the two witnesses are God the Father and the Holy Spirit

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VernonFrancis

Guest
God became flesh in Jesus Christ, "it is finished", there is now no more sacrifice for sin.

it appeared satan won, but we know from Jesus that he laid down his life, no one took it from him. Revelation says the beast wars and overcomes the two witnesses.

you may conclude as you like, but I can not see it.
 
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badger58

Guest
God became flesh in Jesus Christ, "it is finished", there is now no more sacrifice for sin.

it appeared satan won, but we know from Jesus that he laid down his life, no one took it from him. Revelation says the beast wars and overcomes the two witnesses.

you may conclude as you like, but I can not see it.
I have no argument with what you've said,but I do see the possibility in the old testament sacrificial system that leads me to believe that the two witnesses may be something more. Example:the evening sacrifice, the later rain, the sacrifice on the day of atonement, the peace offering. It's possible that the two witnesses are an offering. It is written somewhere about His work, His strange work.
The two witnesses have powers that have not been granted to any man. Something to think about.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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This is the most insane thread I have seen here on CC. Any other would have been removed long ago.

Pr 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If you have an issue with the thread please submit it CC is very mush working in many threads thank you for your patience
 
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badger58

Guest
This is the most insane thread I have seen here on CC. Any other would have been removed long ago.

Pr 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You do not seem to have a Berean spirit, you should just keep out of this discussion if you have nothing to offer. This is for those that are willing to search the scripture. If you think I haven't done my homework, you are mistaken. It never ceases to amaze me that some claiming to be Christians can be so closed minded like the Pharisees. Do you think the deciples had that kind of mindset. I THINK NOT!


please do not make your comments personal thank you
 
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badger58

Guest
This is the most insane thread I have seen here on CC. Any other would have been removed long ago.

Pr 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
John 16:2 Good read for those that like to judge and throw stones. I love Jesus as my lord and savior. This is not a salvation issue, just trying to read our Fathers word in a way that makes sense. Peace
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Beware badger58, every time you point a finger there are 4 other fingers pointing back at you.

If anything you are a false prophet, sent here to deceive True Christians into follow you and not God.

2 Peter 2:1-22
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; [SUP]5 [/SUP]and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; [SUP]6 [/SUP]and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; [SUP]7 [/SUP]and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men [SUP]8 [/SUP](for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), [SUP]9 [/SUP]then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority.

Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties, [SUP]11 [/SUP]whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, [SUP]13 [/SUP]suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, [SUP]14 [/SUP]having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; [SUP]15 [/SUP]forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; [SUP]16 [/SUP]but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, [SUP]19 [/SUP]promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. [SUP]22 [/SUP]It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
 
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badger58

Guest
PLease do not make personal comments thank you
 
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Mar 28, 2016
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I would think the two witnesses are one, the law of God typified by Moses. And two, the prophets in respect to the Spirit of Christ typified by Elijah who came in the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit uses to two witnesses to convey the final authority, called sola scriptura by some.

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. Mat 11:13

Elijah the prophet who was prophesied would come and prepare the way. In the parable below he uses the two witnesses to speak of His Son, he says hear Him

And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Mat 17:3

The two witnesses are also used in a parable found in Luke 16 as well as other places. Basically saying , if they do not hearing the word of God and believe to the salvation of their soul then neither would they believe if one arose from the dead .Which Christ did and the unbelieving Jew still rejects .

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luk 16:29
 
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badger58

Guest
I would think the two witnesses are one, the law of God typified by Moses. And two, the prophets in respect to the Spirit of Christ typified by Elijah who came in the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit uses to two witnesses to convey the final authority, called sola scriptura by some.

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. Mat 11:13

Elijah the prophet who was prophesied would come and prepare the way. In the parable below he uses the two witnesses to speak of His Son, he says hear Him

And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Mat 17:3

The two witnesses are also used in a parable found in Luke 16 as well as other places. Basically saying , if they do not hearing the word of God and believe to the salvation of their soul then neither would they believe if one arose from the dead .Which Christ did and the unbelieving Jew still rejects .

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luk 16:29
I appreciate your comments Garee,
If I'm understanding you correctly, as you read in Rev 11 about the two witnesses. You read this as a parable, not literally.
I myself read the bible and take it literally unless its made clear its a parable. I guess the way God communicates with us is very cryptic as he uses visions, parables, similitudes. I guess that's the rub. We all want to think that the Holy Spirit is guiding us in our understanding and yet there are so many different takes on any given subject. All I know is iron sharpens iron. So we just keep plugging away at sharing how the word moves us. That explains why anytime you write something, there is always someone out there that wants to throw stones. Why can't we just exchange ideas. Peace and God bless you and yours
 
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badger58

Guest
So sorry for the many posts...
It appears that one believes that there are "three" in Heaven...meaning there are actually "Three in heaven"? And I want to be clear that these three are ONE

Just as it says there are three that bear record on earth: the water and the blood (that is natural man) and the spirit and these three agree in the ONE (man reborn of the SPIRIT OF GOD)
For it is the HOLY SPIRIT who testifies with our spirit to the TRUTH of THE WORD of GOD.
Those who receive GOD'S TESTIMONY which HE has given of HIS SON sets to their own (Personal spirit) seal that GOD'S WORD is TRUTH...
I agree that they three are one. Jesus' prayer on the night he was betrayed, explains what he meant by one. Love for one another.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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There is only one Truth in the Scriptures, not many truths like the tares teach.

