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Amen Grace777!! Oh this is such a wonderful truth God is so good to give us the Bible. How did they do without the Bible way back when it was not all together in one book?? In these last days many will be saved and are now being saved. Learning about the love of God in Christ causes us to have those beautiful qualities in 2 Peter chapter 1. We are never disappointed when we know without doubt we have this treasure in earthen vessels.
It's not about our good works, or good intentions. Our emotions at times are not always wonderful and can make us feel condemned., and when we feel condemned we step away from Jesus. We wonder why since we are believers how could we think such a rotten thought or have a rotten intention? So we step back in confusion and shame.
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9 [/SUP]For whoever lacks these qualities is blind—shortsighted [closing his spiritual eyes to the truth], having become oblivious to the fact that he was cleansed from his old sins.
That is the enemies tactic when condemnation and shame is put in our path. The Holy Spirit never condemns or shames or belittles us. He reminds the believer of their righteousness in Christ so that they will NOT allow those shameful guilt ridden thoughts to lead them anymore. Or any other thing to be allowed to separate them from the love of God which is IN Christ Jesus.
Remembering our standing is IN Christ and that condemnation is NOT from God but the enemy., will give the believer the power to stand against guilt, shame and condemnation. (those things were taken at the cross by Christ) We instead go to the cross where we are reminded FRESHLY again about where to find grace and help in time of need. Grace is unmerited unearned love and acceptance from God. It holds us up when everything else throws us down.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For as these qualities are yours and are increasing [in you as you grow toward spiritual maturity], they will keep you from being useless and unproductive in regard to the true knowledge and greater understanding of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The enemy wants us to forget about grace and be filled with guilt that leads us away (not to) God. The enemy knows our strength and our growing comes from our faith in the knowledge of the gospel of grace and truth that Jesus brought. The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ our Lord.
That is such a major truth Grace777 that I didn't hear preached on much at all until recently. The truth will set the believer free and it's found in the Bible and the Holy Spirit's revelation of truth to our hearts. Grace is because of Jesus and we are loved graciously. Amen.
To those who have [SUP][b][/SUP]received and possess [by God’s will] a precious faith of the [SUP][c][/SUP]same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace [that special sense of spiritual well-being] be multiplied to you in the [true, intimate] knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For His divine power has bestowed on us [absolutely] everything necessary for [a dynamic spiritual] life and godliness, through [SUP][d][/SUP]true and personal knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For by these He has bestowed on us His precious and magnificent promises [of inexpressible value], so that by them you may escape from the immoral freedom that is in the world because of disreputable desire, and become sharers of the divine nature.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For this very reason, applying your diligence [to the divine promises, make every effort] in [exercising] your faith to, [SUP][e][/SUP]develop moral excellence, and in moral excellence, knowledge (insight, understanding),
[SUP]6 [/SUP]and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, steadfastness, and in your steadfastness, godliness,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]and in your godliness, brotherly affection, and in your brotherly affection, [develop Christian] love [that is, learn to unselfishly seek the best for others and to do things for their benefit].
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For as these qualities are yours and are increasing [in you as you grow toward spiritual maturity], they will keep you from being useless and unproductive in regard to the true knowledge and greater understanding of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For whoever lacks these qualities is blind—shortsighted [closing his spiritual eyes to the truth], having become oblivious to the fact that he was cleansed from his old sins.
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10 [/SUP]Therefore, believers, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you [be sure that your behavior reflects and confirms your relationship with God]; for by [SUP][f][/SUP]doing these things [actively developing these virtues], you will never stumble [in your spiritual growth and will live a life that leads others away from sin];
[SUP]11 [/SUP]for in this way entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly provided to you.
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You need to put this up in the youtube sermon room. Lot's of us go there to listen to messages. I also think it would be a great idea to schedule a time for all of us to go in and bring some coffee, relax and all listen together. We can actually type in comments AND discuss in 'real time' on the mike. Commenting as the message is going., it can be put on pause and questions or ideas can be asked or shared.
