The works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification

[just-me]

So, as long as no one else is adding to this thread, I will reiterate a point that I was trying to make that I wish people in the Christian sector could understand and endorse it to the populace of this country. In order, God has worked the 6 days of creation, given of the law by his righteousness, the faith is a gift from Him producing works by faith, and He justifies us through His works and gift to us called salvation. It's all from Him so it really shouldn't read "works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification". see post #262, through #264 and # 258
[h=2][/h]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe it's because I love my country and feeling like you were being confrontational. Time will tell. I just see a great evil in the world, and I don't feel that it is being addressed properly. It's all because of love, I guess.
Waiting for us to continue with understanding and the peace that passes all understanding.

We can also discuss in the private mail if you would like that.

I love my country too. I am retired from the military, I gave part of my life to my country.

maybe you can reread what I said, and tell me what you think.. now that your not angry, I know how when you are angry you can read over things and not get the jist of what was said.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, as long as no one else is adding to this thread, I will reiterate a point that I was trying to make that I wish people in the Christian sector could understand and endorse it to the populace of this country. In order, God has worked the 6 days of creation, given of the law by his righteousness, the faith is a gift from Him producing works by faith, and He justifies us through His works and gift to us called salvation. It's all from Him so it really shouldn't read "works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification". see post #262, through #264 and # 258

I re-read my post. I can see how it might have been confrontational.. I might have been having a bad day with legalists who add law to grace, and wrote out of this. I will attempt to repost in a more humble manner.

1. American (and world) moral values have declined, Not because of lack of adherance to some law. But because of self serving interests.

2. 100 years ago and more. people were more apt to help and think of others than self. today it is all about self. And everything we see from commercials, to self help, to psychiatry pushes this vision.

3. I do not see trying to go back to law is NOT going to help. The law condemns and it judges.. since it judges. people will not find renewal and repentance instead, you will find a stiff hand in your face saying how dare you judge me. (I see it all the time)

what we need to do is get people away from self centerdness. and get to other thinking. This is the example Jesus showed. he did not go around shoving the law in sinners faces, he did not have to, they already knew they were sinners. you could tell by their reaction. It was the pharisees job to judge, and because of it, they will be judged.

it is no different today. You do not need to tell people they are sinners, THEY ALREADY KNOW. show them love and forgiveness, as Jesus did. and how the things of this world do not make us happy, even though society will tell you different, prove society wrong, people will come in groves. Everyone wants to find what is missing, Christ is the ONLY one who can satisfy our inner selves.. this is what people need ot hear. Not thou shalt not this or that!

 

[just-me]

I love my country too. I am retired from the military, I gave part of my life to my country.

maybe you can reread what I said, and tell me what you think.. now that your not angry, I know how when you are angry you can read over things and not get the jist of what was said.

Sorry about my frustration. Which posts are you referring to? I mean the ones that say what you were wanting to. There's much that wasn't necessary on both our parts more than likely. I can't really say that I was angry, but I have been rejected through the years by religious legalistic assumptions on the part of others. It has done damage to my family and churches we have been a members, and I would say more like; WOW, hear we go again, but God is a healer of broken hearts, and He sends the comforter as we are in need. I know you have had your problems also, because I have truly read what you have said, and I could see your frustration.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry about my frustration. Which posts are you referring to? I mean the ones that say what you were wanting to. There's much that wasn't necessary on both our parts more than likely. I can't really say that I was angry, but I have been rejected through the years by religious legalistic assumptions on the part of others. It has done damage to my family and churches we have been a members, and I would say more like; WOW, hear we go again, but God is a healer of broken hearts, and He sends the comforter as we are in need. I know you have had your problems also, because I have truly read what you have said, and I could see your frustration.

sounds like we had the same thing with legalists. Which is why I fight it so hard..

My father was engrained with this stuff. I used to hate going out with him, all he did was judge. No love.. Its like dad, if they are not saved, Your not going to save them that way!

the post was the one I just posted.. or one of them,, there are others, I guess I have to look them up.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

here are two other things I said.

I did notice I was having a heated conversation with mikey and john about law and grace (they believe one can sin themselves out of salvation) So when I saw you, I just assumed you were one of them. forgive me.

