Trinity?

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Nov 19, 2012
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Now you know that I do not have time to answer every point you make in your post.
But let me choose one to answer as a representative of your poor scholarship.
The Malek Elohim ‘The Messenger of God’ (Gen 21.17; 31.11)

Genesis 21:17
God heard the lad crying; and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, “What is the matter with you, Hagar? Do not fear, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is.

Genesis 31:11
Then the angel of God said to me in the dream, ‘Jacob,’ and I said, ‘Here I am.’

Are you saying that Jesus is an angel? If one of Jehovah's witnesses made that claim you would be all over him saying "Jesus is not an Angel."
Hebrews 1:5
For to which of the angels did He ever say,“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?

It term is 'Malek' in the original languages...and YES, it refers to The Second Person of The Trinity...

Stephen stated that the Malek in the burning bush, WHO SPOKE TO MOSES, was both Lord and God (Act 7.30 – 33, 35, 38).

Gnaw on that...

 
Dec 27, 2014
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I got to go for today.
My wife is calling me. We are invited to a party at our neighbors.
See you soon.

Ebal
 
Nov 19, 2012
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When Israel was in slavery to Pharoah for 400 years they did not know YHWH.
But he proved to them who he is by freeing them from slavery.
From the hip, again....or do you have support scripture....?
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
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Well hello!
All you Christians out there I want YOUR opinion!

I have studied this doctrine defined as the Trinity, and I tend to see a lot of issues with it. So I am just curious is someone that actually knows anything about it. (Not what you have always been taught, But what you have Studied) Would give me a brief but intellectual standpoint on it, in hopes of a discussion. What is the Trinity in your own words? And from a biblical point of view Why do you believe it?
my belief on this, can be found by reading this article called Trinity. What is God to do with this generation?

^i^
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Re:The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY

*
Until we see that HE is ONE GOD & LORD, we'll never Reverence Him as He is Worthy to be Reverenced.



Rev 1:8 ~ I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the 'Almighty'.

Exo 6:3 And I 'appeared' unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God 'Almighty' ....

Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am He.

Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last.

I Am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.....
And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and His eyes were as a flame of fire; And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and His voice as the sound of many waters.
And He had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword and His countenance was as the sun shineth in His strength.
And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead.
And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the First and the Last:
I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
~
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and he had a Name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God...
And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

[above Rev 1& 19]

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Isa 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, He that created the heavens, and stretched them out; He that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is My Name: and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images.


Isa 48:16,17 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.


Psalm 139:7 Whither shall I go from Thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from Thy presence?


Joh 14:7-9 If ye had known Me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know Him, and have seen Him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.



Eph 1:9-10 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him


Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with His own blood.

~

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, Thou art our Father; we are the clay, and Thou our potter; and we all are the work of Thy hand.

Jer 3:4 Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My Father, Thou art the guide of my youth?

2Co 6:18 And I will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be My son.


 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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Well hello!
All you Christians out there I want YOUR opinion!

I have studied this doctrine defined as the Trinity, and I tend to see a lot of issues with it. So I am just curious is someone that actually knows anything about it. (Not what you have always been taught, But what you have Studied) Would give me a brief but intellectual standpoint on it, in hopes of a discussion. What is the Trinity in your own words? And from a biblical point of view Why do you believe it?
my belief on this, can be found by reading this article called Trinity. What is God to do with this generation?

^i^
t<><


First of all, the Trinity is NOT understood intellectually, but spiritually.

IF you are not Born Again, you are not equipped to understand it, and therefore any discussion would be fruitless.

Born Again, is when the Holy Spirit Himself comes into your heart (John 14:17, Acts 7:51, Acts 15:8),

Where HE pours the LOVE of GOD out in our hearts, (Rom. 5:5).

At the same time, the Holy Spirit brings our human spirit to Eternal Life (born again) which was dead because of the inherited sin nature (Eph 2:5, Col. 2:13, John 3:36); and simultaneously the Holy Spirit immerses us into the Spiritual Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:130).

