Thief on the Cross

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
It appears some want to extend this simple statement,

Matt 11
30 “My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
Jesus yoke is easy and His burden is light. OT believers had to obey the command and have a portion of skin literally cut off. Today one need only follow the example Jesus left and be obedient by stepping into the God ordained waters of baptism
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
And clearly I think Jesus wasn’t saying repent by being baptized, but believe

(Luke 10:13-16)

20Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.

23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
The command is to repent and be water baptized and receive the Holy Ghost.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
I don't remember that Jesus was present for full-immersion water baptisms of certain individuals but He did turn water into wine at the wedding at Cana. The chief wine steward said it was an exceptional choice wine. I am quite sure that Jesus approves of baptisms very much.
John 3:22-23 and John 4:1-3 mention Jesus' attendance during water baptisms.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
I don't remember that Jesus was present for full-immersion water baptisms of certain individuals but He did turn water into wine at the wedding at Cana. The chief wine steward said it was an exceptional choice wine. I am quite sure that Jesus approves of baptisms very much.
What is the significance between water baptism and Jesus' turning water from purification jugs into wine at the Cana wedding?
 

tumeric

Junior Member
Apr 1, 2015
39
4
8
I READ TWO DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS ABOUT THE THEIVES ON THE CROSS IN THE BIBLE / IN TWO DIFFERENT GOSPELS
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,598
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
I READ TWO DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS ABOUT THE THEIVES ON THE CROSS IN THE BIBLE / IN TWO DIFFERENT GOSPELS
Not really two different accounts but rather two accounts with different details that are mentioned, neither of which one contradict the other.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Well that's good to know that you will continue to ask questions? And so what about the religious leaders of Jesus' day refusing water baptism. What's more important them refusing water baptism or refusing to asknowledge Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Messiah?

Do you want to know that's really ironic? The last act Jesus did on that cross was to save the theif without him getting baptized. Then at the start of Jesus' ministry the first thing He does is get water baptized, why? He was not a sinner, He did not need to repent so why did He get baptized?

Matthew 3:15 says, "Permit it this time; for this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Do you know what that means? By submitting to John's baptism Jesus is demonstrating that He is a good and obedient Son who does His Fathers will perfectly. Also notice Jesus used the word "us" in the verse which includes John.

Also notice at Matthew 3:17, "and behold, a voice out of the heavens saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." So here His Father is giving Jesus His blessing at the start of His ministry. Now, what were the very last words of Jesus at Matthew 28:19-20? "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (Making disciples first and then baptizing them) Vs20, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo I am with you, always, even to the end of the age."

So the point or should I say one of the points is the fact that a disciple is already saved he is then baptized to show He is a follower of Jesus Christ. Again, an outward sign of an inward grace demonstrating he is working for the Lord God. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
John's message was to prepare the way of the Lord through repentance and water baptism. (Matt 3:1-3, 5-6)

ALSO,
Your interpretation of Matthew 28 is that one becomes a disciple through teaching and then gets water baptized. When upon the teaching of the gospel one obeys and gets baptized and becomes a disciple.

According to Jesus, disciples have to be equipped before beginning their own ministry of sharing the gospel with others. This is seen in Jesus words just prior to the outpouring of the Holy Ghost. (Luke 24:45-49)

"Then opened he (Jesus) their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Jesus explained that repentance and remission of sins should be preached BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM: This took place in Acts 2 where instructions were given to repent, get water baptized EVERYONE in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
Preaching the need for water baptism would have been included in the gospel message. Administering water baptism was at some times done by him (Acts 19) and by others on some occasions.
Spirit baptism is that which saves, water baptism is the expression, is a person lost aka not saved without the expression? is that what you mean?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Your contradicting yourself wansvic? When I said and others have said that water baptism is an outward sign of an inward grace you ask where is this in the Bible? I showed how in my last post to you. So the questions is, why are you now agreeing that when one is water baptized he is identifying with the burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
You misunderstand what I meant. Water baptism has nothing to do with making a public display it is where the spiritual re-birth takes place.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Well that's good to know that you will continue to ask questions?
My point was that people were asking questions of me and I would continue to answer regardless of whether someone wanted me to.

I am in no means closed minded and have questions. No one knows everything and least of all me. However, when it comes to baptism I am confident in what God has shown me. He has led me on a journey for over 20 years opening my understanding where water baptism is concerned. Not denominational beliefs. But revealing it within the pages of the Word.

Whether you or anyone else chooses to believe what I share is entirely up to you. But I will not stop preaching what I know to be true.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
You misunderstand what I meant. Water baptism has nothing to do with making a public display it is where the spiritual re-birth takes place.
Which baptism do you think He was distressed about John’s baptism?

Luke 12:50
But I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am distressed until it should be accomplished!
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
but why would salvation be more difficult now than in o.t times? i thought this covenant was supposed to be better not worse? that doesnt make much sense. now its so many step process and difficult.

have faith
repent
be baptized in water (in Jesus' name you say)
be baptized in Holy Spirit (how?)
speak in tongues (okay how to know who is faking under peer pressure to fit in, most i say)
remain holy for rest of life and you make it


sounds like lots of works.
I think people don't consider that whether someone thinks following the instructions is difficult or not doesn't change the fact that the instructions are given.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Yes thanks for pointing that out, you see at the time they didn’t have a fully formed bible as we have today.
What you read in acts is quoting what John said, at that moment

read what verse 5 says upon hearing it.

placed Matthew which Paul was speaking about.

1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the interiora and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?”

“No,” they answered, “we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

3“Into what, then, were you baptized?” Paul asked.

“The baptism of John,” they replied.

4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the One coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.
Yes. They heard the same message given by Peter on the Day of Pentecost and obeyed by submitted to water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost. If water baptism was no longer necessary 20 years after Pentecost than Paul would have just laid hands upon them. Why bother to get water baptized?
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
Yes. They heard the same message given by Peter on the Day of Pentecost and obeyed by submitted to water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost. If water baptism was no longer necessary 20 years after Pentecost than Paul would have just laid hands upon them. Why bother to get water baptized?
That’s what was done in acts 8 and in 12 & 13 it’s was quick believe and baptized of fire.

12But when they believed Philip as he preached the gospel of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Even Simon himself believed and was baptized. He followed Philip closely and was astounded by the great signs and miracles he observed.

14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15On their arrival, they prayed for them to receive the Holy Spirit. 16For the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
In acts things happen to express the statement

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Yes the disciples did baptize what is your opinion on why Jesus did not administer water baptism himself?
I don't know the answer. But that is something I am going to pray about.
Spirit baptism is that which saves, water baptism is the expression, is a person lost aka not saved without the expression? is that what you mean?
The biblical record point to the need for people to get water baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Both are necessary as seen in the Word.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
Which baptism do you think He was distressed about John’s baptism?

Luke 12:50
But I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am distressed until it should be accomplished!
His death on the cross.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
I don't know the answer. But that is something I am going to pray about.

The biblical record point to the need for people to get water baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Both are necessary as seen in the Word.
his baptism is of fire,

So what then do we make of the fire to be water?