The Rapture
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There are 2 heavens, the one where the Father resides, where Jesus came from. When Jesus came he brought the kingdom of heaven to earth for us to live in right now.
I'm not saying some one can't go to the eternal heaven where the Father is unless they are born again, I'm saying that we can't enter the kingdom of heaven on earthe that Jesus brought when he came.
It takes incorruptible seed AND 100% faith in the words to even be able to see that kingdom... this has NOTHING to do with salvation and going UP to heaven.
I'm not saying some one can't go to the eternal heaven where the Father is unless they are born again, I'm saying that we can't enter the kingdom of heaven on earthe that Jesus brought when he came.
It takes incorruptible seed AND 100% faith in the words to even be able to see that kingdom... this has NOTHING to do with salvation and going UP to heaven.
Let me put it this way, why can't you guys see what I see? Some don't read the incorruptible word, some read the incorruptible word but don't believe every word is right.
My views on scripture are shaped by what I read in scripture and I believe every word is right even when it goes against something that I have believed for years to be true.
The sriptures you guys read and the way you change translations or words to fit your current understanding form the way you see the scriptures. If the word you read is corrupt or if you change the words or don't believe the words for exactly what they say then you're not coming to the same conclusions that I will.
My views on scripture are shaped by what I read in scripture and I believe every word is right even when it goes against something that I have believed for years to be true.
The sriptures you guys read and the way you change translations or words to fit your current understanding form the way you see the scriptures. If the word you read is corrupt or if you change the words or don't believe the words for exactly what they say then you're not coming to the same conclusions that I will.
Greetings Burninglight,
In answer to your concern above, do you believe in the rest of scripture as well?
Do you understand that, the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath lies in between now and continues right up to the time that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age?
Do you believe that the wrath of God, that we as believers deserve was poured out on Christ, satisfying it?
" They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you out of the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth."
The other truths to take into consideration is that, at the gathering of the church Jesus does not return to the earth, but according to the scripture, the dead are resurrected and the living believers are changed, the entire group being caught up in the air to meet the Lord, where according to John 14:1-3, the Lord takes the entire church back to the Father's house.
Since the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, must take place between now and the time that Jesus returns to the earth and believers are not appointed to suffer wrath and Jesus promised to keep us out of that time of wrath, then how can the gathering of the church take place when Christ returns to end the age? This interpretation would put the living church of that time through the entire wrath of God.
It is a simple matter of understanding that the gathering of the church as being a separate event which takes place prior to the beginning of God's wrath and must in order to satisfy the scriptures that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath.
"Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear."
In the scripture above, the bride/church is seen in heaven receiving her fine linen, bright and clean. - Rev.19:6-8
"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean." - Rev.19:14
After the bride/church receives her fine line, bright and clean, we then see the armies following the Lord out of heaven wearing the same fine linen, white and clean that she will have received at the wedding of the Lamb.
How can the bride/church be gathered at the coming of the Lord, when scripture shows the bride returning to the earth with the Lord riding on those white horses and wearing her fine linen?
What most people do with these questions is to utilize existing apologetic or create them and to distort or circumvent the word of God in order to support the false teachings that they have adopted.
Having an understanding that the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events, is paramount to understanding the chronological order of end-time events.
That said, the information regarding the gathering of the church found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Cor.15:51-52 is not the same event depicting the Lord's return as found in Matt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-21.
Once the church has been completed, then 1 Thes.4:13-17 will be fulfilled will the Lord descending from heaven with the dead in Christ resurrecting and the living being changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air, where the entire church will be taken back to the Father's house in fulfillment of the Lord's promise found in John 14:1-3.
Once the church has been gathered, the wrath part of the day of the Lord will begin with the opening of that first seal, which is that rider on the white horse representing the revealing of the antichrist. After that the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will follow, all representing the wrath of God.
Shortly after the 7th bowl has been poured out, the Lord will return as depicted in Matt.24:29-31 and Rev.1:7, 19:11-14. At that time is when the beast and the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20) and Satan will be thrown into and restricted to the Abyss (Rev.20:1-3).
At that time the Lord will establish his millennial kingdom and the church, along with the 144,000 and the great tribulation saints, will rule with Christ on earth in His millennial kingdom.
We the church are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. In addition, Jesus said that he would keep the church "out of" that time of wrath. Scripture also has the church/bride return with Christ following him out of heaven riding white horses when He returns to the earth to end the age. Therefore, the gathering of the church must take place prior to God's wrath being poured out.
In order for the church to follow Christ out of heaven, she must already be in heaven.
In answer to your concern above, do you believe in the rest of scripture as well?
Do you understand that, the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath lies in between now and continues right up to the time that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age?
Do you believe that the wrath of God, that we as believers deserve was poured out on Christ, satisfying it?
" They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."
"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you out of the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth."
The other truths to take into consideration is that, at the gathering of the church Jesus does not return to the earth, but according to the scripture, the dead are resurrected and the living believers are changed, the entire group being caught up in the air to meet the Lord, where according to John 14:1-3, the Lord takes the entire church back to the Father's house.