The one who does not have the kind of faith that moves him to totally surrender to Christ willing as LORD, which means Master; is not born again (John 3:36, John 5:24), thus his human spirit and it's spiritual mind is not eternally alive yet;

AND it is with that eternally alive spiritual mind, that you understand deep spiritual truths of GOD, such as the Holy Trinity; which the human fleshly mind between our ears can never understand those deep spirititual truths about GOD, without the human spirit first becoming eternally alive:

1 Corinthians 2:1-16 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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The trinity doctrine limits God to a finite number of manifestations. Is the creator of the universe limited to a man made doctrine? Let this never be!
If you believe as you are saying, then you can't possibly believe the Word of God and what it says and teaches.
No man has seen the Father at any time, yet we have seen Jesus
The Father is a Spirit, Jesus is flesh and even now in His Glorified Flesh.
The Father is INVISIBLE, Jesus is not invisible.
According to Jesus, all that He knew and taught, and the miracles that He performed, came from His Father and NOT Himself.
Jesus and His Father are ONE. So are we. WE are ONE with them.
You want to see all the Scriptures which PROVE what you believe is inaccurate? Or merely continue believing as you do in error? Then read these two articles.

The Trinity
Is Jesus the Father?
 
Jul 25, 2013
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In the beginning was the word. Prior to the KJV the "word" was not capitalized because the "word" was believed to be the spoken word of God, as in "Let there be light"
The "word" was also indicated by the impersonal "it" rather than "him"

1:1
In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word.

1:2The same was in the beginning with god.

1:3
All things were made by it, and without it, was made no thing, that made was

W Tyndale Bible

THE NEW TESTAMENT (Tyndale, Rogers, Coverdale, Cranmer) : John


You can see that "word" is not capitalized and it says "it" rather than "he" when referring to the "word."
Tyndale believed that the "word" referred to the utterance of God, [Let there be Light ...for example] rather than a person. The "word" metaphorically became flesh in the person of Jesus who became God's spokesman.
I take it you have read or heard the scripture where David says, The LORD said to my Lord?
He, the LORD wasn't talking to Himself. There is God a title given to Father and Son whom are Spirit.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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In the beginning was the word. Prior to the KJV the "word" was not capitalized because the "word" was believed to be the spoken word of God, as in "Let there be light"
The "word" was also indicated by the impersonal "it" rather than "him"

1:1
In the beginning was that word, and that word was with god: and god was that word.

1:2The same was in the beginning with god.

1:3
All things were made by it, and without it, was made no thing, that made was

W Tyndale Bible

THE NEW TESTAMENT (Tyndale, Rogers, Coverdale, Cranmer) : John


You can see that "word" is not capitalized and it says "it" rather than "he" when referring to the "word."
Tyndale believed that the "word" referred to the utterance of God, [Let there be Light ...for example] rather than a person. The "word" metaphorically became flesh in the person of Jesus who became God's spokesman.
That does not change the essence if what is being said....if God was that word then they are calling God an it...unless one is reading every verse disconnected...because later down it states ...the word was made flesh....and later ...we beheld his glory as the son of God...
 
Dec 27, 2014
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That does not change the essence if what is being said....if God was that word then they are calling God an it...unless one is reading every verse disconnected...because later down it states ...the word was made flesh....and later ...we beheld his glory as the son of God...
John's Gospel Shows Strong Evidence of being Edited.

Let me show you an example.

John 20:30-31
30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

This was the original ending of John's Gospel.
But there is another chapter in John's Gospel....chapter 21.

John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.

This is the ending that we have now in our Bibles for John's Gospel.

This is proof positive that John's Gospel was edited and this makes it unreliable as Scripture.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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John's Gospel Shows Strong Evidence of being Edited.

Let me show you an example.

John 20:30-31
30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

This was the original ending of John's Gospel.
But there is another chapter in John's Gospel....chapter 21.

John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.

This is the ending that we have now in our Bibles for John's Gospel.

This is proof positive that John's Gospel was edited and this makes it unreliable as Scripture.
And I suppose your vast background in biblical languages and ancient manuscripts qualifies you to make such a determination.
 
Dec 27, 2014
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I take it you have read or heard the scripture where David says, The LORD said to my Lord?
He, the LORD wasn't talking to Himself. There is God a title given to Father and Son whom are Spirit.
Psalm 110:1
A Psalm of David.
1 The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”

Can we be sure that this Psalm affirms the Deity of Jesus? I say NO!
I did some thinking about this and I am positive that Psalm does not affirm the Deity of Jesus.