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Hi Arigirl, Welcome to the forums sister! In the new covenant we find that God loves us first and because of that we are able to love Him and others. The Bible says in 1 John 4:17
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation [that is, the atoning sacrifice, and the satisfying offering] for our sins [fulfilling God’s requirement for justice against sin and placating His wrath].
He gives to us first (freely) His Son who is our atoning sacrifice and satisfying offering. God Himself fulfilled the requirement of justice against sin and He satisfied His wrath against sin.
The word "PROPITIATION" sounds complicated but it is a very amazing word with meaning about salvation. We can't do it ourselves. We can't do it ourselves or keep it ourselves. Jesus keeps us in safe keeping. He gave us the Holy Spirit as a seal until the day of redemption.
We are accountable to work out our own salvation (work out what Jesus has put IN us) not work FOR but work OUT. And we are not alone anymore when we do this because Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to be with us to help and comfort and teach and guide us. That is our seal.
Phil.2:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, my dear ones, just as you have always obeyed [my instructions with enthusiasm], not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation [that is, cultivate it, bring it to full effect, actively pursue spiritual maturity] with awe-inspired fear and trembling [using serious caution and critical self-evaluation to avoid anything that might offend God or discredit the name of Christ].
Keep on reading about the grace of God IN Christ and how the Bible says Titus 2:11-13 "grace teaches us HOW to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts., how to live soberly righteously and Godly in this present age."
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11 [/SUP]For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that [SUP][a][/SUP]brings salvation has appeared to all men. [SUP]12
[/SUP]It teaches us to reject ungodliness and worldly (immoral) desires, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives [lives with a purpose that reflect spiritual maturity] in this present age,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]awaiting and confidently expecting the [fulfillment of our] blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
Amplified Bible.
"we love God because He first loved us and gave His Son to be
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Hi mikpat., That is why I am soooooooooooooo thankful for the Holy Spirit who was given to each of us at the time of our salvation to seal us., to comfort, guide and teach us all things. It is our individual responsibility as "sons" to be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ daily. More and more seeing Him and the power of His resurrection.
We do this by reading His Word and submitting to the Holy Spirit's leading, guiding, teaching us. By grace, we learn how to live soberly righteously and godly in this present age. Our new spirit man seeking to learn more and more about Jesus.
Because we are still in these bodies we learn at our own pace and the more we are available to Him., the more we will grow in faith. So actually, where we are is ok as long as we keep on learning. We each start somewhere and not all of us have the same exact struggles to learn about. He takes us through our old ways and brings us into His new ways.
I'm so encouraged we each have that same Holy Spirit. So in Him we can come together and reason in good faith. The forums can be such a blessing that way.
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If you have a real relationship with Jesus Christ, you are secure. You need to examine yourself in that regard, though.
Many churches teach "easy believism" which basically involves persuasional evangelism..get someone to say a prayer, sign a piece of paper or the back of the tract and you're good, whether there is an enduring, heartfelt change or not. A real faith produces real change in the person's life over time. If there's no real change, there's reason to doubt whether the person has experienced a genuine conversion. Christianity involves a transformation of the person's core being. Read James in this regard.
There are five points in I John that identify whether you are a believer. One is that you don't "practice" sin..in other words, your overall lifestyle is not one of sinful rebellion against God (not perfection..we all stumble in the path and God picks us up, brushes us off and we continue). Another is that you love the brethren..fellow Christians (conversely, hatred would indicate eternal life doesn't abide in us). Another is that we keep the commandments of God..those that apply to us (we live by the word of God). The internal witness of the Holy Spirit is another. Another is that we believe Jesus is God who came in the flesh, and declare Him as our Lord.
You should read all of I John and look for these signs.
I attached a document I created concerning eternal security, which gives a lot of Scriptures.
