Well, the problem that pops into my head regarding that one is that, those who receive the mark are doomed, so they could not change sides once they've done that. Also, God would no longer be drawing them to repent. Those who will be here, will be those whose names were not written in the book of life from the beginning of world who will worship the beast, his image and receive his mark, the nation Israel and Gentiles who become believers during that seven year period.
THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE DOES NOT FIT LAST DAYS PROPHECY ABOUT NOAH
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Brother Ahwatukee,
Perhaps you missed this post the first time around, it is post #146.
Thank you for answering my question about the 7th head/king.
Would you please give me your viewpoint about how the 8th head is one of the 7.
You said that he is of the "lineage" of the 7 heads,
What does that mean?
Will you expand on your definition of "lineage",
If you would please.
Thank you.
Perhaps you missed this post the first time around, it is post #146.
Thank you for answering my question about the 7th head/king.
Would you please give me your viewpoint about how the 8th head is one of the 7.
You said that he is of the "lineage" of the 7 heads,
What does that mean?
Will you expand on your definition of "lineage",
If you would please.
Thank you.
Let's see what is verified per God's Word.
(Don't know why you have your statement in quotations. Did someone else say that?)
Anyway, in John 14:2-4, our Lord Jesus did promise to prepare abodes (meaning of "mansions" in the Greek) for His elect who will reign with Him. And He promised to gather them to Himself there also. And He even told them He would gather them "that where I am, there ye may be also" (John 14:3).
So the question is, WHERE is Jesus going to be... when He gathers His elect?
Further down in John 14 gives a hint... and it's a verse you cited...
John 14:28
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved Me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for My Father is greater than I.
KJV
What did He mean, "and come again unto you"? That's where Acts 1:10-12 and Zechariah 14, and 2 Thess.2:1-8, and even Rev.16:15, shows us where He is coming to. It's back to this earth, to Jerusalem! And He gathers His Church on His way to Jerusalem, which is what 1 Thess.4 is about.
Zech 14:3-5
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV
Jesus ascended to Heaven to The Father, from the Mount of Olives, in sight of His disciples.
Acts 1:10-12
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV
That's the manner and where those two angels told Christ's disciples that Jesus would return on the day of His 2nd coming.
So why would you want to deny those Scriptures which 'verify' our Lord Jesus gathers His Church to go to Jerusalem, and not back to Heaven to live?
How are your teachers justified in telling you Jesus gathers you to Heaven to live when the Scriptures do NOT... verify that idea?
What happened with Pre-tribbers misinterpretation about the mansions in John 14 is that they understood Jesus was preparing mansions in Heaven for His Church to live with Him, and then they began to jump up and down in the Church aisles and roll over in the floor, instead of remembering to keep to the rest of God's Word, like John 14:28 where He spoke of His return to them, and Zechariah 14 and Acts 1:10-12 which describes exactly where our Lord Jesus returns to.
But of course, in order for them to believe the Pre-trib doctrine of men on that, they would first have to be fed a story that Jesus comes to get them prior to the tribulation, and His return is later after the trib.
But the truth in God's Word is that Jesus only comes to gather all... of His Church one time, and it's after the tribulation.
In Matt.24 and Mark 13, Jesus gives examples of His 2nd coming to gather His Church, one group from Heaven that He brings with Him like Paul showed in 1 Thess.4, and the other group He gathers from the earth, also according to 1 Thess.4.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Apostle Paul declares that before... Jesus will come to gather His Church, 2 events MUST occur first: a great falling away, and the Antichrist must come, sitting in the temple of God in Jerusalem, showing himself that he is God.
Even on the 6th Vial of Revelation 16, Jesus is STILL warning His Church to keep their garments and don't be deceived, for He said He comes "as a thief". The very next event there is Jesus gathering the nations to battle at Armageddon and His 2nd coming to earth to destroy them, the 7th Vial being poured out.
But of course, in order for them to believe the Pre-trib doctrine of men on that, they would first have to be fed a story that Jesus comes to get them prior to the tribulation, and His return is later after the trib.