The two "Lords" are different. The first "LORD" all in capital letters in English is a substitution for the tetragramaton, the Divine name of God.
The second "Lord" is a word meaning lord, master, or owner.
If we were to accept the Trinitarian view that the meaning was that God the father was speaking to Jesus, God the son, why would there be two different lord identifications? If Jesus is God, why wouldn't he be called by "LORD" the tetragramaton, just as God the father is called by LORD, the tetragramaton? Aren't all the persons in the Trinity equal? Why is the second Lord referred to as a lesser being?

The LORD says to my Lord: ........Does it make sense for God to speak to God? It makes sense for God to speak to a human.

“Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” ......if the Father and Son are God then they do not need to regard each other as companions nor do they need each other’s help.

While Psalms is generally attributed to David, not every one was written by him. Apparently, he had a group of singers/ psalmists who occasionally wrote Psalms too. It may be that this Psalm was written by David for the Levites to recite about him (or by a court poet about David).

With this in mind, there are two possible explanations:
1) The psalmist praises David by comparing him to Melchizedek of the Abraham story.

2) The psalmist praises David for being a righteous king (literal translation of Melchizedek), who is dedicated to God as the priests were in the Temple.
 
Dec 27, 2014
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And I suppose your vast background in biblical languages and ancient manuscripts qualifies you to make such a determination.
[h=3]Why This Gospel Was Written[/h][SUP]30 [/SUP]Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; [SUP]31 [/SUP]but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Had the author of John's Gospel wanted to prove Jesus is God he would have said so.
But he only wrote to prove Jesus is the Messiah.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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Why This Gospel Was Written

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; [SUP]31 [/SUP]but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Had the author of John's Gospel wanted to prove Jesus is God he would have said so.
But he only wrote to prove Jesus is the Messiah.
Well, since you brought up John 1:1 earlier would you mind providing us with a grammatical exegesis of that verse to demonstrate how that verse proves that Jesus is not God? I am sure we would all be interested.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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John's Gospel Shows Strong Evidence of being Edited.

Let me show you an example.

John 20:30-31
30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

This was the original ending of John's Gospel.
But there is another chapter in John's Gospel....chapter 21.

John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they *were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself *would not contain the books that *would be written.

This is the ending that we have now in our Bibles for John's Gospel.

This is proof positive that John's Gospel was edited and this makes it unreliable as Scripture.
that is not proof of edit...it is proof of truth....He said there was more things to be told and he did tell some more...I have seen it here on CC with a simple post where people end their post and put in PS...it is much easier than doing over the whole thing....
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
If Christ was not God, then your sins are not forgiven and you won't be resurrected onto eternal life.

You'll find this in the O.T. as well.
 
C

ChristIsGod

Guest
Jesus is God

Compiled by R. A. Torrey ~

Christ Is God As Jehovah
Isa_40:3; Mat_3:3;

As Jehovah of glory
Psa_24:7; Psa_24:10; 1Co_2:8; Jam_2:1;

As Jehovah, our RIGHTEOUSNESS
Jer_23:5; Jer_23:6; 1Co_1:30;

As Jehovah, above all
Psa_97:9; Joh_3:31;

As Jehovah, the First and the Last
Isa_44:6; Rev_1:17; Isa_48:12-16; Rev_22:13;

As Jehovah's Fellow and Equal
Zec_13:7; Phi_2:6;

As Jehovah of Hosts
Isa_6:1-3; Joh_12:41; Isa_8:13; Isa_8:14; 1Pe_2:8;

As Jehovah, the Shepherd
Isa_40:11; Heb_13:20;

As Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created
Pro_16:4; Col_1:16;

As Jehovah, the Messenger of the covenant
Mal_3:1; Mar_1:2; Luk_2:27;

Invoked as Jehovah
Joe_2:32; Act_2:21; 1Co_1:2;

As the Eternal God and Creator
Psa_102:24-27; Heb_1:8; Heb_1:10-12;

As the mighty God
Isa_9:6;

As the Great God and Saviour
Hos_1:7; Tit_2:13;

As God over all
Psa_45:6; Psa_45:7; Rom_9:5;

As the true God
Jer_10:10; 1Jo_5:20;

As God the Word
Joh_1:1;

As God, the judge
Ecc_12:14; 1Co_4:5; 2Co_5:10; 2Ti_4:1;

As Emmanuel
Isa_7:14; Mat_1:23;

As King of kings and Lord of lords
Deu_10:17; Rev_1:5; Rev_17:14;

As the Holy One
1Sa_2:2; Act_3:14;

As the Lord from heaven
1Co_15:47;

