Three major things the legalistic Pharisees didn't recognize.
- Thread starter just-me
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Not all Pharisees were pretenders. Paul was a Pharisee as was Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews who had not noticed that the concept of being “born again” was also defined in the scriptures available to all the Pharisees at that time in history.
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?” John 3:10
It isn't that understanding the principles that causes the “born again” experience, but the principles define the reality of it, enabling us to know where we stand in the sight of God. Just like Paul wrote to Timothy; “Study to shew thyself approved unto God.”
We notice that Jesus didn't call Nicodemus a “hypocrite” just because he hadn't understood the scripture he was familiar with. The difference between a hypocrite and Nicodemus is the sincerity factor. Therefore it is obvious that these Pharisaical hypocrites purposefully omitted judgment, mercy, and faith, because they were so consumed in propagating their own doctrine rather than God's original doctrine written in the law, available to them at their discretion causing their digression.
“Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.” Matthew 23:24
So where do we find these 3 things in the law what they (the Pharisees) were supposed to know, concerning judgment, mercy, and faith, using the same scriptures they had that are now (in general) available to all of us?
Let us not be so hypocritical by skirting the issue. (smile)
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?” John 3:10
It isn't that understanding the principles that causes the “born again” experience, but the principles define the reality of it, enabling us to know where we stand in the sight of God. Just like Paul wrote to Timothy; “Study to shew thyself approved unto God.”
We notice that Jesus didn't call Nicodemus a “hypocrite” just because he hadn't understood the scripture he was familiar with. The difference between a hypocrite and Nicodemus is the sincerity factor. Therefore it is obvious that these Pharisaical hypocrites purposefully omitted judgment, mercy, and faith, because they were so consumed in propagating their own doctrine rather than God's original doctrine written in the law, available to them at their discretion causing their digression.
“Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.” Matthew 23:24
So where do we find these 3 things in the law what they (the Pharisees) were supposed to know, concerning judgment, mercy, and faith, using the same scriptures they had that are now (in general) available to all of us?
Let us not be so hypocritical by skirting the issue. (smile)
Last edited:
E
You still do not get it.
What saved paul and nicodemus was not that they finally figured out Judgment Mercy and Faith..
What saved them is they realised I am a filthy sinner, I can;t keep the law. And jesus is the lamb of God who came to remove my sin, because I am guilty of breaking his law.
You scare me just-me, You teach a good word, and like to post alot of scripture. but then you say stuff like this..
How is it you few folks are so quick to call those who obey God as being under the law? Why? Are you offended if people who love God are zealous to please Him as did Jesus Christ?
You still have not confessed the Blood of Jesus Christ as having save your soul. This is a simple request, not like your repeated request for me to read your mind as to what you were referring to. All who believe Jesus Christ are proud of Him for all He hs done for us.
Once more, I confess Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and I am cleansed and set free from sin by His precious Blood. Will you make the good confession? Actually, it is the believer's universal identification.
You still have not confessed the Blood of Jesus Christ as having save your soul. This is a simple request, not like your repeated request for me to read your mind as to what you were referring to. All who believe Jesus Christ are proud of Him for all He hs done for us.
Once more, I confess Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and I am cleansed and set free from sin by His precious Blood. Will you make the good confession? Actually, it is the believer's universal identification.
With every point you bring up it is refuted and because of this "stalemate", you decide to ignore me? It sounds like you're putting your head in the sand. It isn't a matter of arguing incessantly, it a forum where posts get replies and it only goes so far as until you stop posting. Thats the purpose of a forum, discussion. If you mute people who are discussing, then a forum may not be the best avenue for you to chat.
I feel different about us growing in truth. If, indeed, our positions are at opposite spectrums then it seems we both have something to learn. You want to grow in truth? So do I. You present your position and I refute it. I present mine and you attempt to refute it. Back and forth we go, but if indeed you believe yourself to have the truth how inconsiderate of you to stop all conversation. It is like you have the cure for cancer and keep it to yourself. Where is the love? You need endurance in a forum where discussion takes place and can go on for pages, because those who are open to the light will receive it.