But the truth in God's Word is that Jesus only comes to gather all... of His Church one time, and it's after the tribulation.
In Matt.24 and Mark 13, Jesus gives examples of His 2nd coming to gather His Church, one group from Heaven that He brings with Him like Paul showed in 1 Thess.4, and the other group He gathers from the earth, also according to 1 Thess.4.
In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Apostle Paul declares that before... Jesus will come to gather His Church, 2 events MUST occur first: a great falling away, and the Antichrist must come, sitting in the temple of God in Jerusalem, showing himself that he is God.
Even on the 6th Vial of Revelation 16, Jesus is STILL warning His Church to keep their garments and don't be deceived, for He said He comes "as a thief". The very next event there is Jesus gathering the nations to battle at Armageddon and His 2nd coming to earth to destroy them, the 7th Vial being poured out.
=================================
The dragon is seen as waiting to devour Jesus when he was born, R 12:4-5.
This would be king Herod and Rome.
What is the meaning of the 7 heads and 10 horns on the DRAGON?
Aren't the heads and horns people?
==============================================
The beast the rises out of the sea is civil Rome.
This is the 4th beast of Daniel 7, and the iron legs of Dan. 2.
There is only one, 4th beast, in Dan. 7,
The sea beast/earth beast, the heads and horns, are all part of one entity, Rome.
============================================
Rev 11:8, in it's context, shows no indication, or any relation of the city of Jerusalem, to the harlot of R ch 17.
R 11:8, Does not picture Jerusalem as a woman, and neither does the rest of the story of the 2 witnesses.
I don't see any scriptural relationship between the two in this context.
================================================
At the time that this was written, Jerusalem was in ruins, and Rome ruled the world of Israel.
===========================
=================================================
Sorry for the delay.
The dragon is seen as waiting to devour Jesus when he was born, R 12:4-5.
This would be king Herod and Rome.
What is the meaning of the 7 heads and 10 horns on the DRAGON?
Aren't the heads and horns people?
==============================================
The beast the rises out of the sea is civil Rome.
This is the 4th beast of Daniel 7, and the iron legs of Dan. 2.
There is only one, 4th beast, in Dan. 7,
The sea beast/earth beast, the heads and horns, are all part of one entity, Rome.
============================================
Rev 11:8, in it's context, shows no indication, or any relation of the city of Jerusalem, to the harlot of R ch 17.
R 11:8, Does not picture Jerusalem as a woman, and neither does the rest of the story of the 2 witnesses.
I don't see any scriptural relationship between the two in this context.
================================================
At the time that this was written, Jerusalem was in ruins, and Rome ruled the world of Israel.
===========================
=================================================
Sorry for the delay.
Just to review,
The 4th nation in Dan. 2 is Rome.
The 4th beast of Dan. 7 is Rome.
The 6th head of the beast is Rome.
============
Did you ever stop and think this thought,
Everything in the Bible points to Rome/RCC/bishop of Rome.
But almost everything in pre-trib points away from Rome/RCC/the bishop of Rome?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's like saying that the Antichrist can't be the bishop of Rome, because the Antichrist hasn't been revealed yet.
--
Or, that the great tribulation, can't be Rome persecuting the people of God for the last 1900 years,
Because these can only be future events.
--
Or Maybe, these things haven't happened yet, because they are literal,
You are ignoring and REFUSING to take into account the symbolism of the texts (Rev), in light of their OBVIOUS relationships to the OT symbolism, as you choose, to fit this pre-trib theory.
----
You are proving, to yourself, time and time again, that Rome is not the beast and the BoR is not the Antichrist !!
--------------------------
The 8th head is the Bishop of ROME!
He is one of the seven.
He reigns from the fall of the Roman Empire until now.
Can it be more obvious?
The 4th nation in Dan. 2 is Rome.
The 4th beast of Dan. 7 is Rome.
The 6th head of the beast is Rome.
