer need it to point out our sin because we are no longer walking in sin. The law now written on our hearts.
Click to expand...
Which of the 10 commandments instructed the good Samaritan to be merciful to the wounded man by the side of the road? And which of the 10 commandments told the priest and Levite that they had sinned?
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#203
Mar 3, 2011
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#203
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Don't mean to be rude, but what an absurd statement. The 10 hang on the 2 greatest commandments that have been in force from Adam until now: have faith in GOD and love one's neighbor. So it is the 10 that can be placed aside and the law of righteousness still remains.
Click to expand...
So do you think you can love your neighbor and steal from them? or kill them? or spread false information about them?

Do you think you can love God and put other things before Him? and take his name in vain?

If you do then you don't know the greatest commandments.
If you don't then you can't place them aside.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#204
Sep 4, 2012
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#204
gotime said:
Why does the law lead us to Christ?
Because it shows us our need of saving. saving from what?
Saving from sin which is breaking the law. who saves us?
Jesus saves us. saves us from what?
Sin which is breaking the law.
You can not be saved from sin if you are still living in sin.
Click to expand...
Sin is breaking GOD's law, but which law?
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
#205
#205
I am not under law. Every time I turn back to the law I desecrate what Jesus did on the cross.

Luke 9-26... But Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Kefa
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#206
Mar 3, 2011
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#206
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Which of the 10 commandments instructed the good Samaritan to be merciful to the wounded man by the side of the road? And which of the 10 commandments told the priest and Levite that they had sinned?
Click to expand...
Which of them you ask. God says to love our neighbor. So did the levite do that? no, so did He put God first in his decision to ignore Gods command to love His neighbor?

God is love and always does what he can to help others did they not then by taking Gods name but not living as God instructed take His name in vain. Did they not also bear false witness in the sight of God?

What about the good Samaritan, did He steal from the man? no he gave. did he put God first? yes by loving his neighbor, The 10 are based in love. they are summed up in love. The Samaritan unlike the rich young ruler was willing to give what he had to follow God and take care of that man. He did not covet.

Be careful not to underestimate the reach of those 10. you cannot separate them from the greater two. you can not love and break them.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#208
Mar 3, 2011
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#208
I have to go to bed, as usual lovely chatting. May God bless us all with a greater insight into His Character of love.
 
just-me

just-me

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#210
Mar 4, 2013
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#210
Kefa54 said:
I am not under law. Every time I turn back to the law I desecrate what Jesus did on the cross.

Luke 9-26... But Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Kefa
Click to expand...
Turning back in my so called plowed field is turning back to what I once was without Christ Jesus in my life. It is not turning back to be "under the law." How can a person be wrong when they are turning toward God's original instructions of love?

Just curious about what you might think of these instructions. To me they are a good reminder of staying on track.

Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#211
Mar 3, 2011
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#211
Kefa54 said:
I have the love of Christ living through me. What law do I need?
Click to expand...
If Christs love is in you then you are keeping the law. For love will never break any of the commandments.
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
#212
#212
I have the same spirit that rose Jesus from the dead living in me. I don't need the law +Jesus. The spirit guides me every day ( If I slow down and listen).

Luke 9-26... But Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Kefa

just-me said:

Just curious about what you might think of these instructions. To me they are a good reminder of staying on track.

Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Click to expand...
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#213
Sep 4, 2012
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#213
gotime said:
Which of them you ask. God says to love our neighbor. So did the levite do that? no, so did He put God first in his decision to ignore Gods command to love His neighbor?

God is love and always does what he can to help others did they not then by taking Gods name but not living as God instructed take His name in vain. Did they not also bear false witness in the sight of God?

What about the good Samaritan, did He steal from the man? no he gave. did he put God first? yes by loving his neighbor, The 10 are based in love. they are summed up in love. The Samaritan unlike the rich young ruler was willing to give what he had to follow God and take care of that man. He did not covet.

