To comfort those who speak in tongues

[convallaria]

An experience can be not of God. Satan works in this area a lot, with deception. That is why i and others would rather talk Scripture than experience. There also the fact that none of us can verify eachothers experience

Well I think if it is not of God, it is probably an imagined experience, satan being the one who is the father of lies?

However when it is God Himself Who gives you the experience, you know it, there is no denying it, and what follows is increased faith, increased useability, increased communication with the Lord, more powerful ministry, and the kind of love that desires to see people set FREE

 

[convallaria]

amen thank you!

 

[ladylynn]

An experience can be not of God. Satan works in this area a lot, with deception. That is why i and others would rather talk Scripture than experience. There also the fact that none of us can verify eachothers experience

Something to notice here on CC is no matter how many verses we all post they are read in the way each person has learned them or is learning them and then they refute it with another verse and then there are these long posts of people having 'verse fights'. I posted a bunch of verses and people didn't like the way I put them together and many of them were not read anyway. And there were other verses posted by other posters and those posts probably were not read.

The basic issue here is some have experienced tongues and have found the experience totally lacking and wrong. While others have and DO speak in tongues and are blessed. Angela for instance already gave her testimony of how bogus it all is and proceeded to give all the verses with her interpretation. Many of us have already read those verses and interpret them differently than she and others here do.

I was raised in a church like many of you guys here who do not accept the gifts for today. I can appreciate your strong issues and know exactly why you have them since I had the same and vehemently apposed the gifts for today just like many on CC do.

But the facts of what God has shown me goes against your facts. It's not about lack of reading my Bible or being brainwashed by emotions. Angela and I have past each other in the hall sort of speak., She was going out from one place to another and I was going from one place to another. Just like many other Christians here and other places on the planet do each day.

There are tons of godly people on each side of this issue. Not knowing the Bible is not the issue here ., I'm like many here who already know them back and forth. And yet still have come to different conclusions. There comes a time when each of us has to follow what the HolySpirit is teaching us. It gives me a deep appreciation for the verses like - let God be God and every man a liar. Not that people are lying but that God knows best and it is Him we follow not men and their feelings and opinions. Or if we will be disliked or misunderstood so be it that is part of growing and learning.

To respectfully agree to disagree is the mature and Jesus way to relate when we don't agree on something like this. God can handle our differences and eventually so can we. That is when the love of Jesus comes in right!? It's the love of God that constrains us.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Not knowing the Bible is not the issue here ., I'm like many here who already know them back and forth. And yet still have come to different conclusions. There comes a time when each of us has to follow what the HolySpirit is teaching us.

One God, one faith, one Spirit, one baptism. So why are there differing conclusions as to what the Bible teaches? It would my contention that those who arrive at conclusions at odds with most Christian denominations have 1) not heard the Holy Spirit, at all or at least not clearly, and 2) had an "agenda" before them to prove their beliefs before they started out.

I know that's harsh, and you have been most gracious throughout this discussion, one I reluctantly come back to, and probably won't stick around in it to continue. So I ask you to bear with me while I establish what I'm trying to say.