1. SO you have no proof of these churches. Ok thank you
2. The handwriting is on the wall. Legalism and law lead to death. The world is missing something, they sin because they are trying to filla void. and these sins do not fill that void so they try other sins, And ongoing never ending trial of trying to fill that void left by the fall of mankind.

We need to show people, by our lives, that this void can only be filled by Christ. This is why God said to be lights to the world. Not judging them, but SHOWING them the way by our lives.

this is an excellent example of how we work the law of faith.

God says do not steel. Thats all great and stuff. But it is not going to stop a guy from steeling.. or cause them to not want to (unless they are trying to get something out of it, which would be sin because it is self motivated.)

how do we do it by faith?

1. We trust (faith) God to supply our needs
2. We trust God that says if we work, he will supply those needs.
3. We take the focus off self. (work is hard, Work is laborious and I hate it) and place our focus on God. (work is rewarding)
4. We place focus on others (who am I to take what God Gave them, Better that I should work, so I can help others in need. and allow God to use me)

you see. the law focuses on self, which is what it was intended to do. It is when we focus on others we learn to fulfill the things condemned by the law.

 

[just-me]

Hear is how it all started and what I wrote.
#250
This entire thread started with this somewhat confusing question. Maybe we ought to address it rather than display controversy.
Romans 9:30-32 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Whether Jew or Gentile, faith is the justifier. If one keeps the law of the Old Testament, and has the faith King David had, (approved by God) it doesn’t mean He had a stumbling block in his life because he kept the Mosaic Law.
#258
Just a question concerning the law, not the Mosaic law but the law of our founding fathers in America. Do you think that our country would be better off if we would have kept that law, that was patterned after the Bible law in many respects. I'm not saying that this would make believers in Christ Jesus, just asking about enforcing the law and not legislating corruption like we have been doing for the last few decades. You may think that this question doesn't apply to the subject at hand, but I'm trying to lay a foundation to clarify an answer to the original question of this thread.
#262
When I speak about laws, I see them as a deterrent of crime. The Mosaic law is in 3 parts Levitical, that Jesus completely fulfilled, the moral concerning love of God and our brothers, and the consequence of breaking the 2nd. If we were to abide by the moral part that we are responsible for, in truth, as it was first given, (the moral persuasions thereof), we not only would be in the will of God as a nation, but also be knit together in brotherly love and respect. And our nation wouldn't be in the critical mess that it is in today. If we were a nation under God, such as our pledge to the flag depicts, why would our churches teach against the moral aspect of the Mosaic law?
#263
So this is a loaded statement that puts the same thing at odds with one another in my mind. The works of the law does not bring righteousness or justification. Faith in God and the three aspects which I mentioned above, is righteous. That's God's righteousness toward us. Faith in that righteousness through Jesus Christ justifies us. So God gave the law and He didn't give us anything unrighteous. As Christians it should be our heart's desire to reciprocate by faith to His righteousness, including the Mosaic Law in the proper context as God intended through Christ Jesus.

The ZONE brings up the Jewish Roots thing and throws it at me. Has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

#279
So to finalize my thoughts. Accordingly, we can all agree that this country was founded upon the principle that our self-governing principles were of the people, by the people, and for the people. Knowing then that most American citizens were church going people, 50 to 100 years ago, the fault lies with the people bringing this country to the point of being non-prosperous with escalating crime. Rhetorically then, what are "we the people" doing wrong, that we continue to see this degradation? Could it be that we are preaching in many of our churches that the Mosaic Law is replaced and extinct, being extinct by the grace of Jesus Christ? Maybe we should reconnoiter and adopt the moral aspects of the law given to Moses, and start teaching, and preaching that the Mosaic Law is valid, and has it's place through Christ Jesus. Here is some scripture that I think could, and should be used from behind the pulpit.
Galatians 3:24-26 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Considering verse 25, what tool do we have left to bring others to Christ Jesus if we have forsaken it? How many false conversions might there be because of this discrepancy? So the works of the law and works by faith to justification should not be at odds with one another. They should work together hand in hand. Wisdom is what we need. It’s takes education to know that a tomato is really a fruit, but it takes wisdom to know that one doesn’t use it in fruit salad.