Since the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, must take place between now and the time that Jesus returns to the earth and believers are not appointed to suffer wrath and Jesus promised to keep us out of that time of wrath, then how can the gathering of the church take place when Christ returns to end the age? This interpretation would put the living church of that time through the entire wrath of God.
It is a simple matter of understanding that the gathering of the church as being a separate event which takes place prior to the beginning of God's wrath and must in order to satisfy the scriptures that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath.
"Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear."
In the scripture above, the bride/church is seen in heaven receiving her fine linen, bright and clean. - Rev.19:6-8
"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean." - Rev.19:14
After the bride/church receives her fine line, bright and clean, we then see the armies following the Lord out of heaven wearing the same fine linen, white and clean that she will have received at the wedding of the Lamb.
How can the bride/church be gathered at the coming of the Lord, when scripture shows the bride returning to the earth with the Lord riding on those white horses and wearing her fine linen?
What most people do with these questions is to utilize existing apologetic or create them and to distort or circumvent the word of God in order to support the false teachings that they have adopted.
Having an understanding that the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events, is paramount to understanding the chronological order of end-time events.
That said, the information regarding the gathering of the church found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Cor.15:51-52 is not the same event depicting the Lord's return as found in Matt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-21.
Once the church has been completed, then 1 Thes.4:13-17 will be fulfilled will the Lord descending from heaven with the dead in Christ resurrecting and the living being changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air, where the entire church will be taken back to the Father's house in fulfillment of the Lord's promise found in John 14:1-3.
Once the church has been gathered, the wrath part of the day of the Lord will begin with the opening of that first seal, which is that rider on the white horse representing the revealing of the antichrist. After that the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will follow, all representing the wrath of God.
Shortly after the 7th bowl has been poured out, the Lord will return as depicted in Matt.24:29-31 and Rev.1:7, 19:11-14. At that time is when the beast and the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20) and Satan will be thrown into and restricted to the Abyss (Rev.20:1-3).
At that time the Lord will establish his millennial kingdom and the church, along with the 144,000 and the great tribulation saints, will rule with Christ on earth in His millennial kingdom.
We the church are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. In addition, Jesus said that he would keep the church "out of" that time of wrath. Scripture also has the church/bride return with Christ following him out of heaven riding white horses when He returns to the earth to end the age. Therefore, the gathering of the church must take place prior to God's wrath being poured out.
In order for the church to follow Christ out of heaven, she must already be in heaven.
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B
So, you are saying that no one can enter the kingdom of heaven on earth until they accept the KJV1611 as the inerrant word of God. Is that what you mean?
What do you mean? You cannot be saved until you are born again. I don't see how your views match Scripture That is why I asked who is your pastor? You said Jesus, but where did Jesus say that? Jesus said "You must be born again or you cannot see the kingdom of God." That means you cannot go there or be saved either.
What do you mean? You cannot be saved until you are born again. I don't see how your views match Scripture That is why I asked who is your pastor? You said Jesus, but where did Jesus say that? Jesus said "You must be born again or you cannot see the kingdom of God." That means you cannot go there or be saved either.
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My gosh! How messed up is KJV1611 in what he has proclaimed above! How deceiving and confusing his teaching is! No where in scripture, either in one place or combined, does scripture elude to entering into the kingdom of heaven by accepting the KJV. What did the apostles and the first century church do, who did not even have the NT scripture, much less the KJV? Because of this, will they not enter into the kingdom of heaven?
It is the KJV in English as far as I can tell, I've not seen another inerrant bible. I'm assuming that you don't believe any bible is inerrant... if that's the case then the word of God is whatever you want it to be, and if that's what folks want then I sure as heck don't care. I'm here to try and show people how to see and enter the kingdom of God, however most people are not interested at all.
John 3:5 KJV
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
The first step in understanding the difference between saved and born again is understanding that verse. I'm assuming that you think that means heaven where the Father is which requires salvation to enter in to. But what you probably don't understand, and this goes back to believing every word of God is RIGHT, is that there are 2 kingdoms of heaven... I will show you this and you still wont believe me because you think I'm an idiot and you know more than I do beacause I speak of things that you don't know about yet lol.
John 3:13 KJV
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jesus came down from heaven where the Father is. He then states that he is in heaven while he was on earth. You most likely, will "spritual mumbo jumbo" this away. But I believe it and there is only one way possible for the Son of man to leave heaven where the Father is and be in heaven on the earth... there are 2 heavens, 2 kingdoms of God. And this fact is beared out all through scripture.
John 3:5 KJV
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
The first step in understanding the difference between saved and born again is understanding that verse. I'm assuming that you think that means heaven where the Father is which requires salvation to enter in to. But what you probably don't understand, and this goes back to believing every word of God is RIGHT, is that there are 2 kingdoms of heaven... I will show you this and you still wont believe me because you think I'm an idiot and you know more than I do beacause I speak of things that you don't know about yet lol.
John 3:13 KJV
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jesus came down from heaven where the Father is. He then states that he is in heaven while he was on earth. You most likely, will "spritual mumbo jumbo" this away. But I believe it and there is only one way possible for the Son of man to leave heaven where the Father is and be in heaven on the earth... there are 2 heavens, 2 kingdoms of God. And this fact is beared out all through scripture.