• 1) The rule of DEFINITION: What does the word mean? To understand that, you must go to the original languages. Many don't want to make the effort.
• 2) The rule of USAGE: Who was it written to initially? The understanding of Jews and Greeks as to idioms, their learning approaches, even their cultures and personalities all combined to influence how God addressed them. We need to know why He said something the way He said it. Again, many don't make the effort.
• 3) The rule of CONTEXT: The meaning must be gathered from the context. The Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek languages all had differing approaches to sentence and paragraph structure to establish context. If we don't grasp the context, we don't understand God's word.
• 4) The rule of HISTORICAL BACKGROUND: The interpreter must have some awareness of the life and society of the times in which the Scripture was written.
• 5) The rule of LOGIC: Interpretation is merely logical reasoning. When interpreting Scripture, the use of reason is everywhere to be assumed. If the reason for writing is not assumed, the reader will miss the point.
• 6) The rule of INFERENCE: An inference is a fact reasonably implied from another fact. It is a logical consequence. It derives a conclusion from a given fact or premise. It is the deduction of one proposition from another proposition.
• 7) The rule of GENRE JUDGMENT: A "literal" approach to Scripture recognizes that the Bible contains a variety of literary genres, each of which has certain peculiar characteristics that must be recognized in order to interpret the text properly.
• 8) The rule of dependence upon the HOLY SPIRIT: Scripture tells us that we are to rely on the Holy Spirit's illumination to gain insights into the meaning and application of Scripture (John 16:12-15, 1 Corinthians 2:9-11). It is the Holy Spirit's work to throw light upon the Word of God so that the believer can assent to the meaning intended and act on it. But he ministry of the Holy Spirit in interpretation does not mean interpreters can ignore common sense and logic. Since the Holy Spirit is "the Spirit of truth" (John 14:17; 15:26; 16:13). He does not teach concepts that fail to meet the tests of truth. In other words, "the Holy Spirit doesn’t guide into interpretations that contradict each other or fail to have logical, internal consistency."

Those who fail to agree with the majority of believers on key teachings of the Bible have failed to hear the Holy Spirit, and equally importantly have failed to follow those interpretive rules. This is not an indictment of those who don't agree as being inferior, "unsmart," or poor scholars or believers. It is merely a statement that, in zealousness sometimes come error, and we must be careful to avoid it. God bless.

 

[ember]

I think it is more to do with the ability to DISTINGUISH between abuse of... and NOT OF.... the HS. Some people say... it's all of the devil or they cannot be confident in discerning so there fore DISMISS ALL....JMO.

I may be called boring at this point, but we are warned over and over about deception...from Genesis right through

I was not being very discerning in this thread and I think I have paid for it

another lesson learned

 

[ember]

Something to notice here on CC is no matter how many verses we all post they are read in the way each person has learned them or is learning them and then they refute it with another verse and then there are these long posts of people having 'verse fights'. I posted a bunch of verses and people didn't like the way I put them together and many of them were not read anyway. And there were other verses posted by other posters and those posts probably were not read.

The basic issue here is some have experienced tongues and have found the experience totally lacking and wrong. While others have and DO speak in tongues and are blessed. Angela for instance already gave her testimony of how bogus it all is and proceeded to give all the verses with her interpretation. Many of us have already read those verses and interpret them differently than she and others here do.

I was raised in a church like many of you guys here who do not accept the gifts for today. I can appreciate your strong issues and know exactly why you have them since I had the same and vehemently apposed the gifts for today just like many on CC do.

But the facts of what God has shown me goes against your facts. It's not about lack of reading my Bible or being brainwashed by emotions. Angela and I have past each other in the hall sort of speak., She was going out from one place to another and I was going from one place to another. Just like many other Christians here and other places on the planet do each day.

There are tons of godly people on each side of this issue. Not knowing the Bible is not the issue here ., I'm like many here who already know them back and forth. And yet still have come to different conclusions. There comes a time when each of us has to follow what the HolySpirit is teaching us. It gives me a deep appreciation for the verses like - let God be God and every man a liar. Not that people are lying but that God knows best and it is Him we follow not men and their feelings and opinions. Or if we will be disliked or misunderstood so be it that is part of growing and learning.

To respectfully agree to disagree is the mature and Jesus way to relate when we don't agree on something like this. God can handle our differences and eventually so can we. That is when the love of Jesus comes in right!? It's the love of God that constrains us.

I was raised in a church like yours Lynn and I have mentionned that since I began posting here...one of the first threads I participated in was a thread on tongues...and nothing has changed

I feel like we have been bushwhacked here with regards to teaching rather than discussing and I don't care for guile or padded truth in any form and the denial thereof, when it has been undeniably discovered, only makes things worse

I've really had my eyes opened again and I am taking that as a lesson from God...not everyone is who they say they are and sometimes that includes those who claim the highest office

Even God allows questions and even God puts up with our disagreements...but these teacher/prophets are above it all

I have always been of the mind that I do not care if someone wants to speak in tongues or not. I used to...but I don't see things that way anymore.

