Trinity vs. Oneness

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Are you Trinitarian, or Sabellian (Oneness, usually, Oneness Pentecostal)?

  • Trinitarian

    Votes: 45 77.6%
  • Sabellion

    Votes: 6 10.3%
  • What's the difference?

    Votes: 7 12.1%

  • Total voters
    58
S

Scotth1960

Guest
Trinity vs. Oneness, why or why not?

For my position, refer to page 3 of the 'YHVH + Jesus + Holy Spirit' discussion: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/13953-yhvh-jesus-holy-spirit-3.html

GOD BLESS YOU GRACEBEUNTOYOU. WE SHOULD BELIEVE IN THE HOLY TRINITY BECAUSE MATTHEW 28:19 AND GENESIS 1:26 AND MANY OTHER VERSES OF THE BIBLE TEACH THAT GOD IS THREE PERSONS IN ONE GOD. THE HOLY TRINITY. AMEN. GLORY TO THE FATHER AND TO THE SON AND TO THE HOLY SPIRIT NOW AND EVER AND UNTO THE AGES OF AGES; AMEN. COME, LORD JESUS. TAKE CARE. IN ERIE PA SCOTT R. HARRINGTON
 
A

Amesph7

Guest
I believe in the Trinity. There is God the Father who sent Jesus, God the Son, in the form of man. And the Holy Spirit conceived in Mary. Or however you would say it. It even says in the Bible when Jesus was being crucified, that God the Father in heaven turned His back on His son on earth because of the sin. Which means there is 2 right there. And when Jesus was conceived, God the Father said the Holy Spirit was who did so.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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I am Oneness but not Sabellionist, they are not the same thing
 
Jul 12, 2012
933
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In ancient Jewish thinking, when a man marries a woman, they become "one flesh".
The woman, by name, is an external attribute that the man adds to himself.
Sons, by name, are various attributes manifested from himself.
Daughters, by name, are various attributes of the man, manifested from himself, which are to be given away to worthy men, for them to become one flesh with.
Others who are made a part of the household, servants, concubines, etc, by name, are added, but are not made one with, nor do they come from. They live in the "house", and work in the "field", both of which represent the man in question as a whole, in certain different ways.
All family members are a part of the father in question, and all are still individuals with critically important names, and roles.

I stress, critically important names. Knowing what the names mean and inserting them while reading scripture is of the utmost importance. If you don't know that Jacob "struggles with flesh" and Israel "struggles with God", you miss the meat of the story.

So when Jacob fathered those 12 sons, he manifested by name, those 12 attributes of himself.
When we read about Isaac and Ishmael, we are still reading about "Abraham."
When we read about Esau and Jacob, we are still reading about "Isaac."
When we read about Reuben ... Benjamin, we are still reading about "Jacob."
YHWH only manifested one attribute from Himself, "Salvation."
This is why it's important that Y'Shua is the "only begotten Son."
When we see Abraham and Isaac, we see Isaac as an attribute of Abraham, but each remain their own individual.
It's hard to put this into words better than the bible already displays. The key is being able to look for it in the first place, which we have not been taught to do.

As stated carefully above, and in scripture, Y'Shua is not "God", YHWH is His God.
Even though He said "Before Abraham was, I AM", He never said He is God.
When your wife gives birth to your son, he becomes flesh and dwells among you. But he is not you.
He represents you.
He was always in the Father, as "seed", just not yet fully manifested until a certain day.
God as a physical man on earth is what the pagan religions before (and to this day) say. In and long before Y'Shua's day, it was considered blasphemy to do so (re: pharoah et. al.), and that's why the pharisees were eager to accuse Him of that claim, with partial understanding of the concept, but improper understanding of who He is and how He claimed to be.

"Then he brought me to the door of the gate of YHWH's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz." <-in essence, modern christianity on Christ and the trinity.

It's a valid concept. We just haven't been taught how to understand it, and therefore we errantly worship:

Christ as "God"
instead of
"Christ" as God.

And we errantly acknowledge Jesus, instead of YHWH through Jesus.