#280

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

I keep hearing this over and over. But I never see it./ Does anyone have some examples of these churches? has anyone seen one they can direct to our attention?

This easy believism Gospel is around I have no doubt, But I do not think it is as rampant as people claim. And it is nothing new. James fought it in his epistle. Jude condemned it. Paul faught it, although not as hard, since his attention was dirrected to the legalistic jews trying to add the law to the gospel of Christ.

This is a far more danger, legalism and its works based self boasting Gospel that is taught by so many in the name of Christ. Which not only mocks and defames his work on the cross. leads far more people to hell than easy believism will ever do.



The handwriting is on the wall, the proof is in the pudding. People, get ready because it's coming. How do we know? The Bible tells us so.
Proverbs 1:7-9 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.
#282
1. SO you have no proof of these churches. Ok thank you
2. The handwriting is on the wall. Legalism and law lead to death. The world is missing something, they sin because they are trying to filla void. and these sins do not fill that void so they try other sins, And ongoing never ending trial of trying to fill that void left by the fall of mankind.

We need to show people, by our lives, that this void can only be filled by Christ. This is why God said to be lights to the world. Not judging them, but SHOWING them the way by our lives.

#283, and we're off and running
Thanks for proving what I was saying in the last few posts. It's pretty clear to others reading this thread. May God bless you with wisdom.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hear is how it all started and what I wrote.
#250
This entire thread started with this somewhat confusing question. Maybe we ought to address it rather than display controversy.
Romans 9:30-32 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Whether Jew or Gentile, faith is the justifier. If one keeps the law of the Old Testament, and has the faith King David had, (approved by God) it doesn’t mean He had a stumbling block in his life because he kept the Mosaic Law.
#258
Just a question concerning the law, not the Mosaic law but the law of our founding fathers in America. Do you think that our country would be better off if we would have kept that law, that was patterned after the Bible law in many respects. I'm not saying that this would make believers in Christ Jesus, just asking about enforcing the law and not legislating corruption like we have been doing for the last few decades. You may think that this question doesn't apply to the subject at hand, but I'm trying to lay a foundation to clarify an answer to the original question of this thread.
#262
When I speak about laws, I see them as a deterrent of crime. The Mosaic law is in 3 parts Levitical, that Jesus completely fulfilled, the moral concerning love of God and our brothers, and the consequence of breaking the 2nd. If we were to abide by the moral part that we are responsible for, in truth, as it was first given, (the moral persuasions thereof), we not only would be in the will of God as a nation, but also be knit together in brotherly love and respect. And our nation wouldn't be in the critical mess that it is in today. If we were a nation under God, such as our pledge to the flag depicts, why would our churches teach against the moral aspect of the Mosaic law?
#263
So this is a loaded statement that puts the same thing at odds with one another in my mind. The works of the law does not bring righteousness or justification. Faith in God and the three aspects which I mentioned above, is righteous. That's God's righteousness toward us. Faith in that righteousness through Jesus Christ justifies us. So God gave the law and He didn't give us anything unrighteous. As Christians it should be our heart's desire to reciprocate by faith to His righteousness, including the Mosaic Law in the proper context as God intended through Christ Jesus.

The ZONE brings up the Jewish Roots thing and throws it at me. Has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

#279
So to finalize my thoughts. Accordingly, we can all agree that this country was founded upon the principle that our self-governing principles were of the people, by the people, and for the people. Knowing then that most American citizens were church going people, 50 to 100 years ago, the fault lies with the people bringing this country to the point of being non-prosperous with escalating crime. Rhetorically then, what are "we the people" doing wrong, that we continue to see this degradation? Could it be that we are preaching in many of our churches that the Mosaic Law is replaced and extinct, being extinct by the grace of Jesus Christ? Maybe we should reconnoiter and adopt the moral aspects of the law given to Moses, and start teaching, and preaching that the Mosaic Law is valid, and has it's place through Christ Jesus. Here is some scripture that I think could, and should be used from behind the pulpit.
Galatians 3:24-26 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Considering verse 25, what tool do we have left to bring others to Christ Jesus if we have forsaken it? How many false conversions might there be because of this discrepancy? So the works of the law and works by faith to justification should not be at odds with one another. They should work together hand in hand. Wisdom is what we need. It’s takes education to know that a tomato is really a fruit, but it takes wisdom to know that one doesn’t use it in fruit salad.