However, the desire to totally eliminate even the possibility this might be real? That does make me wonder

At any rate, it's really not my decision and I don't draw people nor do I convince them otherwise

 

[ladylynn]

I was raised in a church like yours Lynn and I have mentionned that since I began posting here...one of the first threads I participated in was a thread on tongues...and nothing has changed

I feel like we have been bushwhacked here with regards to teaching rather than discussing and I don't care for guile or padded truth in any form and the denial thereof, when it has been undeniably discovered, only makes things worse

I've really had my eyes opened again and I am taking that as a lesson from God...not everyone is who they say they are and sometimes that includes those who claim the highest office

Even God allows questions and even God puts up with our disagreements...but these teacher/prophets are above it all

I have always been of the mind that I do not care if someone wants to speak in tongues or not. I used to...but I don't see things that way anymore.

However, the desire to totally eliminate even the possibility this might be real? That does make me wonder

At any rate, it's really not my decision and I don't draw people nor do I convince them otherwise

Your right., it's not our calling to convince anyone of anything. It is a no where to go discussion thread here. Finding a church fellowship where the Bible is preached and believers are able to worship together freely 'without' people speculating if your in the flesh or in the spirit is essential. Like we have read many times, iron sharpens iron. But arguing dulls us and causes the worst part of us to come out.

I agree with what you said here in your post, you are very wise. Blessings Sis!!

 

[ember]

Your right., it's not our calling to convince anyone of anything. It is a no where to go discussion thread here. Finding a church fellowship where the Bible is preached and believers are able to worship together freely 'without' people speculating if your in the flesh or in the spirit is essential. Like we have read many times, iron sharpens iron. But arguing dulls us and causes the worst part of us to come out.

I agree with what you said here in your post, you are very wise. Blessings Sis!!

Frankly, I believe the biggest threat in the world today is deception

and we need to remember that the devil comes as an angel of light...the deception will appear to be good, but it will be darkness

it will be hard on both those who are deceived and on those who face that deception and try to shed light on it

I could say more, but it would probably serve no purpose here other than to create more dialogue that is unfruitful...as you say

no true teacher or prophet of God will ever condemn....teachers teach and prophets, speak for God from His word...to warn, to exhort and to bring to ears that are hard of hearing, what they will not hear from the mountain themselves

God is merciful and longsuffering...He is still waiting for whosoever will come..

 

[convallaria]

Frankly, I believe the biggest threat in the world today is deception

and we need to remember that the devil comes as an angel of light...the deception will appear to be good, but it will be darkness

it will be hard on both those who are deceived and on those who face that deception and try to shed light on it

I could say more, but it would probably serve no purpose here other than to create more dialogue that is unfruitful...as you say

no true teacher or prophet of God will ever condemn....teachers teach and prophets, speak for God from His word...to warn, to exhort and to bring to ears that are hard of hearing, what they will not hear from the mountain themselves

God is merciful and longsuffering...He is still waiting for whosoever will come..

Time to start practising what you preach ember

 

[KennethC]

It's impossible to get saved/born again and not have the HolySpirit at the time of regeneration. You guys don't read my looooooooooong posts. When we get saved we get sealed by that HolySpirit of promise. Back in 1982 I was born again and could see because of the HolySpirit's work. At salvation we automatically get the HS and He begins to show us the truths in the Bible and we have a deep desire to know all we can about Jesus and what the Bible says about everything. Deep desire to be in church and around those who know Jesus and talk about Him and worship Him. Wanted to learn all I could with the saints and put myself under the teaching of the church and Bible studies and fellowship. Was baptized after a few weeks of intense classes and accepted in the fellowship, and joined the church given the right hand of fellowship upon my confession in front of the congregation.