============
Did you ever stop and think this thought,
Everything in the Bible points to Rome/RCC/bishop of Rome.
But almost everything in pre-trib points away from Rome/RCC/the bishop of Rome?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's like saying that the Antichrist can't be the bishop of Rome, because the Antichrist hasn't been revealed yet.
--
Or, that the great tribulation, can't be Rome persecuting the people of God for the last 1900 years,
Because these can only be future events.
--
Or Maybe, these things haven't happened yet, because they are literal,
You are ignoring and REFUSING to take into account the symbolism of the texts (Rev), in light of their OBVIOUS relationships to the OT symbolism, as you choose, to fit this pre-trib theory.
----
You are proving, to yourself, time and time again, that Rome is not the beast and the BoR is not the Antichrist !!
--------------------------
The 8th head is the Bishop of ROME!
He is one of the seven.
He reigns from the fall of the Roman Empire until now.
Can it be more obvious?
Actually, it's about "that old serpent" and the temptation in God's Garden of Eden. Per Gen.37, the symbols of Rev.12:1 are explained, and represent God's Israel.
Rev.12:1-5 is a kind of summary of events from Satan's overthrow, then the events in Eden, to the birth of Christ, and then His future 1,000 years reign. Back in the world that then was, is when Satan first rebelled against God, and drew a third of the stars (angels) into rebellion with him. That beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns is different than the one in Rev.13 which is for the end of days (count the number of crowns).
In Rev.17 Jesus tells us the seven heads are "seven mountains", not people.
In Rev.13 we're told one... of those seven mountains receives a deadly wound. It's about powers upon the earth established in seven geographical areas. I don't suppose per Rev.17:8-11 you can guess upon which... of the seven mountains the deadly wound manifests?
The Rev.13:1-2 first beast indeed is a kingdom beast like those of Dan.7. It's not the old pagan Roman empire. It's the one-world empire to be established at the very end of this world, upon which Jesus smites it upon it's feet of ten toes, per the Book of Daniel. It's the whole complete full image that Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream. And if you look at the metals of it, the heaviest metals are on top, with the weakest part of the image being the feet of part iron mixed with clay! It's top heavy! ready to fall!
Per our Lord Jesus in Matt.24 and Mark 13, and from the Book of Daniel, and Rev.13:11 forward, and in 2 Thess.2:3-4, the Antichrist will be a pseudo-Christ (Greek pseudochristos of Matt.24:23-26). Even in 2 Corinthians 11, this is what Apostle Paul was warning us about for the very end of this world, of how Satan is disguised (actual Greek meaning) as an angel of light.
So it's not a pope that will be the coming Antichrist, but Satan himself. And that's exactly what the Rev.12:7 forward Scripture is directly showing us with Satan and his angels cast down to this earth after the war in Heaven with the Archangel Michael.
Rev.12:1-5 is a kind of summary of events from Satan's overthrow, then the events in Eden, to the birth of Christ, and then His future 1,000 years reign. Back in the world that then was, is when Satan first rebelled against God, and drew a third of the stars (angels) into rebellion with him. That beast kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns is different than the one in Rev.13 which is for the end of days (count the number of crowns).
In Rev.17 Jesus tells us the seven heads are "seven mountains", not people.
In Rev.13 we're told one... of those seven mountains receives a deadly wound. It's about powers upon the earth established in seven geographical areas. I don't suppose per Rev.17:8-11 you can guess upon which... of the seven mountains the deadly wound manifests?
The Rev.13:1-2 first beast indeed is a kingdom beast like those of Dan.7. It's not the old pagan Roman empire. It's the one-world empire to be established at the very end of this world, upon which Jesus smites it upon it's feet of ten toes, per the Book of Daniel. It's the whole complete full image that Nebuchadnezzar saw in his dream. And if you look at the metals of it, the heaviest metals are on top, with the weakest part of the image being the feet of part iron mixed with clay! It's top heavy! ready to fall!