If you believe yourself to hold the truth don't put others on ignore. You want to enlighten them, do you not? It is like you have the Gospel and never share it a day in your life. Where is your compassion for man? We have our discussions and who ever is right, whoever holds to true doctrine will clearly reveal itself. If you are honest about growing and seeking truth you would not close your eyes and cover your ears.
You see, you say you don't ignore those who you temporarily disagree with. That is because you lack endurance. You wait until they finally agree with you and then you're okay with them. However, for people who don't ever agree with you, you think you hold the truth and then put them on ignore because they are persistent in revealing what they believe to be the truth. For you to then ignore them, to stop all communication, is selfish and egotistical. You have closed the door to learning when you have ignored others. They might just have something to offer.
I feel different about us growing in truth. If, indeed, our positions are at opposite spectrums then it seems we both have something to learn. You want to grow in truth? So do I. You present your position and I refute it. I present mine and you attempt to refute it. Back and forth we go, but if indeed you believe yourself to have the truth how inconsiderate of you to stop all conversation. It is like you have the cure for cancer and keep it to yourself. Where is the love? You need endurance in a forum where discussion takes place and can go on for pages, because those who are open to the light will receive it.
If you believe yourself to hold the truth don't put others on ignore. You want to enlighten them, do you not? It is like you have the Gospel and never share it a day in your life. Where is your compassion for man? We have our discussions and who ever is right, whoever holds to true doctrine will clearly reveal itself. If you are honest about growing and seeking truth you would not close your eyes and cover your ears.
You see, you say you don't ignore those who you temporarily disagree with. That is because you lack endurance. You wait until they finally agree with you and then you're okay with them. However, for people who don't ever agree with you, you think you hold the truth and then put them on ignore because they are persistent in revealing what they believe to be the truth. For you to then ignore them, to stop all communication, is selfish and egotistical. You have closed the door to learning when you have ignored others. They might just have something to offer.
I am the same person you asked repeatedly " What was Jesus explanation for the way He lived?" Not knowing exactly what you had in your mind, and not being a mind reader, your rejected anything I replied as though I were somekind of dolt. I told you He could only do as His father in heaven does. I answered He is the way and the Truth and the Life. I answered He came to fulfill what was written of Him by the prophets.
Finally, as with my replies you said they were all unsatisfactory, unacceptable, though not in these words, but the meaning was there.
This is "who I ame." Now are you able to confess the Blood of Christ to the Brethren in Christ? I have to you twice now.
My replies were more than satisfactory. So again I ask you to identify yourself, since you are asking who I am. Otherewise stop wasting the time of those seeking to know the Word, Jesus, as best they are given to.
Finally, as with my replies you said they were all unsatisfactory, unacceptable, though not in these words, but the meaning was there.
This is "who I ame." Now are you able to confess the Blood of Christ to the Brethren in Christ? I have to you twice now.
My replies were more than satisfactory. So again I ask you to identify yourself, since you are asking who I am. Otherewise stop wasting the time of those seeking to know the Word, Jesus, as best they are given to.
K
There is so much blindness, and we all are blind to a certain degree..no man/woman know everything there is to know, certainly not I.
@Just-Me and JaumeJ, the ones who follow you around harassing/derailing your threads..they remind me of the women in the assemblies that Paul told to be silent. Yes, where I grew up if a man went around crying and whining he was being ignored? the men would laugh and tell him to go quilt with the women. Ha, crybabies, do you ever once consider that you are at fault?
Is it possible, that Jesus was talking about the Pharisees Takanot and Maasim? You cannot follow men and Almighty. Yeshua's disciples were not accused of violating Torah. They were accused of violating the traditions(Takanot) of the elders. Takanot are laws that change Biblical laws. Perhaps some understanding of real Phariseeism would clear up some confusion. Then, we could examine ourselves to see whether or not we are forsaking the instructions of Almighty in order to follow our own/handed down made up traditions.
Yeshua did not say "do not swear", He said "do not swear falsely". The religious leaders thought they could swear falsely as long as YHWH was not mentioned. So, they were taking money from widows, swearing on the furniture of the temple they would in return take care of the widows and their orphans. They lied. (Yes, I'm saying the KJV left out a word, changing the meaning).