Just this year 2015, I received the Baptism of the HolySpirit and began speaking in tongues. The 2 experiences were very different.

I did read your posts and let me show you again where you are going wrong in your understanding !!!

The two sentences I put in bold and underlined contradict one another by God's word.

You could not have been born again and received the Holy Spirit back in 1982 if you did not receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit tell this year (2015).

What you received this year was only the gift of speaking in tongues from the Holy Spirit, not the baptism as that is what happened back in 1982 when you were sealed. The baptizing of the Holy Spirit is what seals, because that is when you received the Holy Spirit and now you were given the gift(fire) of tongues.

When it says "of the Holy Spirit and of fire" that is not a separate baptisms, the first is the baptism and the second (fire) is the receiving of His gifts !!!

 

[wattie]

I was raised in a church like yours Lynn and I have mentionned that since I began posting here...one of the first threads I participated in was a thread on tongues...and nothing has changed

I feel like we have been bushwhacked here with regards to teaching rather than discussing and I don't care for guile or padded truth in any form and the denial thereof, when it has been undeniably discovered, only makes things worse

I've really had my eyes opened again and I am taking that as a lesson from God...not everyone is who they say they are and sometimes that includes those who claim the highest office

Even God allows questions and even God puts up with our disagreements...but these teacher/prophets are above it all

I have always been of the mind that I do not care if someone wants to speak in tongues or not. I used to...but I don't see things that way anymore.

However, the desire to totally eliminate even the possibility this might be real? That does make me wonder

At any rate, it's really not my decision and I don't draw people nor do I convince them otherwise

The desire i have to see especially the sign gifts as not real for today is the conviction that nothing but the completed bible fits 1 Corinthians 13 as the 'perfect (mature, complete) thing'

This passage does not say the gifts won't cease, its just a matter of when, not if, and it has been nearly 2000 years since Paul wrote they would cease.

He was also particularly writing to the Corinthian church- not to us now.

I am sure u know this already that just because something is in the NT doesnt mean it is for us now unless there is no limit of time placed on it.

People dont 'greet eachother with a kiss' in Gods churches anymore as rule.

In the OT God promised never to flood the world again.

The system of sacrificing animals to please God is no longer in effect etc..

So my denial that tongues and prophecy and knowledge as a supernatural gift is not that it never happened in the first place but that these gifts have done their job.

Someone may share the gospel to an unbeliever in the unbelievers own language now. This isnt the 'gift of tongues'. The only way it would be was if the person sharing didnt know the language. If I saw this happening as the bible has it- then i would have to review what paul meant in 1corinthians.

But the fact is in all the Pentecostal and charismatic assemblies i have been to see.... NONE have abided by the biblical standards for practicing yhe gifts.

 

[ember]

Hi Wattie...I'll get back to you on this tomorrow if I can

not ignoring you...thanks

 

[ladylynn]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.All believers will do the same works that Jesus did; it’s not limited to ministers. There’s just a shortage of believing believers.How do you get to the place where you can see the miraculous happen in and through you? It starts with the renewing of your mind. Faith is based on knowledge, and everything we need to know to be a victorious Christian is explained in God’s Word. That’s what the Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 1:3-4:“According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”



I agree with this writer. The issue is there is just a shortage of "believing Believers"

 

[RussellJBenigno]

I find it interesting that there are two types of gods present. One God is very powerful. Speaks to His people, Works miracles, Casts out demons, Heals the sick, Raises the dead, has Apostles, Prophets, Pastors Teachers and Evangelist and His people have been given gifts of power to help publish their powerful Gospel of Deliverance. The devil to them can't compete with God and has diminished power in the presence of their God.

The other god has no power and lives in a book of paper and ink, does not speak to his people, can't do miracles, is powerless against demons, can't heal the sick, can't raise the dead, has no Apostles, Prophets, Pastor, Teachers and has no people who have gifts of power to proclaim their powerless gospel of nothingness. The devil to them has great power to do miraculous things greater than their god can do.