Per our Lord Jesus in Matt.24 and Mark 13, and from the Book of Daniel, and Rev.13:11 forward, and in 2 Thess.2:3-4, the Antichrist will be a pseudo-Christ (Greek pseudochristos of Matt.24:23-26). Even in 2 Corinthians 11, this is what Apostle Paul was warning us about for the very end of this world, of how Satan is disguised (actual Greek meaning) as an angel of light.
So it's not a pope that will be the coming Antichrist, but Satan himself. And that's exactly what the Rev.12:7 forward Scripture is directly showing us with Satan and his angels cast down to this earth after the war in Heaven with the Archangel Michael.
I'm not going to disagree on this.
R 17 :12 ,The 10 crowns, are on 10 kings, that "receive power as kings one hour".
R 17:1, the harlot sits on many waters
R 17:3, the harlot sits on a beast
R 17:9, the harlot sits on 7 hills/mountains
R 17:15, the waters are people
R 17:18, the woman is a CITY
A City/beast/people
You lost me one this one.
Where does the last 2,000 years of Roman rule over Israel fit into you're prophetic time line?
The 500 year rule of the Roman Empire, and the 1500 years of the RCC slaughter?
This is a great description of the Bishop of Rome.
He calls Himself the "Holy Father" and accepts worship,
Isn't that the Antichrist?
Satan was cast down to earth on the Day of Pentecost when salvation came and the kingdom came, R 12:10
R 17 :12 ,The 10 crowns, are on 10 kings, that "receive power as kings one hour".
R 17:1, the harlot sits on many waters
R 17:3, the harlot sits on a beast
R 17:9, the harlot sits on 7 hills/mountains
R 17:15, the waters are people
R 17:18, the woman is a CITY
A City/beast/people
You lost me one this one.
Where does the last 2,000 years of Roman rule over Israel fit into you're prophetic time line?
The 500 year rule of the Roman Empire, and the 1500 years of the RCC slaughter?
This is a great description of the Bishop of Rome.
He calls Himself the "Holy Father" and accepts worship,
Isn't that the Antichrist?
Satan was cast down to earth on the Day of Pentecost when salvation came and the kingdom came, R 12:10
Y
Why do so many people gravitate toward Rome and the RCC when the verse referencing 7 hills comes up? When did five of those hills fall? There are other places in the world that make claim to being "of seven hills/mountains". One is Moscow Russia, which has the "7 sisters" each on one of the hills around the city, the other is Mecca, Saudi Arabia.
I know it's trendy to hate Catholics, even though most of the Protestant reformers were at one time Catholic priests, but could the "seven hills" be talking about something else?
*yes, I know a "true" Christian is supposed to be agains Rome and the RCC, but my family on my Dad's side has been Catholic since the first missionaries landed in Ireland, and I'm not throwing my family away for anyone, let alone you lot.* $100 says there will be plenty of Catholics in Heaven when judgment cometh upon us all, and won't that be awkward for a lot of people?
I know it's trendy to hate Catholics, even though most of the Protestant reformers were at one time Catholic priests, but could the "seven hills" be talking about something else?
*yes, I know a "true" Christian is supposed to be agains Rome and the RCC, but my family on my Dad's side has been Catholic since the first missionaries landed in Ireland, and I'm not throwing my family away for anyone, let alone you lot.* $100 says there will be plenty of Catholics in Heaven when judgment cometh upon us all, and won't that be awkward for a lot of people?
Good day Yahweh_is_gracious,
Allow me to give an answer for this, the seven heads of the beast symbolically represent two different elements:
1). The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
2). They are also seven kings. Five have fallen,
The reference to five having fallen, is in regards to the second symbol, which is referring to the heads as kings and not to the hills, as they are separate symbols. In Rev.17:18, John is told that "the woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth" At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the then known world and was build on and is famous for her seven hills/mountains.