Beware the joy-suckers on this forum
Many churches teach "easy believism" which basically involves persuasional evangelism..get someone to say a prayer, sign a piece of paper or the back of the tract and you're good, whether there is an enduring, heartfelt change or not. A real faith produces real change in the person's life over time. If there's no real change, there's reason to doubt whether the person has experienced a genuine conversion. Christianity involves a transformation of the person's core being. Read James in this regard.
There are five points in I John that identify whether you are a believer. One is that you don't "practice" sin..in other words, your overall lifestyle is not one of sinful rebellion against God (not perfection..we all stumble in the path and God picks us up, brushes us off and we continue). Another is that you love the brethren..fellow Christians (conversely, hatred would indicate eternal life doesn't abide in us). Another is that we keep the commandments of God..those that apply to us (we live by the word of God). The internal witness of the Holy Spirit is another. Another is that we believe Jesus is God who came in the flesh, and declare Him as our Lord.
You should read all of I John and look for these signs.
I attached a document I created concerning eternal security, which gives a lot of Scriptures.
Beware the joy-suckers on this forum
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You know that statement is true and their are many verses to prove it, however, it is my opinion that what mankind considers saved is different that what God considers saved. I honestly believe that we do not even have true faith in Christ until we learn to cast out the bond servant which is spoken about in Galatians.
If you have a real relationship with Jesus Christ, you are secure. You need to examine yourself in that regard, though.
Many churches teach "easy believism" which basically involves persuasional evangelism..get someone to say a prayer, sign a piece of paper or the back of the tract and you're good, whether there is an enduring, heartfelt change or not. A real faith produces real change in the person's life over time. If there's no real change, there's reason to doubt whether the person has experienced a genuine conversion. Christianity involves a transformation of the person's core being. Read James in this regard.
There are five points in I John that identify whether you are a believer. One is that you don't "practice" sin..in other words, your overall lifestyle is not one of sinful rebellion against God (not perfection..we all stumble in the path and God picks us up, brushes us off and we continue). Another is that you love the brethren..fellow Christians (conversely, hatred would indicate eternal life doesn't abide in us). Another is that we keep the commandments of God..those that apply to us (we live by the word of God). The internal witness of the Holy Spirit is another. Another is that we believe Jesus is God who came in the flesh, and declare Him as our Lord.
You should read all of I John and look for these signs.
I attached a document I created concerning eternal security, which gives a lot of Scriptures.
Beware the joy-suckers on this forum
Many churches teach "easy believism" which basically involves persuasional evangelism..get someone to say a prayer, sign a piece of paper or the back of the tract and you're good, whether there is an enduring, heartfelt change or not. A real faith produces real change in the person's life over time. If there's no real change, there's reason to doubt whether the person has experienced a genuine conversion. Christianity involves a transformation of the person's core being. Read James in this regard.
There are five points in I John that identify whether you are a believer. One is that you don't "practice" sin..in other words, your overall lifestyle is not one of sinful rebellion against God (not perfection..we all stumble in the path and God picks us up, brushes us off and we continue). Another is that you love the brethren..fellow Christians (conversely, hatred would indicate eternal life doesn't abide in us). Another is that we keep the commandments of God..those that apply to us (we live by the word of God). The internal witness of the Holy Spirit is another. Another is that we believe Jesus is God who came in the flesh, and declare Him as our Lord.
You should read all of I John and look for these signs.
I attached a document I created concerning eternal security, which gives a lot of Scriptures.
Beware the joy-suckers on this forum
However, I take issue with one point (bolded above); and the only reason I do so is because IMO it is the crucial point that some stumble over. We are transformed by doing the word. Just hearing the word and not doing it is like beholding who we are in Christ (our identity) in a mirror (or "lens", if you will) and then forgetting who that is when we look away (because it's only an image in the mind). Whereas doing the word of GOD transforms our entire being such that doing GOD's will becomes our innate nature.