How pathetic!

 

[RickyZ]

He was also particularly writing to the Corinthian church- not to us now.

As always, I suggest that every time you come across a page in the Bible that you don't think applies to you rip it out. Then after a year, take a good hard look at how much of God's word you have dismissed.

 

[wattie]

I find it interesting that there are two types of gods present. One God is very powerful. Speaks to His people, Works miracles, Casts out demons, Heals the sick, Raises the dead, has Apostles, Prophets, Pastors Teachers and Evangelist and His people have been given gifts of power to help publish their powerful Gospel of Deliverance. The devil to them can't compete with God and has diminished power in the presence of their God.

The other god has no power and lives in a book of paper and ink, does not speak to his people, can't do miracles, is powerless against demons, can't heal the sick, can't raise the dead, has no Apostles, Prophets, Pastor, Teachers and has no people who have gifts of power to proclaim their powerless gospel of nothingness. The devil to them has great power to do miraculous things greater than their god can do.

How pathetic!

Its not about what God can and cant do but how he works with peopke in different ages with different means. God CAN perform miracles, raise dead etc.. Its just a matter of why He would when we have our manual for the faith now in the Bible and we dont need the sensational

 

[RickyZ]

I find it interesting that there are two types of gods present. One God is very powerful. Speaks to His people, Works miracles, Casts out demons, Heals the sick, Raises the dead, has Apostles, Prophets, Pastors Teachers and Evangelist and His people have been given gifts of power to help publish their powerful Gospel of Deliverance. The devil to them can't compete with God and has diminished power in the presence of their God.

The other god has no power and lives in a book of paper and ink, does not speak to his people, can't do miracles, is powerless against demons, can't heal the sick, can't raise the dead, has no Apostles, Prophets, Pastor, Teachers and has no people who have gifts of power to proclaim their powerless gospel of nothingness. The devil to them has great power to do miraculous things greater than their god can do.

How pathetic!

Amen

If I might adjust your words, I wouldn't say that many in the second group don't think God can't do all those things, they think He just doesn't care to any more. I mean, He wrote His book, He's made His point, why waste His time healing the sick or giving knowledge any more?

Now suffer in unpowered silence until Christ returns!

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Its not about what God can and cant do but how he works with peopke in different ages with different means. God CAN perform miracles, raise dead etc.. Its just a matter of why He would when we have our manual for the faith now in the Bible and we dont need the sensational

Just say it! God can, but not your god can.

 

[convallaria]

I find it interesting that there are two types of gods present. One God is very powerful. Speaks to His people, Works miracles, Casts out demons, Heals the sick, Raises the dead, has Apostles, Prophets, Pastors Teachers and Evangelist and His people have been given gifts of power to help publish their powerful Gospel of Deliverance. The devil to them can't compete with God and has diminished power in the presence of their God.

The other god has no power and lives in a book of paper and ink, does not speak to his people, can't do miracles, is powerless against demons, can't heal the sick, can't raise the dead, has no Apostles, Prophets, Pastor, Teachers and has no people who have gifts of power to proclaim their powerless gospel of nothingness. The devil to them has great power to do miraculous things greater than their god can do.

How pathetic!

Amen Russell well said.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Amen

If I might adjust your words, I wouldn't say that many in the second group don't think God can't do all those things, they think He just doesn't care to any more. I mean, He wrote His book, He's made His point, why waste His time healing the sick or giving knowledge any more?

Now suffer in unpowered silence until Christ returns!

They have fallen for a lie that this lesser god is some how the God of the bible. The God of the bible is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He has not stopped being God, that God who sent His Word and Healed them. He cannot change, He will not change and He will do what He has always done for His people and will let the powerless suffer in silence. They will suffer, because they turn their back to Him least they should see and hear and be healed.