I still say you badger58 are a false prophet spoken of by the Holy Spirit in 2 Peter 2.

Today we see many false prophets. Here is a few. The Mormons, the Muslims, the Catholics, Hinduism, ect. There are many trying to destroy God for their god Satan.
 
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badger58

Guest
There is only one Truth in the Scriptures, not many truths like the tares teach.

I still say you badger58 are a false prophet spoken of by the Holy Spirit in 2 Peter 2.

Today we see many false prophets. Here is a few. The Mormons, the Muslims, the Catholics, Hinduism, ect. There are many trying to destroy God for their god Satan.
I've looked up some of your posts and I perceive you are a bitter man with a shallow knowledge of the scripture.
I am not a preacher, teacher or bible scholar, but I read my bible and share. Nothing in scripture forbids that. Olive the lord and have been in his word for over 40 yrs. You are the one taking scriture out of context. Keep it up. I like a good laugh!
 
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badger58

Guest
How is it that we have to believe that Jesus came in the flesh,as Christians, and when it comes to our Father and the Holy Spirit, we think that they couldn't or wouldn't come in the flesh in these last days.
The parable in Mark 12:1-12 and Luke 20:9-16 show us what to expect in these last days.
#1 The servants were sent to collect for the master of the vinyard(The Proohets) some of them they beat, some of them they killed. That really happened.
#2 The master of the vineyard then sent his only son. Because of envy and greed, they killed him(the Christ Jesus) that really happened.
The mainstream Christian teaching of what we are to expect next is the rapture of the church and then the second coming of Jesus,
But that is not what we see in the parable.
What I see is that we should expect the master of the vineyard (Jesus' Father) and he will destroy those miserable religious leaders and the rulers of this world. Sorry if this is upsetting to you, but that's how I see the end playing out. It makes more sense to me. I can't tow the line with the status quo. If you can explain this parable better and show me what I'm missing(using scripture) I'd love to hear it. The Lord said to my Lord: Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool. This also explains(at least to me) why, when Jesus came forward at a synagogue, he read Isaiah 61v 1 and stoped in the middle of v 2.
I suggest that the second half of v 2-11 are speaking of the Father. Remember: Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. He will not send two more prophets to warn. That time has come and gone. Father and His Spirit will have the stage in this final hour! Who can stand at his presence? I know that this study of scripture will open me up to the usual attack, but I'm just trying to understand these difficult verses. All comments are appreciated. Be gentle in your arguments. I love the Lord. Lets study His word with sincerity. Peace
 
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We do know you by your fruits badger58.

Matthew 7:15-20

[FONT=&quot]15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.


[/FONT]
 
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badger58

Guest
We do know you by your fruits badger58.

Matthew 7:15-20

[FONT=&quot]15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.


[/FONT]
Why are you in a a Christian chat room where ideas should have freedom. It is clear you have nothing of substance to offer.
As I have stated before THE TRUTH DOES NOT FEAR EXAMINATION and you have no power except to show yourself to be an annoying little insect. I challenge you to explain this parable so we can all benefit from your superior knowledge Mec99 lets see what you've got. Please prove me wrong. So you don't appear to be an ass. Stiff necked like the Pharisees.
 
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badger58

Guest
The parable in Mark 12:1-12 and Luke 20:9-16 show us what to expect in these last days.
#1 The servants were sent to collect for the master of the vinyard(The Proohets) some of them they beat, some of them they killed. That really happened.
#2 The master of the vineyard then sent his only son. Because of envy and greed, they killed him(the Christ Jesus) that really happened.
The mainstream Christian teaching of what we are to expect next is the rapture of the church and then the second coming of Jesus,
But that is not what we see in the parable.
What I see is that we should expect the master of the vineyard (Jesus' Father) and he will destroy those miserable religious leaders and the rulers of this world. Sorry if this is upsetting to you, but that's how I see the end playing out. It makes more sense to me. I can't tow the line with the status quo. If you can explain this parable better and show me what I'm missing(using scripture) I'd love to hear it. The Lord said to my Lord: Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool. This also explains(at least to me) why, when Jesus came forward at a synagogue, he read Isaiah 61v 1 and stoped in the middle of v 2.
I suggest that the second half of v 2-11 are speaking of the Father. Remember: Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. He will not send two more prophets to warn. That time has come and gone. Father and His Spirit will have the stage in this final hour! Who can stand at his presence? I know that this study of scripture will open me up to the usual attack, but I'm just trying to understand these difficult verses. All comments are appreciated. Be gentle in your arguments. I love the Lord. Lets study His word with sincerity. Peace
This is all over the prophets and the psalms.
Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord H136 GOD H3069 will do H6213 nothing, H1697 but he revealeth H1540 his secret H5475 unto his servants H5650 the prophets
I am nobody, but I have read the prophets many dozens of time. I tried to debunk this idea, but it keeps coming up over and over again. Were am I wrong about this parable? Please show me.
 