Scripture states that, the kings of the earth will commit sexual immorality with the woman and the inhabitants of the earth will be intoxicated with immoralities. Now this of course is not speaking of literal sexual immorality, but spiritual. That being said, the figurative definition of spiritual immorality is defined as "to be unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower." This would mean that the woman would have to be a religious system that is claiming to be of Christ, but is being unfaithful, a counterfeit. This would discount Islam as a candidate, for Muslim's are not claiming to be of Christ. The reference to the kings and inhabitants committing spiritual immorality with her, would refer to them as engaging with her in her religious practices.
The woman is also said to be "dressed in purple and scarlet," which just happen to be the colors worn by the Cardinals and Bishops of Rome's counterfeit church.
Also, a true Christian should discern between the what is the truth and what is false. We can do this by continuing to study the word God. Therefore, we should be against the false teachings of the RCC, but we should pray for those within her, for they have been deceived by her. There indeed will be Catholic's in heaven or should I say ex Catholic's, because they will be those who will have turned to the truth. Roman Catholicism is paganism wearing Christian clothing.
Hope this information is helpful.
Allow me to give an answer for this, the seven heads of the beast symbolically represent two different elements:
1). The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
2). They are also seven kings. Five have fallen,
The reference to five having fallen, is in regards to the second symbol, which is referring to the heads as kings and not to the hills, as they are separate symbols. In Rev.17:18, John is told that "the woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth" At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the then known world and was build on and is famous for her seven hills/mountains.
Scripture states that, the kings of the earth will commit sexual immorality with the woman and the inhabitants of the earth will be intoxicated with immoralities. Now this of course is not speaking of literal sexual immorality, but spiritual. That being said, the figurative definition of spiritual immorality is defined as "to be unfaithful to Christ, while posing as His true follower." This would mean that the woman would have to be a religious system that is claiming to be of Christ, but is being unfaithful, a counterfeit. This would discount Islam as a candidate, for Muslim's are not claiming to be of Christ. The reference to the kings and inhabitants committing spiritual immorality with her, would refer to them as engaging with her in her religious practices.
The woman is also said to be "dressed in purple and scarlet," which just happen to be the colors worn by the Cardinals and Bishops of Rome's counterfeit church.
Also, a true Christian should discern between the what is the truth and what is false. We can do this by continuing to study the word God. Therefore, we should be against the false teachings of the RCC, but we should pray for those within her, for they have been deceived by her. There indeed will be Catholic's in heaven or should I say ex Catholic's, because they will be those who will have turned to the truth. Roman Catholicism is paganism wearing Christian clothing.
Hope this information is helpful.
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I guess this would be a good time to say a few things about the RCC.
When I say RCC i'm usually thinking of several different things at once.
1. The RCC is not all it clames.
2. Many people did become true Christians/saved, through out the ages, because of the faith of many people within the RCC.
3. Young people today only see the RCC of today, and the "beastly" acts of the RCC, (ones who were not real Christians), in the past 1500 years against Israel are being forgotten.
4. The men in power today in the Vatican are not responsible for the acts of the Vatican of the past. They are responsible for their current teachings, practices, and the continuation of a system that is contrary to scripture.
5. As soon as the Bible was accessed to the common people, it became obvious that the Bishop of Rome was not the "Holy Father".
6. Are there saved people in the RCC?
Can we separate the wheat from the tares?
Can we separate the sheep from the goats?
It is the corruption in high places,
The principles and powers that we fight.
With the Sword of the Word of God,
We will fight the beast of today, the 8th head, that goeth to Perdition/destruction.
The beast kingdom of Rev.12:3-4 has only "seven crowns". It was the system Satan originally rebelled with, which is what his drawing one third of the stars to earth with him is about. The beast kingdom of Rev.13:1-2 is for the end, but it has "ten crowns". Many miss this difference; I looked over it for many years.
What our Lord Jesus is revealing with the beast kingdom of Rev.12:3-4 which Satan first rebelled with, is how Satan is also going to be the one coming to try and do it once again, for the very end of this world, by that latter Rev.13:1-2 beast system.