#280

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

I keep hearing this over and over. But I never see it./ Does anyone have some examples of these churches? has anyone seen one they can direct to our attention?

This easy believism Gospel is around I have no doubt, But I do not think it is as rampant as people claim. And it is nothing new. James fought it in his epistle. Jude condemned it. Paul faught it, although not as hard, since his attention was dirrected to the legalistic jews trying to add the law to the gospel of Christ.

This is a far more danger, legalism and its works based self boasting Gospel that is taught by so many in the name of Christ. Which not only mocks and defames his work on the cross. leads far more people to hell than easy believism will ever do.



The handwriting is on the wall, the proof is in the pudding. People, get ready because it's coming. How do we know? The Bible tells us so.
Proverbs 1:7-9 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.
#282
1. SO you have no proof of these churches. Ok thank you
2. The handwriting is on the wall. Legalism and law lead to death. The world is missing something, they sin because they are trying to filla void. and these sins do not fill that void so they try other sins, And ongoing never ending trial of trying to fill that void left by the fall of mankind.

We need to show people, by our lives, that this void can only be filled by Christ. This is why God said to be lights to the world. Not judging them, but SHOWING them the way by our lives.

#283, and we're off and running
Thanks for proving what I was saying in the last few posts. It's pretty clear to others reading this thread. May God bless you with wisdom.

lol. One thing you must remember.

the name of the thread itself lends to be asking if righteousness comes by the law, or by faith (works vs faith) Which is what MOST people were arguing.

Seems you just got caught in the middle of an argument, And it appeared you were supporting the work of rightoueness through the law.

Thats why you probably got hammered.. Then you seemed to support those we wer arguing with, who DO BELIEVE in a works righteousness of the law Which made it worst..

This chatroom can be brutal..

Thats why I was trying to get you to read what I said, to show you I was not disagreeing with you. But showing you what I thought the problem with america was..Then just-me2 called me a kid.. And BAMB..WW4

 

[just-me]

I thought you were accusing me of judging in post #283. I suppose I was, but there are differences in judging. one is condemnation, and the other is discernment. If I endorse the law in a way to exhort other Christians to discern what the law is good for concerning our country, and they say we are saved by grace and that's all that matters, or something of that sort, I agree with them, but some fail to understand that I'm not addressing how one is saved through Christ Jesus, I'm only identifying the tool God has given us to maintain our country because God will bless according to His principles. The people that are supposed to have that information are the churches throughout this land. If they reject the education of what God gave Moses, we are unable to influence, and persuade people to want to behave morally whether Christians or not. Less killing of children, less same sex marriage, etc. But what I have seen is the teaching of grace, and rejection of the law, and both would be good for all. What is the problem with endorsing both in the proper manner Christ intended. So I ask myself, why are we so angry at the Mosaic Law, and then turn around and complain about the moral decline, and monetary failure that is happening right before our eyes? I'm not condemning anybody in this thread. What I am doing is discerning the situation. Others can call it condemnation if they want. That's fine. Just sharing with you eternally-greatfull, not at all including you in this explanation. Just would like Christians to see what I see.

 

[just-me]

lol. One thing you must remember.

the name of the thread itself lends to be asking if righteousness comes by the law, or by faith (works vs faith) Which is what MOST people were arguing.

Seems you just got caught in the middle of an argument, And it appeared you were supporting the work of rightoueness through the law.

Thats why you probably got hammered.. Then you seemed to support those we wer arguing with, who DO BELIEVE in a works righteousness of the law Which made it worst..

This chatroom can be brutal..