There are many examples of changing Torah by Takanot which allowed the religious leaders to control the people, take their money, keep them on a treadmill of endless rules and regulations negating the pure truth, justice and mercy of Torah. Yeshua called them "blind chairs". (they sat in Moses' seat) "chairs" ..we still use this term today it is a position of authority. Give me Almighty's mercy, grace and justice any day, over man's.
@Just-Me and JaumeJ, the ones who follow you around harassing/derailing your threads..they remind me of the women in the assemblies that Paul told to be silent. Yes, where I grew up if a man went around crying and whining he was being ignored? the men would laugh and tell him to go quilt with the women. Ha, crybabies, do you ever once consider that you are at fault?
Is it possible, that Jesus was talking about the Pharisees Takanot and Maasim? You cannot follow men and Almighty. Yeshua's disciples were not accused of violating Torah. They were accused of violating the traditions(Takanot) of the elders. Takanot are laws that change Biblical laws. Perhaps some understanding of real Phariseeism would clear up some confusion. Then, we could examine ourselves to see whether or not we are forsaking the instructions of Almighty in order to follow our own/handed down made up traditions.
Yeshua did not say "do not swear", He said "do not swear falsely". The religious leaders thought they could swear falsely as long as YHWH was not mentioned. So, they were taking money from widows, swearing on the furniture of the temple they would in return take care of the widows and their orphans. They lied. (Yes, I'm saying the KJV left out a word, changing the meaning).
There are many examples of changing Torah by Takanot which allowed the religious leaders to control the people, take their money, keep them on a treadmill of endless rules and regulations negating the pure truth, justice and mercy of Torah. Yeshua called them "blind chairs". (they sat in Moses' seat) "chairs" ..we still use this term today it is a position of authority. Give me Almighty's mercy, grace and justice any day, over man's.
I detect a certain fear.
In one way that's good.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Proverbs 9:10
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. Hebrews 4:1
In another way it's bad if a certain ungodly fear persists.
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1John 4:18
As long as it hasn't been discussed, and contrarily side stepped, here is some law, concerning righteous judgment, for those who demand to omit it (judgment) such as the hypocrites that Jesus rebuked. That's 1 of 3 for starters.
For hopefully further sane discussion, here is just a short a preview of the law concerning judgment that the hypocrites missed in Leviticus 19:12,15, and 18.
“And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord. Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.”
Is this a good reason to reject the law of righteous judgment that Jesus said the hypocrites omitted from their doctrine? I'm still attempting to get a good edifying discussion going here. Obviously righteous judgment is interconnected with love, but not as great as loving you neighbor as yourself. But love cannot be void of righteous judgment defined in the law, for it is hanging on the love commandment.
Mark 12:30-31
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
How's that for a new start?
In one way that's good.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Proverbs 9:10
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. Hebrews 4:1
In another way it's bad if a certain ungodly fear persists.
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1John 4:18
As long as it hasn't been discussed, and contrarily side stepped, here is some law, concerning righteous judgment, for those who demand to omit it (judgment) such as the hypocrites that Jesus rebuked. That's 1 of 3 for starters.
For hopefully further sane discussion, here is just a short a preview of the law concerning judgment that the hypocrites missed in Leviticus 19:12,15, and 18.
“And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord. Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.”
Is this a good reason to reject the law of righteous judgment that Jesus said the hypocrites omitted from their doctrine? I'm still attempting to get a good edifying discussion going here. Obviously righteous judgment is interconnected with love, but not as great as loving you neighbor as yourself. But love cannot be void of righteous judgment defined in the law, for it is hanging on the love commandment.
Mark 12:30-31
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
How's that for a new start?
Your post is misogynistic, a victim mentality, and being inconsiderate. Just-me is not being harassed, that is silly. He is being addressed. Once again, it is a forum for discussion. The problem with ignoring others is that it accomplishes nothing towards unity, especially when the person who is ignoring continues to spread what others consider to be false. No resolution can be found.