I know, this is not taught in most Churches, so many are unfamiliar with it. Yet our Lord Jesus showed us this in more than Scripture. Right in Rev.12:7 forward, our Lord Jesus in His Revelation revealed Satan and his angels being booted down to this earth at the end of days, for the tribulation of 1260 days. And he is to go after the symbolic woman of that chapter, which today represents Christ's Church, because those of Israel who refuse Christ are cut off until He returns. In Rev.12 we are even shown it's both the "dragon" and the "serpent" is who casts the symbolic flood out of his mouth after the 'woman'. And in Rev.12:9, we are shown those titles of "dragon" and "that old serpent" are simply other names for Satan himself.
In Rev.13 we are shown that the whole world will worship the "dragon", except for those who's names are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.
At Rev.13:11 forward, we're shown the 2nd beast with two horns like a lamb, but speaking as a "dragon", will work great signs and wonders on earth, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men!
So what is wrong with many brethren that they refuse to believe those Scriptures as written??? It's not a pope that's coming, it's not someone born of Islam that's coming, nor from Hinduism or Buddhism. It's the Devil himself, in person, here on earth, with the intent to make the world worship him in place of God, the very sin he was guilty of in that time of old when he first rebelled against God.
The Revelation "harlot" is a... city (Rev.17:18).
The harlot sits upon 7 mountains, not hills. And one of the seven mountains (or heads), received a deadly wound that is healed. Many think that's talking about Rome, it having been conquered long ago, and then in the last days revived again.
Because we're given the subject of a time when the beast (Satan) "was", vs. "and is not", vs. "and yet is", that is covering back to the time of Satan's original Rev.12 "seven crown" kingdom that "was." It suffered a deadly wound when God ended Satan's rebellion of old (Ezek.31), thus destroying that old beast kingdom of "seven crowns". It became the "and is not".
But the final Rev.13 beast kingdom of "ten crowns" for our times is going to be Satan's beast kingdom revived for the end, the one that... "and yet is". And we know it will go into perdition when Jesus returns to strike it down.
Still no. The city is just a city, not people nor the 2 beasts of Revelation. You're not understanding that the idea of the woman harlot sitting up the beast kingdom, and the waters, simply means given power over those things. Since the harlot represents a city, it means the ruling city over the whole... beast kingdom system.
Obviously, you've been taught to key on the idea of the Roman Church when that had NOTHING to do with Israel's captivity by pagan Rome earlier. Those you listen to have a serious problem with the Roman Church, and that is driving a lot of the doctrine you are on, which is not Biblical.
I'm a Protestant, and I know better, and my ancestors in ancient France were Huguenots, the first French Protestants that fought against the Catholic Church in the 15-16th centuries.
The false one the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem are expecting is The Messiah of God's Word. But He (Jesus) already came and fulfilled Scripture of His 1st coming, but they rejected Him, as most of them still reject Him to this day. Yet that's who they are looking for to come. But the first one coming to Jerusalem to do supernatural signs and great wonders is NOT... going to be our Lord Jesus.
What our Lord Jesus is revealing with the beast kingdom of Rev.12:3-4 which Satan first rebelled with, is how Satan is also going to be the one coming to try and do it once again, for the very end of this world, by that latter Rev.13:1-2 beast system.
I know, this is not taught in most Churches, so many are unfamiliar with it. Yet our Lord Jesus showed us this in more than Scripture. Right in Rev.12:7 forward, our Lord Jesus in His Revelation revealed Satan and his angels being booted down to this earth at the end of days, for the tribulation of 1260 days. And he is to go after the symbolic woman of that chapter, which today represents Christ's Church, because those of Israel who refuse Christ are cut off until He returns. In Rev.12 we are even shown it's both the "dragon" and the "serpent" is who casts the symbolic flood out of his mouth after the 'woman'. And in Rev.12:9, we are shown those titles of "dragon" and "that old serpent" are simply other names for Satan himself.
In Rev.13 we are shown that the whole world will worship the "dragon", except for those who's names are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.