Thats why I was trying to get you to read what I said, to show you I was not disagreeing with you. But showing you what I thought the problem with america was..Then just-me2 called me a kid.. And BAMB..WW4

What I was endorsing concerning the name of the thread is that one should not be considered "versus" the other. I believe if we have the proper comparison of scriptures, rightly dividing the Word of Truth, there would be no controversy between the two. I will always believe that the entire Bible works toward one purpose and that is to be in the will of God. There is no one thing in the Bible that is less important than anything else. Satan's devices take away or add to creation in order to distort it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I thought you were accusing me of judging in post #283. I suppose I was, but there are differences in judging. one is condemnation, and the other is discernment. If I endorse the law in a way to exhort other Christians to discern what the law is good for concerning our country, and they say we are saved by grace and that's all that matters, or something of that sort, I agree with them, but some fail to understand that I'm not addressing how one is saved through Christ Jesus, I'm only identifying the tool God has given us to maintain our country because God will bless according to His principles. The people that are supposed to have that information are the churches throughout this land. If they reject the education of what God gave Moses, we are unable to influence, and persuade people to want to behave morally whether Christians or not. Less killing of children, less same sex marriage, etc. But what I have seen is the teaching of grace, and rejection of the law, and both would be good for all. What is the problem with endorsing both in the proper manner Christ intended. So I ask myself, why are we so angry at the Mosaic Law, and then turn around and complain about the moral decline, and monetary failure that is happening right before our eyes? I'm not condemning anybody in this thread. What I am doing is discerning the situation. Others can call it condemnation if they want. That's fine. Just sharing with you eternally-greatfull, not at all including you in this explanation. Just would like Christians to see what I see.

I have no problem.

As I was saying, What I think people need is Christ. If we give them Christ, all the other stuff will go away.

If it is a profesing Christian, And he is openly committing sin and says you should give him grace. Then by all means, Throw the book at him (evidently discipling has not helped by this time)

If it is an unbeliever, what good is it to judge his own sin? he already know inside it is a sin, What he needs to know is we are all sinners. But God loves us so much he gace his son for us., The world wants us to think these things make us happy, But do they? what God has is far more personal and fulfilling.

A non believer can not stop sin, He needs gods help.. He needs saved first. THEN we can work on his sin issues.

As I said, I have seen leglaism destroy peoples lives. It caused me to be a prodigal son for 5 years because my wife kicked me out for another man, And I knew the church would judge me so I ran..better to run, then be told your not going to go to heaven because your getting a divorce.

So when it comes to legalism. I will fight tooth and nail. Just sometimes, I fight to hard..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What I was endorsing concerning the name of the thread is that one should not be considered "versus" the other. I believe if we have the proper comparison of scriptures, rightly dividing the Word of Truth, there would be no controversy between the two. I will always believe that the entire Bible works toward one purpose and that is to be in the will of God. There is no one thing in the Bible that is less important than anything else. Satan's devices take away or add to creation in order to distort it.

and I would agree with you 100 %, it is not the bible that messes things up. It is people trying to mix law and grace that does. It is these people we should all be holding accountable to truth, because they lead others to their law saving lie.

 

[just-me]

Just-us 2 wrote this "I am not usurping authority over a man by this, simply trying to help a younger person not much older than my children."

and then she signed it

"Best wishes in your Christian walk."

Sorry that you took it as a demeaning statement. My wife meant well. It's all over now and God is blessing our understanding.

 

[just-me]

and I would agree with you 100 %, it is not the bible that messes things up. It is people trying to mix law and grace that does. It is these people we should all be holding accountable to truth, because they lead others to their law saving lie.

Anyone that says they are believer in Christ, I take them at their word. Not that I am better than anyone else for sure, but I think I understand more quickly that some because of personal experience. I went to a Messianic assembly once trying to get more aquainted with their understanding. I learn absolutely nothing! It was all about don't do this and don't do that. We quit after about 6 weeks. couldn't take it no more

 

[just-me]

I have no problem.

As I was saying, What I think people need is Christ. If we give them Christ, all the other stuff will go away.

If it is a profesing Christian, And he is openly committing sin and says you should give him grace. Then by all means, Throw the book at him (evidently discipling has not helped by this time)

If it is an unbeliever, what good is it to judge his own sin? he already know inside it is a sin, What he needs to know is we are all sinners. But God loves us so much he gace his son for us., The world wants us to think these things make us happy, But do they? what God has is far more personal and fulfilling.