I don't think it can be explained by simply saying that they are 3 creatures, or 1 creature.
If you become like Christ, do you become God? Nope.
If you become like Christ, are you in the Father and the Father in you? Yep.

It should be a dish on the back burner, and served as desert, only when it's finished cooking.
The main course we should be baking is "Repent, for the kingdom of Elohim is at hand."

Again: "Then he brought me to the door of the gate of YHWH's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz."
Nimrod "miraculously fathered himself" as Tammuz, through his wife, then all three were called "god"
If we insist on pursuing this puzzle, we must be careful what we insist to others is the conclusion.

Mary's miraculous pregnancy has been turned into the above story.
When it is intended to represent something more in line with Jewish family thinking.

Hope this helps someone who is struggling with the "trinity" concept.
 
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A

Ali22

Guest
Using the votes 80, 10, and 14 for options 1-3, respectively, a chi-square analysis for goodness of fit shown that these results are statistically significant even on a 1% alpha.
 
Jul 12, 2012
933
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Using the votes 80, 10, and 14 for options 1-3, respectively, a chi-square analysis for goodness of fit shown that these results are statistically significant even on a 1% alpha.
and I'll be the first to say: "point taken" :p
 
Dec 19, 2009
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I believe in one God who simultaneously is a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as a man can simultaneously be a father, son, and husband.
 
O

OFM

Guest
john 11-14 1st John 5:9-13 it is the HOLY BLESSED TRINITY 3 In 1 and 1 in 3
Jesus=God
Holy Spirit=God
God Our Heavenly Father =God.
 
J

Johnboy55

Guest
Why is it that in every one of Paul's introductions to every Epistle he always writes God the Father & Lord Jesus Christ. Never once does he include the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit were a person, don't you think Paul would have also included him? The definition of the Trinity was established at the council of Nicene. Three persons in one God. Wrong on many levels, that's why you can't find it in the Bible. First saying that God is a person is bringing him down to our level, nice subtle trick of Satan. Jesus, definitely a person. The Holy Spirit, the name itself declares it can't be a person. It is the spirit of God used to deal with mankind. The Father is the Father. The son is the Son & the Holy spirit is the Spirit of God to deal with man. Neither the Trinity or oneness is correct according to God's word. It is once again Satan doing what he does best. Deceiving even the elect!!!

P.S. I do believe in the Father, The Son & The Holy Spirit. Just not man's definition of the 3.
 
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ForeverHis42

Guest
i dont think it really matters. God is Gosd, the ultimate power. so does it really matter what we think he is? i think that the question of who he is will be answered by him in heaven when we get there. another biblical question better left unanswered for Him to tell, in my opinion.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
i dont think it really matters. God is Gosd, the ultimate power. so does it really matter what we think he is? i think that the question of who he is will be answered by him in heaven when we get there. another biblical question better left unanswered for Him to tell, in my opinion.
Firstly, it isn't about what we think he is, it's about what he has told us of himself.

There are many who preach false doctrine, the reason you should care about this fact is that it is intended to make people like you and me, to walk away from God into their deception.

The doctrine of the Trinity is very essential. To reject the trinity is to accept heresy.
 

clarkthompson

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2012
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I am in the middle I believe that Jesus has been seperate fom God and been the Son who is still God but only from his birth and the Spirit has been seperate since creation all the persons of God I believe will be One as the eaarth and heaven will be one at the end of time and enternity begins unless I explain how I believe different people think I beileve the trinty teaching but I beileve Jesus is the same as the Father the Son refer to Jesus' role as messiah and when the bible says the Son it most of the time points to the cross the Spirit lives in the church both the people and place of worship but the Spirit is God and not a different god but God the One we are to worship Jesus
 