At Rev.13:11 forward, we're shown the 2nd beast with two horns like a lamb, but speaking as a "dragon", will work great signs and wonders on earth, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men!
So what is wrong with many brethren that they refuse to believe those Scriptures as written??? It's not a pope that's coming, it's not someone born of Islam that's coming, nor from Hinduism or Buddhism. It's the Devil himself, in person, here on earth, with the intent to make the world worship him in place of God, the very sin he was guilty of in that time of old when he first rebelled against God.
The Revelation "harlot" is a... city (Rev.17:18).
The harlot sits upon 7 mountains, not hills. And one of the seven mountains (or heads), received a deadly wound that is healed. Many think that's talking about Rome, it having been conquered long ago, and then in the last days revived again.
Because we're given the subject of a time when the beast (Satan) "was", vs. "and is not", vs. "and yet is", that is covering back to the time of Satan's original Rev.12 "seven crown" kingdom that "was." It suffered a deadly wound when God ended Satan's rebellion of old (Ezek.31), thus destroying that old beast kingdom of "seven crowns". It became the "and is not".
But the final Rev.13 beast kingdom of "ten crowns" for our times is going to be Satan's beast kingdom revived for the end, the one that... "and yet is". And we know it will go into perdition when Jesus returns to strike it down.
Still no. The city is just a city, not people nor the 2 beasts of Revelation. You're not understanding that the idea of the woman harlot sitting up the beast kingdom, and the waters, simply means given power over those things. Since the harlot represents a city, it means the ruling city over the whole... beast kingdom system.
Obviously, you've been taught to key on the idea of the Roman Church when that had NOTHING to do with Israel's captivity by pagan Rome earlier. Those you listen to have a serious problem with the Roman Church, and that is driving a lot of the doctrine you are on, which is not Biblical.
I'm a Protestant, and I know better, and my ancestors in ancient France were Huguenots, the first French Protestants that fought against the Catholic Church in the 15-16th centuries.
The false one the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem are expecting is The Messiah of God's Word. But He (Jesus) already came and fulfilled Scripture of His 1st coming, but they rejected Him, as most of them still reject Him to this day. Yet that's who they are looking for to come. But the first one coming to Jerusalem to do supernatural signs and great wonders is NOT... going to be our Lord Jesus.
The connection between the Roman Empire and the RCC is that they both are Caesar worshipers.
Caesar is God, the Bishop of Rome is the "HOLY FATHER".
Worship man as God.
The Bishop of Rome is religious Caesar.
The Vatican sits in exactly the same spot as it did centuries ago.
Caesar/BoR rules a spiritual kingdom of great power.
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As far as being taught this by some one, (and I've said this before),
There is no website, group, school, or book, that I have learned this from.
Israel is restored, the Bishop of Rome will speak the words R 16:13, that deceive the Kings of the East (Iran), into crossing the Euphrates to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem.
Then this planet is destroyed.
If you find a book or website that says this, let me know.
Caesar is God, the Bishop of Rome is the "HOLY FATHER".
Worship man as God.
The Bishop of Rome is religious Caesar.
The Vatican sits in exactly the same spot as it did centuries ago.
Caesar/BoR rules a spiritual kingdom of great power.
=================
As far as being taught this by some one, (and I've said this before),
There is no website, group, school, or book, that I have learned this from.
Israel is restored, the Bishop of Rome will speak the words R 16:13, that deceive the Kings of the East (Iran), into crossing the Euphrates to destroy Israel and take Jerusalem.
Then this planet is destroyed.
If you find a book or website that says this, let me know.
R
You know I could maybe, just maybe accept a mid trib. But, then again not, for the simple fact, that God will not judge the wicked with the righteous. Now that does not mean that people will not be saved during the trib, because they will. Only the ones that killed during the trib receive glorified bodies. There are to many examples of where God saved the righteous before the wicked were killed. Pre trib? yes. Mid trib ummm maybe. Post trib makes no sense. why have it at all if it's post trib? The people of God must live through His judgement? That was taken care of at the Cross.