A non believer can not stop sin, He needs gods help.. He needs saved first. THEN we can work on his sin issues.

As I said, I have seen leglaism destroy peoples lives. It caused me to be a prodigal son for 5 years because my wife kicked me out for another man, And I knew the church would judge me so I ran..better to run, then be told your not going to go to heaven because your getting a divorce.

So when it comes to legalism. I will fight tooth and nail. Just sometimes, I fight to hard..

We are all products of our past I guess. I think I understand you a whole lot better now. I will continue though, to endorse the law as God intended because I love my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, and I love this country also. What really stung my wife was hearing a statement that if we honor our veterans we are worshiping them. There has been a lot of talk not conductive to understanding, but I sure am happy that we see each other as we really are. I like the heart to heart stuff between brothers in Christ. Very good.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just-us 2 wrote this "I am not usurping authority over a man by this, simply trying to help a younger person not much older than my children."

and then she signed it

"Best wishes in your Christian walk."

Sorry that you took it as a demeaning statement. My wife meant well. It's all over now and God is blessing our understanding.

lol, no this is not what got to me. I told her this did not offend me and a woman should be able to talk.

it was this that got to me.

Well, young man, and you are young (you remind me of what my three children used to say when they were in their teens – they knew it all), I read your post, and am doing as you requested, as I did earlier. Furthermore, I am disappointed that you are so caught up in, sorry to say, your own thoughts and can’t see that you have been answered in spite of your attempts to derail the thread.

But as you said, It is all over, Tell her sorry if there was a misunderstanding, and I hope she joins us again!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are all products of our past I guess. I think I understand you a whole lot better now. I will continue though, to endorse the law as God intended because I love my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, and I love this country also. What really stung my wife was hearing a statement that if we honor our veterans we are worshiping them. There has been a lot of talk not conductive to understanding, but I sure am happy that we see each other as we really are. I like the heart to heart stuff between brothers in Christ. Very good.

Brother, when it comes to talking to Christians, I am with you 100 %, the whole councel of God.

What I am leary of is talking to the world who needs God. I do not want to be a pharisee trying to judge them. I want to show light how Jesus did, Love them first. Show them they are forgiven, then when they come to him, Go and continue in sin no more..

Yes, that stung me a but also. I do not want to be worshiped. But I praise my brothers in arms, who are risking their life for me every day.. I wish they were home, But they have to do what their commander in chief says, whether it is right or wrong, He is the leader.

I got hurt in the first gulf war. Here at home (go figure) but it was because of the war.. I am medically retired because of it.. But God has blessed me with a great job and a great church..

 

[DiscipleDave]

I certainly am not twisting scripture to make it fit my doctrine. To me, it is obvious, clear and simple, just look at most professing Christian's lives and at the scriptures, and the proof in undeniable.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
When we sin after we first received Christ in our hearts, all sins that were committed in the past were remitted and stricken from the record by the blood of Jesus, not the present and future.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The 'once for all', means that Jesus does not have to come back and do the whole process of suffering, dying, and being raised from the dead all over again, for your sins, or anyone else's sins, that were committed before they came to Christ. Once was all that was, or ever will be needed for Christ to be the sacrificial lamb for all people and for all time.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I believe the letter to the Hebrews was to Christians, and the above verses have to do with punishment from God to the disobedient, not to the point of losing their salvation, but to where the curses of the law come into effect, in this present world.

You are not far from the Kingdom of God. To KNOW what you are saying above is to KNOW what the Holy Ghost teaches, which Scriptures backs up.

Again, it pleases my heart, you are not far from the Kingdom of God.

^i^

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When we sin after we first received Christ in our hearts, all sins that were committed in the past were remitted and stricken from the record by the blood of Jesus, not the present and future.

If Christ's sacrifice only covers your past sins, what sacrifice is there for the sins you commit afterwards?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If Christ's sacrifice only covers your past sins, what sacrifice is there for the sins you commit afterwards?

He died 2000 years ago. How would he die for just my past sin, when even they were to be yet commited 2000 years later.

this reasoning I never understood. But it is very popular!