Thief on the Cross

[Wansvic]

his baptism is of fire,

So what then do we make of the fire to be water?

No. They are two separate experiences:

We obey the command to be water baptized in Jesus' name.
God fills people with His Spirit and fire. At times people have had hands laid upon them to receive it. (Acts 8:12-17; 19:2-6) And, other times God pours it into people without the assistance of others/disciples. (Acts 2:1; 10:44-48) Take notice both water and Holy Ghost infilling was experienced in the scriptures noted.

Keep in mind that John the Baptist did not say that Holy Ghost baptism would replace the need for people to get baptized in water. Water baptism was still administered after the Holy Ghost came. The one difference was people were required to get water baptized in Jesus' name. Taking on the name of Jesus in water baptism was also required of those that had already been baptized by John. If was so important the people had to be re-baptized. (Acts 19:2-6)

Matt 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



Acts 2:2-4
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[mailmandan]

Which baptism do you think He was distressed about John’s baptism?

Luke 12:50
But I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am distressed until it should be accomplished!

Of course Jesus was not distressed about water baptism, but being "immersed" into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross.

 

[Hevosmies358]

Gotta love this self-inflicted wound of Christianity........ Just get baptized once you get saved and no need to worry about if its related to salvation.

In the Bible times the two were so closely related because folks got baptized right away, its almost identical to getting saved because once you do get saved the guy preaching to you says "Do you believe?" you say "YUP!" then LETS GO to the closest POND and get you baptized. (Note: No sprinkling from a water glass)

 

[JamOn]

Gotta love this self-inflicted wound of Christianity........ Just get baptized once you get saved and no need to worry about if its related to salvation.

In the Bible times the two were so closely related because folks got baptized right away, its almost identical to getting saved because once you do get saved the guy preaching to you says "Do you believe?" you say "YUP!" then LETS GO to the closest POND and get you baptized. (Note: No sprinkling from a water glass)

I guess If a person lives in a drought stricken area with little water, out of luck if they can’t get their whole body immerse

immerse, dip or sprinkle, hmm probably in another 50 yrs there will be 10 more ways to do it

 

[JamOn]

Then raises the question who does the baptism, is there any requirements for the performer?

 

[JamOn]

No. They are two separate experiences:

We obey the command to be water baptized in Jesus' name.
God fills people with His Spirit and fire. At times people have had hands laid upon them to receive it. (Acts 8:12-17; 19:2-6) And, other times God pours it into people without the assistance of others/disciples. (Acts 2:1; 10:44-48) Take notice both water and Holy Ghost infilling was experienced in the scriptures noted.

Keep in mind that John the Baptist did not say that Holy Ghost baptism would replace the need for people to get baptized in water. Water baptism was still administered after the Holy Ghost came. The one difference was people were required to get water baptized in Jesus' name. Taking on the name of Jesus in water baptism was also required of those that had already been baptized by John. If was so important the people had to be re-baptized. (Acts 19:2-6)

Matt 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



Acts 2:2-4
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

It appears your saying 3 things to be saved, water baptism fire baptism receive Holy Spirit. Any more requirements?

 

[Wansvic]

I guess If a person lives in a drought stricken area with little water, out of luck if they can’t get their whole body immerse

immerse, dip or sprinkle, hmm probably in another 50 yrs there will be 10 more ways to do it

We do know that nothing is impossible with God. Surely those who wish to be obedient will be given the opportunity.

 

[JamOn]

We do know that nothing is impossible with God. Surely those who wish to be obedient will be given the opportunity.

Yes Sir, and I think even in areas with little opportunity

 

[Wansvic]

Then raises the question who does the baptism, is there any requirements for the performer?

Church organizations seem to require only elders, etc. But Jesus words and the record in the Book of Acts say otherwise.

The bible says disciples, those who have heard the gospel, been water baptized in the name of our Lord Jesus, and have received the Holy Spirit are to go out and make more disciples. (Matt 28:19 and Luke 24:49)

 

[JamOn]

Church organizations seem to require only elders, etc. But Jesus words and the record in the Book of Acts say otherwise.

The bible says disciples, those who have heard the gospel, been water baptized in the name of our Lord Jesus, and have received the Holy Spirit are to go out and make more disciples. (Matt 28:19 and Luke 24:49)

How does a person know the one who is baptizing is all that.

 

[Wansvic]

It appears your saying 3 things to be saved, water baptism fire baptism receive Holy Spirit. Any more requirements?

The bible says it best:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (My comment: Now that we know this what are we supposed to do?)

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (My comment: Notice Peter didn't say now that you have heard and believe the message about Jesus you are good to go. No. He said something different.)

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41

 

[JamOn]

The bible says it best:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (My comment: Now that we know this what are we supposed to do?)

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (My comment: Notice Peter didn't say now that you have heard and believe the message about Jesus you are good to go. No. He said something different.)

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41

Baptized in the name. I know many would love to add the word water to it, being baptized of spirit does not mean of physical water.

the name is fire

 

[JamOn]

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart,

they believed, the woman at the well heard it, the tax collecter, the adulterous woman, the thief on the cross heard it.

 

[Wansvic]

Baptized in the name. I know many would love to add the word water to it, being baptized of spirit does not mean of physical water.

the name is fire

Peter speaks of both water baptism and the infilling of the Spirit. This is clearly seen in the Word: Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul's baptism.

 

[Wansvic]

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart,

they believed, the woman at the well heard it, the tax collecter, the adulterous woman, the thief on the cross heard it.

None of the people you mention heard the message of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection and the instructions one must follow upon hearing and accepting it as truth.

Jesus' interaction with the people you mention took place prior to His sacrifice on the cross.

 

[JamOn]

Peter speaks of both water baptism and the infilling of the Spirit. This is clearly seen in the Word: Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul's baptism.

does any of those verses have the word water?

 

[JamOn]

None of the people you mention heard the message of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection and the instructions one must follow upon hearing and accepting it as truth.

Jesus' interaction with the people you mention took place prior to His sacrifice on the cross.

Any proof that they didnt not hear, the woman at the well went and told others,

I have ask others this, my family had me baptized as a baby, I have not been baptized since, am I not saved?

 

[JamOn]

This is Where I think is the transformation from water to spirit, even John was not saying in the name of Jesus Christ I baptized you for he didn’t know him.

John 1
32Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. 33I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’

 

[JamOn]

Guess continue the water until the seas, rivers, lakes and ponds are gone with the earth.

 

[JamOn]

There’s people in the world that would probably cut off a finger for a cup of water, while others bask in it.

makes me wonder.