May 14, 2014
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The origin of Trinity doctrine came from the early false christians. If we search deeply the true history, the Council of Nicea that flourished/formulated Trinity doctrine were only attended by false christians who collaborate with the Emperor of Rome, even the christian bishop of Rome during that time did not attend the said Council. Same Council that formulated a laws of hatred against the Jews. Only false Christians who heed the call of Emperor Constantine for reconciliation by an order of his Edict of Milan, while the true Christians were continue hiding together with the Christian Jews who were baptized in Jesus name. Trinity doctrine cannot be trusted, formulated by false christians go in hand as anti-semitism since from the past.
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
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Now the problem is and has been man all along when they try to define God but great is the mystery of Godliness as we are but mere clay so in this there will be great controversy if we look at zachariah 14 :5-9 we see the LORD God as Jesus but even look at 1peter 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. This is great at pointing there is one God but chose to reveal himself as the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost but they are but one God and in Jesus is the complete Godhead
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Well, technically one could object to the title of the thread:

"[h=2]Trinity vs. Oneness"[/h]
For God is One in nature, but has 3 persons/egos.

Anyone interested in this topic, should find plenty on the internet, as modalism (modal trinity) is a classical heresy.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
This discussion seems to keep resurrecting itself. No pun intended.

In answer to your question why or why not let me preface my remarks with the a statement about our atonement. In my opinion, MAN had to die for his sin from the beginning for the sake of the divine consistency of God's curse but in death alone there was no hope since in men their is no source of the "infinite atonement." Only God could atone infinitely for a creature's sin against HIS infinite nature, so that thereafter in holiness/perfection/consistency God had the right to eternally forgive whom he wills to forgive without harm to his divinity and glorifying his great condescension and goodness.

Therefore the mystic union of God/Man in Christ Jesus died on the cross for my sins. The Father in Heaven overseeing.

From all my reading and discussions: Oneness theology cannot and will not say that God died on the cross. In part or in whole this is because they cannot have the "whole" of God in one entity on the cross dying.

In my understanding of the trinity, we can not say that God the Son died on the cross. No person of the Godhood can die. ONLY, the man Christ Jesus died on the cross. Jesus' death is accepted as all sufficient by the Godhood, but it was not an "infinite" sacrifice. And Jesus' death alone, by itself, did not "save" anyone, it only made man savable by God's grace applying the death of Jesus to us individually. Reconciliation is only for those who receive Jesus. The death of Christ,for the whole world, appeases the wrath of God only temporary; for the elect of God, the death of Christ will be made effectual, by God's powerful "calling" us to salvation. Eternal death in Adam is only potential, for "all"; and the eternal life in Christ is only potential for "all". in Romans 5, only the "many" in Adam will be lost and only the "many" in Christ will be saved. Love to all , Hoffco
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Firstly, it isn't about what we think he is, it's about what he has told us of himself.

There are many who preach false doctrine, the reason you should care about this fact is that it is intended to make people like you and me, to walk away from God into their deception.

The doctrine of the Trinity is very essential. To reject the trinity is to accept heresy.
The trinity is a man made doctrine....Jesus never taught that
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
I don't know why so many people have a problem with this concept, unless they are thinking in physical terms. It is simply unity- being of one mind and purpose. If you accept the Father but believe that the Son is not important, you cannot go to heaven. If you accept the Son but grieve the Holy Spirit you cannot go to heaven. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit will not be separated- They are one. If you try to separate an egg shell, and egg white, and an egg yolk, the DNA so-to-speak will all say "egg". God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all Deity. Jesus says if you've seen Him you've seen the Father. In Revelation John bowed down to worship the angel who spoke to him, but the angel corrected him and instructed him to only worship God. But in Matthew 28:17, when some apostles worshiped Jesus, Jesus did not correct them. Why? Because they weren't wrong. Though some doubted. Doubted what? That Jesus is God (Deity). In Genesis 1:26 it says "Let US make man in OUR image." Who is the "Us"? Is it God and angels? No. Well how do I know? I know because the very next verse says both male and female were made in the image of God. It did NOT say they were made in the image of God and angels. Therefore, according to Genesis 1:26 the one God of the bible is plural. God the Father Himself calls Jesus "God" in Hebrews 1:19 (Therefore God your God has...). Again in John 1:1 "IN the beginning was the Word and the Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God." And we know because of John 1:14 that this person Who is the Word is speaking of Jesus. So how can you be WITH God and be God at the same time? Simply- God is plural (more than one person). God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit form the one God of the bible- just as an egg white, and egg yolk, and an egg shell form one egg.