So genuineness of conversion has more to do with applying one's faith rather than as the result of the quality of one's faith. I hear it repeated so often here that if a person falls away from the faith, they never really believed in the first place (bad faith). That's quite a presumptuous and non-scriptural judgment to make. The parable of the sower teaches that it's the quality of the soil (the person) that determines the genuineness of conversion as evidenced by fruit. Those who don't do, or continue doing, the word because of their shallowness or loving the world more than GOD (have) believe(d) in vain. So genuineness of conversion is not something determined by mythical good/bad faith, but by applying what faith we have to do GOD's word.
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We are not transformed by doing, That is what satan wants you to think.
We are transformed by renewing.
Romans 12:2 [Full Chapter]
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
It is this transforming of our mind which causes the change in our doing. (being more Christlike)
We are transformed by renewing.
Romans 12:2 [Full Chapter]
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
It is this transforming of our mind which causes the change in our doing. (being more Christlike)
The mind is renewed by hearing and doing.
Therefore, putting aside all moral uncleanness and wicked excess, welcome with humility the implanted message which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word and not only hearers, deceiving yourselves, because if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, this one is like someone staring at his own face in a mirror, for he looks at himself and goes away and immediately forgets what sort of [person] he was. But the one who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues [to do it], not being a forgetful hearer but a doer who acts, this one will be blessed in what he does. James 1:21-25
“And why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I tell [you]? “Everyone who comes to me and listens to my words and does them—I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug and went down deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And [when] a flood came, the river burst against that house and was not able to shake it, because it had been built well. But the one who hears [my words] and does not do [them] is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation, which the river burst against, and immediately it collapsed—and the collapse of that house was great!” Luke 6:46-49
“And why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I tell [you]? “Everyone who comes to me and listens to my words and does them—I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug and went down deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And [when] a flood came, the river burst against that house and was not able to shake it, because it had been built well. But the one who hears [my words] and does not do [them] is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation, which the river burst against, and immediately it collapsed—and the collapse of that house was great!” Luke 6:46-49
E
some people put to much emphasis on doing, they have way to much SELF in the equation. almost every post they make is do do. I I, Me Me, I did, I did, I I I I I.......
If you hear a gospel with the words I must do this and that and everything else, run run far away!!
A person who is renewed does. I can read the bible 24/7, if I do not renew my mind (thinking) by what that word is teaching, and trust that word (faith) I will never do.
Everything in God from salvation to sanctification comes from a renewed mind (repentance) and faith in God. Works are the byproduct of these changes, works (doing) do not change us as the works people want us to believe they do, it is the renewed, repentant mind who trusts God and Gods word.
If you hear a gospel with the words I must do this and that and everything else, run run far away!!
A person who is renewed does. I can read the bible 24/7, if I do not renew my mind (thinking) by what that word is teaching, and trust that word (faith) I will never do.
Everything in God from salvation to sanctification comes from a renewed mind (repentance) and faith in God. Works are the byproduct of these changes, works (doing) do not change us as the works people want us to believe they do, it is the renewed, repentant mind who trusts God and Gods word.
Amen...there is the fundamental difference between the works-based salvationists mindset and the grace-based Christ focused mindset.
It's interesting that the "renewing of the mind" in Romans 12 is in the "passive voice" which mean that " the action is being done to you - you are not doing it."
It's the Holy Spirit that transforms us as we behold Christ as in a mirror - we see ourselves in Him. This "transformed" is passive in 2 Cor 3:18 as well.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
We participate by walking in agreement with our renewed mind. Christ saves us with His life and blood - not ourselves.
The "doing of the word" is believing what Christ has already done and walking in that knowledge and according to the Spirit within us instead of the flesh.
John 6:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
It's interesting that the "renewing of the mind" in Romans 12 is in the "passive voice" which mean that " the action is being done to you - you are not doing it."
It's the Holy Spirit that transforms us as we behold Christ as in a mirror - we see ourselves in Him. This "transformed" is passive in 2 Cor 3:18 as well.
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
We participate by walking in agreement with our renewed mind. Christ saves us with His life and blood - not ourselves.
The "doing of the word" is believing what Christ has already done and walking in that knowledge and according to the Spirit within us instead of the flesh.
John 6:28-29 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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