I think you don't understand where the fault lies. Playing the victim card for sympathy and to further promote what many consider to be legalistic is where the fault comes from. Also, next time you want to speak of me, address me directly. I am not crying about being ignored, I am asking him to act like an adult and to pull his head out of... the sand.
I think you don't understand where the fault lies. Playing the victim card for sympathy and to further promote what many consider to be legalistic is where the fault comes from. Also, next time you want to speak of me, address me directly. I am not crying about being ignored, I am asking him to act like an adult and to pull his head out of... the sand.
Last edited:
You sound like the unwavering Paul after his arrest. Congratulations to Christ our Lord.
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 1 Corinthians 15:10
You didn't have to post. I don't follow you around for the sake of making refuting comments to instigate arguments. People are taking note of this scenario on how arguments are really instigated. Most people in here recognize by now that it's the stalkers who are the ones with the ploy. After all, that's what the hypocritical Pharisees did to Jesus Christ. Same tactics.
Last edited:
ANYWAYS, back to the topic at hand. Why didn't anyone answer my questions?
"So people, what do you think it is about judgement, mercy, and faith that made them "weightier matters of the law?" What does it mean that they are weightier? Do you think Jesus was saying to the hypocritical Pharisees that it was even possible for them to carry out these weightier matters?"
"So people, what do you think it is about judgement, mercy, and faith that made them "weightier matters of the law?" What does it mean that they are weightier? Do you think Jesus was saying to the hypocritical Pharisees that it was even possible for them to carry out these weightier matters?"
So by now, it would be beneficial for all those who would sincerely care to participate in this thread to stop communication with divisive posts by putting those posters on our ignore list so we could edify each other with some semblance of sanity. That way they can complain amongst themselves. Sad thing but necessary. Any takers?
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 2 Timothy 2:23
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17
Back to the OP. Matthew 23:23 has already been addressed on the 1st page. We haven't done much more than that.
I quote.............
This is a type of quiz just for the sake of "investigation edification."
We all know love is the fulfilling of the law of God.
There are three other things in God's law, in addition to the love commandments, that Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees that they missed due to their self righteous smug attitude. Because of missing those things, this was one thing of several that Jesus called them out on, identifying them as hypocrites. (pretenders)
What are those 3 things that Jesus defined (scripture quoting Jesus), and where can we find them in the Old Covenant law that God gave to Israel via Moses?
Spiritual understanding is necessary, and there is more than one way to approach the true answer on this matter.
Please do your best not to derail or cause conflict. I present this strictly for edification sake.
Let us converse in a respectful and peaceful manner as our Almighty God, through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would have us to do.
May God bless us with further understanding of each other, and of God's holy word, as His truth impacts us to the very core of our heart, soul, and mind.
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 2 Timothy 2:23
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17
Back to the OP. Matthew 23:23 has already been addressed on the 1st page. We haven't done much more than that.
I quote.............
This is a type of quiz just for the sake of "investigation edification."
We all know love is the fulfilling of the law of God.
There are three other things in God's law, in addition to the love commandments, that Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees that they missed due to their self righteous smug attitude. Because of missing those things, this was one thing of several that Jesus called them out on, identifying them as hypocrites. (pretenders)
What are those 3 things that Jesus defined (scripture quoting Jesus), and where can we find them in the Old Covenant law that God gave to Israel via Moses?
Spiritual understanding is necessary, and there is more than one way to approach the true answer on this matter.
Please do your best not to derail or cause conflict. I present this strictly for edification sake.
Let us converse in a respectful and peaceful manner as our Almighty God, through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would have us to do.
May God bless us with further understanding of each other, and of God's holy word, as His truth impacts us to the very core of our heart, soul, and mind.
Last edited:
Would a "legalist" as you define him ask you to confess your salvation by the Blood of Jesus Christ? I have ofessed to you hat I am saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ, yet you will not confess His Blood as your salvation, opting instead to label those who believe in obedience of the Most High God as what you have deemed being "under the law."
Now, earlier you asked me "who are you." Are you not being just a little false here? Now I ask,, Who are you?
Now, earlier you asked me "who are you." Are you not being just a little false here? Now I ask,, Who are you?