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badger58

Guest
The parable in Mark 12:1-12 and Luke 20:9-16 show us what to expect in these last days.
#1 The servants were sent to collect for the master of the vinyard(The Proohets) some of them they beat, some of them they killed. That really happened.
#2 The master of the vineyard then sent his only son. Because of envy and greed, they killed him(the Christ Jesus) that really happened.
The mainstream Christian teaching of what we are to expect next is the rapture of the church and then the second coming of Jesus,
But that is not what we see in the parable.
What I see is that we should expect the master of the vineyard (Jesus' Father) and he will destroy those miserable religious leaders and the rulers of this world. Sorry if this is upsetting to you, but that's how I see the end playing out. It makes more sense to me. I can't tow the line with the status quo. If you can explain this parable better and show me what I'm missing(using scripture) I'd love to hear it. The Lord said to my Lord: Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool. This also explains(at least to me) why, when Jesus came forward at a synagogue, he read Isaiah 61v 1 and stoped in the middle of v 2.
I suggest that the second half of v 2-11 are speaking of the Father. Remember: Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. He will not send two more prophets to warn. That time has come and gone. Father and His Spirit will have the stage in this final hour! Who can stand at his presence? I know that this study of scripture will open me up to the usual attack, but I'm just trying to understand these difficult verses. All comments are appreciated. Be gentle in your arguments. I love the Lord. Lets study His word with sincerity. Peace
Rev 11:5 And G2532 if any man G1536 G846 will G2309 hurt G91 them, G846 fire G4442 proceedeth G1607 out of G1537 their G846 mouth, G4750 and G2532 devoureth G2719 their G846 enemies: G2190 and G2532 if any man G1536 will G2309 hurt G91 them, G846 he must G1163 in this manner G3779 be killed. G615
Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day H3117 cometh, H935 that shall burn H1197 as an oven; H8574 and all the proud, H2086 yea, and all that do H6213 wickedly, H7564 shall be stubble: H7179 and the day H3117 that cometh H935 shall burn them up, H3857 saith H559 the LORD H3068 of hosts, H6635 that it shall leave H5800 them neither root H8328 nor branch. H6057
 
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badger58

Guest
Rev 11:5 And G2532 if any man G1536 G846 will G2309 hurt G91 them, G846 fire G4442 proceedeth G1607 out of G1537 their G846 mouth, G4750 and G2532 devoureth G2719 their G846 enemies: G2190 and G2532 if any man G1536 will G2309 hurt G91 them, G846 he must G1163 in this manner G3779 be killed. G615
Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day H3117 cometh, H935 that shall burn H1197 as an oven; H8574 and all the proud, H2086 yea, and all that do H6213 wickedly, H7564 shall be stubble: H7179 and the day H3117 that cometh H935 shall burn them up, H3857 saith H559 the LORD H3068 of hosts, H6635 that it shall leave H5800 them neither root H8328 nor branch. H6057
Isaiah 1:31New International Version (NIV)


31 The mighty man will become tinder
and his work a spark;
both will burn together,
with no one to quench the fire.”
 
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badger58

Guest
Rev 11:5 And G2532 if any man G1536 G846 will G2309 hurt G91 them, G846 fire G4442 proceedeth G1607 out of G1537 their G846 mouth, G4750 and G2532 devoureth G2719 their G846 enemies: G2190 and G2532 if any man G1536 will G2309 hurt G91 them, G846 he must G1163 in this manner G3779 be killed. G615
Mal 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day H3117 cometh, H935 that shall burn H1197 as an oven; H8574 and all the proud, H2086 yea, and all that do H6213 wickedly, H7564 shall be stubble: H7179 and the day H3117 that cometh H935 shall burn them up, H3857 saith H559 the LORD H3068 of hosts, H6635 that it shall leave H5800 them neither root H8328 nor branch. H6057


◄ Psalm 97:3 ►






Parallel Verses

King James Version
A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
You do not seem to have a Berean spirit, you should just keep out of this discussion if you have nothing to offer. This is for those that are willing to search the scripture. If you think I haven't done my homework, you are mistaken. It never ceases to amaze me that some claiming to be Christians can be so closed minded like the Pharisees. Do you think the deciples had that kind of mindset. I THINK NOT!
The only discussion you are having is with yourself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger