The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

[eternally-gratefull]

OK, well I try to avoid the topic with you, but since you've persisted, please answer this question. Can a person's behavior jeopardize their salvation?

How could a persons behavior jeopardize anyone's salvation? Anyone, and I do mean anyone, who commits just one sin, is deemed by the law as a transgressor and are held aaccountable to the law and judged by the law.

thus according to the law. the reality is, Everyones behavior is worthy of eternal condemnation. No one could ever be good enough to be saved. So your question is invalid on the point, that if you are right, and a persons behavior can jeopardize their salvation, then no one will ever be saved, not can they be saved, grace is thrown out the door.



That would make salvation of works not of grace, why can't you see this.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I'm your huckleberry. Not a chance. Did being a sinner jeopardize getting saved? Nope. It is sinners that Jesus came for. That just made us His cup of tea.

This just proves my point that your belief is identical with gnostic belief. Irenaeus made clear by comparing gnostic beliefs with the church that this was not church doctrine. But it was what the gnostics believed.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This just proves my point that your belief is identical with gnostic belief. Irenaeus made clear by comparing gnostic beliefs with the church that this was not church doctrine. But it was what the gnostics believed.

No, you just prove your ignorance of what happens when a Christian is regenerated.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm your huckleberry. Not a chance. Did being a sinner jeopardize getting saved? Nope. It is sinners that Jesus came for. That just made us His cup of tea.

thats the problem with legalism, it forces you to think you are more righteous than you really are. by your actions. you have to start...

excusing your own sin, (Oh I still sin, but..)
Ignoring your own sin (at least I do not drink smoke or cuss, or commit adultry) ,
or denying you have any sin at all (very few hold to this account, But we do see from time to time some of these come in here Skinski comes to mind as one..)..

so as long as they at least maintain their current state of supposed righteousness, they will be ok.. And if they fall back once or twice, it is ok.. WHile still rejecting the righteousness of HCrist, which is literally, perfect obedience to the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This just proves my point that your belief is identical with gnostic belief. Irenaeus made clear by comparing gnostic beliefs with the church that this was not church doctrine. But it was what the gnostics believed.

And? This is what the bible teaches also. Who cares what the gnostics believed.

You teach works, plus you teach trinity and the cross.. So you must be catholic.. and are heading to hell because you teahc a false gospel as they do..

 

[FreeNChrist]

thats the problem with legalism, it forces you to think you are more righteous than you really are. by your actions. you have to start...

excusing your own sin, (Oh I still sin, but..)
Ignoring your own sin (at least I do not drink smoke or cuss, or commit adultry) ,
or denying you have any sin at all (very few hold to this account, But we do see from time to time some of these come in here Skinski comes to mind as one..)..

so as long as they at least maintain their current state of supposed righteousness, they will be ok.. And if they fall back once or twice, it is ok.. WHile still rejecting the righteousness of HCrist, which is literally, perfect obedience to the law.

But that's all the stuff they project onto those of us who actually live under grace. There's one for Freud.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And thats different, Should I call you roman catholic or eastern orthodox because you believe in the trinity and the cross? and say your believing in a false gospel like they do?

I fail to see why you do not see the point i made.
who? I keep seeing you make these accusations, but I have yet to see anyone teach it.

I'm not calling you or anyone else gnostics. What I am saying is that you and others hold beliefs that are identical with gnostic beliefs. I definitely hold common beliefs with the catholic church. No sin or error there. But if I held some of their erroneous beliefs, then I would be in error, just as anyone who holds gnostic beliefs is in error.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I'm not calling you or anyone else gnostics. What I am saying is that you and others hold gnostic beliefs. I definitely hold common beliefs with the catholic church. No sin or error there. But if I held some of their erroneous beliefs, then I would be in error, just as anyone who holds gnostic beliefs is in error.

Ahhhh, true confession at last.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And? This is what the bible teaches also. Who cares what the gnostics believed.

You teach works, plus you teach trinity and the cross.. So you must be catholic.. and are heading to hell because you teahc a false gospel as they do..

No, it's not what the bible teaches. It's what a gnostic spirit teaches the bible says. Irenaeus made clear that gnostic beliefs were diametrically opposed to church doctrine, which would be what the bible says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But that's all the stuff they project onto those of us who actually live under grace. There's one for Freud.

lol, You hit the nail on the head.

They are guilty of the very thing they judge us for. but they can not see it.

 

[Grace777x70]

Imagine if we called them "heretics".."false teachers"..."doctrine of satan "...and gave them "special pet derogatory names "...when talking to them about believing in the trinity and the cross and that they are full blown catholics now for that belief..

.. this does not happen with us grace believers...this would be abhorrent behavior to us...but to some that think it's ok to do this sort of behavior it is common place....just because someone believes differently then they do...we all believe in the saving power of Jesus and His blood that saves us.....we are all brothers when we have this belief...let's walk as children of the light with each other.

And? This is what the bible teaches also. Who cares what the gnostics believed.

You teach works, plus you teach trinity and the cross.. So you must be catholic.. and are heading to hell because you teahc a false gospel as they do..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, it's not what the bible teaches. It's what a gnostic spirit teaches the bible says. Irenaeus made clear that gnostic beliefs were diametrically opposed to church doctrine, which would be what the bible says.

ok lets get this clear. I do not give a crap what irenaeus or the gnostics believed, It has no bearing whatsoever on what I believe and would you please stop with this nonsense that it does.

Iraenious was not inspired by God. Paul was. James was, Peter was. John was, so can we please stick to what they say, and can be verified as truth, and not what someone who we can not even prove what he said was true said,

That is the catholic way, Again, do you want me to call you catholic?

All false gospels, and all false churches have some manner of truth in them.

The catholic church believes in the cross, and the trinity, and believes in many of the foundational truths of the church. It does not make them a true church. and it does not mean we ignore everything they said.

 

[FreeNChrist]

No, it's not what the bible teaches. It's what a gnostic spirit teaches the bible says. Irenaeus made clear that gnostic beliefs were diametrically opposed to church doctrine, which would be what the bible says.

And many of his errant views were institutionalized in Roman Catholic dogma. Which explains your mixing of law and grace, your views on forgiveness, and your denial of eternal security.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not calling you or anyone else gnostics. What I am saying is that you and others hold beliefs that are identical with gnostic beliefs. I definitely hold common beliefs with the catholic church. No sin or error there. But if I held some of their erroneous beliefs, then I would be in error, just as anyone who holds gnostic beliefs is in error.

so it is ok for you to hold to some of Catholics belief, but not ok if someone else appears to hold to the same belief of one or two things a gnostic may believe in?

Thats the pure definition of hypocrisy my friend.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, it's not what the bible teaches. It's what a gnostic spirit teaches the bible says. Irenaeus made clear that gnostic beliefs were diametrically opposed to church doctrine, which would be what the bible says.

No it is not, and this is getting old.

The bible does not teach a works based salvation.

Works based salvation is based in paganism, Phariseeism, and catholicisim, but you do not see me calling you names do you??

I could easy call you catholic, But I do not do this, because I know you are not catholic, even though your foundation of legalism is from them.

Please respect us and give us the same courtesy..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

so it is ok for you to hold to some of Catholics belief, but not ok if someone else appears to hold to the same belief of one or two things a gnostic may believe in?

Thats the pure definition of hypocrisy my friend.

If I held the Catholic belief that Mary was still a virgin, I would be in error. If I hold the Catholic belief that Jesus is the son of GOD, I'm golden.

The only thing the gnostics had in common with the church was the name of Jesus. So apart from this, holding any gnostic belief is error. That's why Irenaeus called his writing Against Heresies.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And many of his errant views were institutionalized in Roman Catholic dogma. Which explains your mixing of law and grace, your views on forgiveness, and your denial of eternal security.

You need to put your money where your mouth is, Huckleberry, and demonstrate where Irenaeus was in error. Without doing so, it's just a baseless accusation. Irenaeus learned the faith from the godly Polycarp, who learned the faith from the apostle John. So he was very close to the apostolic faith, and not so close to the corrupted church that emerged centuries later when it was overrun with pagans under the 'former' gnostic Augustine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If I held the Catholic belief that Mary was still a virgin, I would be in error. If I hold the Catholic belief that Jesus is the son of GOD, I'm golden.

The only thing the gnostics had in common with the church was the name of Jesus. So apart from this, holding any gnostic belief is error. That's why Irenaeus called his writing Against Heresies.

yet you hold to the catholic belief that salvation is not secure in Christ, but can be lost. It is not assured until one gets to judgement day,

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

ok lets get this clear. I do not give a crap what irenaeus or the gnostics believed, It has no bearing whatsoever on what I believe and would you please stop with this nonsense that it does.

Iraenious was not inspired by God. Paul was. James was, Peter was. John was, so can we please stick to what they say, and can be verified as truth, and not what someone who we can not even prove what he said was true said,

That is the catholic way, Again, do you want me to call you catholic?

All false gospels, and all false churches have some manner of truth in them.

The catholic church believes in the cross, and the trinity, and believes in many of the foundational truths of the church. It does not make them a true church. and it does not mean we ignore everything they said.

Irenaeus was a defender of the faith handed down to him, which was only one generation removed from the apostle John. What his witness provides us is a "lens" that shows what the early church believed as contrasted with gnostic doctrine. To ignore his witness is to be either foolish or in denial.

Like I said before, I haven't called anyone gnostics.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

yet you hold to the catholic belief that salvation is not secure in Christ, but can be lost. It is not assured until one gets to judgement day,

Salvation is secure if you have a living faith. There is no salvation apart from a living faith. The gnostics believed in salvation by grace apart from faith, which is also what some people here believe.