Be careful not to underestimate the reach of those 10. you cannot separate them from the greater two. you can not love and break them.
Click to expand...
But the commandment to love one's neighbor is not in the 10 commandments. You said if the 10 commandments are taken away, the rest of the law loses meaning. But as demonstrated by the good Samaritan, it is the command to love that gives the 10 commandments meaning.

Technically, neither the priest nor the Levite stole anything from the wounded man, yet they sinned because they didn't have mercy on him. That's why the 10 commandments are limited in what they can teach us about sin and righteousness. However, they are perfect at condemning sin.
 
K

Kefa54

Guest
#214
#214
What I once was without Christ Jesus in my life.) Is living under the law.

Kefa
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

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#215
Sep 4, 2012
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#215
gotime said:
If Christs love is in you then you are keeping the law. For love will never break any of the commandments.
Click to expand...
Really? David ate the showbread from the tabernacle in Nob. It was not legal for him to do, but in GOD's eyes he was blameless. The priests worked on the sabbaths, which was not legal to do, and were blameless.

Righteousness comes from GOD, not man.
 
just-me

just-me

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#216
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#216
Kefa54 said:
What I once was without Christ Jesus in my life.) Is living under the law.

Kefa
Click to expand...
How long did you try living by the instructions thereof by self works of the law attempting to become righteous by your own strength before it finally dawned on you that your works were minus faith in Christ?
 
just-us-2

just-us-2

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#217
Kefa54 said:
I have the same spirit that rose Jesus from the dead living in me. I don't need the law +Jesus. The spirit guides me every day ( If I slow down and listen).

Luke 9-26... But Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Kefa
Click to expand...
It appears you have overlooked a detail that makes all the difference. You said, "I have the same spirit that rose Jesus from the dead living in me. I don't need the law +Jesus. The spirit guides me every day" So many times I have seen this doctrinal point of view expressed and have to wonder why people think such a thing. That doctrine says that professing Christians don't need the law because the Holy Spirit writes the Torah/law on their hearts.

First of all, there are at least three places in the Bible (1 in the OT and 2 in the NT) where we are told that man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD of God. Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4
Second Jesus is the Word. John 1:1
Third, the Holy Spirit is going to write the same things on a believer's heart as God stated in the Torah because God does NOT change. Malachi 3:6

 
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Kefa54

Guest
#218
#218
I am not under law. Every time I turn back to the law I desecrate what Jesus did on the cross.

Luke 9-26... But Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Are we saying that the law is better that following the Spirit?

Kefa


just-us-2 said:
It appears you have overlooked a detail that makes all the difference. You said, "I have the same spirit that rose Jesus from the dead living in me. I don't need the law +Jesus. The spirit guides me every day" So many times I have seen this doctrinal point of view expressed and have to wonder why people think such a thing. That doctrine says that professing Christians don't need the law because the Holy Spirit writes the Torah/law on their hearts.

First of all, there are at least three places in the Bible (1 in the OT and 2 in the NT) where we are told that man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD of God. Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4
Second Jesus is the Word. John 1:1
Third, the Holy Spirit is going to write the same things on a believer's heart as God stated in the Torah because God does NOT change. Malachi 3:6
Click to expand...
 
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K

Kefa54

Guest
#219
#219
I am off to Church to Worship a Holly God. In the Spirit of God.

Have fun with this thread.

Kefa
 
just-us-2

just-us-2

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#220
Kefa54 said:
I am not under law. Every time I turn back to the law I desecrate what Jesus did on the cross.

Luke 9-26... But Jesus said to him, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Are we saying that the law is better that following the Spirit?

Kefa
Click to expand...
Yeah, I am well aware of that routine reply and have asked many times for reasoning behind it and have yet to get a real answer. Now, as scripture says, give a reason for the reason you believe that false doctrine.
And if you still want to say it is not false doctrine, prove it with scripture from a reliable translation - by that I mean a translation of scripture that is accurately translated from orginal languages such as the Aramaic English New Testament or the Complete Jewish Bible, or the New American Standard. KJV is one I use when studying but I have found many inaccuaries that lead to misunderstanding what is really being said and I have no time whatsoever for NIV for studying.
 
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