As Lord of the Sabbath
Gen_2:3; Mat_12:8;

As Lord of all
Act_10:36; Rom_10:11-13;

As Son of God
Mat_26:63-67;

As the Only-begotten Son of the Father
Joh_1:14; Joh_1:18; Joh_3:16; Joh_3:18; 1Jo_4:9;

His blood is called the blood of God
Act_20:28;

As one with the Father
Joh_10:30; Joh_10:38; Joh_12:45; Joh_14:7-10; Joh_17:10;

As sending the Spirit, equally with the Father
Joh_14:16; Joh_15:26;

As entitled to equal honour with the Father
Joh_5:23;

As Owner of all things, equally with the Father
Joh_16:15;

As unrestricted by the law of the sabbath, equally with the Father
Joh_5:17;

As the Source of grace, equally with the Father
1Th_3:11; 2Th_2:16; 2Th_2:17;

As unsearchable, equally with the Father
Pro_30:4; Mat_11:27;

As Creator of all things
Isa_40:28; Joh_1:3; Col_1:16; Heb_1:2;

As Supporter and Preserver of all things
Neh_9:6; Col_1:17; Heb_1:3;

As possessed of the fulness of the God head
Col_2:9; Heb_1:3;

As raising the dead
Joh_5:21; Joh_6:40; Joh_6:54;

As raising Himself from the dead
Joh_2:19; Joh_2:21; Joh_10:18;

As Eternal
Isa_9:6; Mic_5:2; Joh_1:1; Col_1:17; Heb_1:8-10; Rev_1:8;

As Omnipresent
Mat_18:20; Mat_28:20; Joh_3:13;

As Omnipotent
Psa_45:3; Phi_3:21; Rev_1:8;

As Omniscient
Joh_16:30; Joh_21:17;

As discerning the thoughts of the heart
1Ki_8:39; Luk_5:22; Eze_11:5; Joh_2:24; Joh_2:25; Rev_2:23;

As unchangeable
Mal_3:6; Heb_1:12; Heb_13:8;

As having power to forgive sins
Col_3:13; Mar_2:7; Mar_2:10;

As Husband of the Church
Isa_54:5; Eph_5:25-32; Isa_62:5; Rev_21:2; Rev_21:9;

As the object of divine worship
Act_7:59; 2Co_12:8; 2Co_12:9; Heb_1:6; Rev_5:12;

As the object of faith
Psa_2:12; 1Pe_2:6; Jer_17:5; Jer_17:7; Joh_14:1;

As God, He redeems and purifies the Church to Himself
Rev_5:9; Tit_2:14;

As God, He presents the Church to Himself
Eph_5:27; Jud_1:24; Jud_1:25;

Saints live to Him as God
Rom_6:11; Gal_2:19; 2Co_5:15;

Acknowledged by His Apostles
Joh_20:28;

Acknowledged by the Old Testament saints
Gen_17:1; Gen_48:15; Gen_48:16; Gen_32:24-30; Hos_12:3-5; Jdg_6:22-24; Jdg_13:21; Jdg_13:22; Job_19:25-27



All Hail the Power of Jesus Name.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Phi 2:10,11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the Word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
 
Dec 27, 2014
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If Christ was not God, then your sins are not forgiven and you won't be resurrected onto eternal life.

You'll find this in the O.T. as well.
Do you want to discuss the Bible?
Christians believe that Jesus died for their sins.
The popular Christian belief is that all men are sinners.
The wage of sin is death.
So all men are condemned to die for their sins.
But Christians believed that by dying in place of all men,
Jesus redeemed all men from the condemnation of sin.
Jesus ransomed all men from death, who accept the gift of grace from God.
IMO, according to the Scriptures in the OT, it is impossible for a man to die for another man’s sins. It is impossible for a man to redeem or ransom another man from God’s condemnation of death.
Allow me to show you from the Scriptures.

Psalm 49:6-9 KJV
6They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
7None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
8(For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever:)
9That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.

No man can redeem the soul of another. Not with riches nor with anything else.

Deuteronomy 24:16 KJV
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Everyman shall be put to death for his own sin. Jesus cannot be put to death for your sin.

Exodus 23:7 KJV
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Do not slay the innocent [Jesus] because God will not justify the wicked. [sinners]
Leviticus 27:29
No one doomed to death under the claim of divine justice, who is to be completely destroyed from among men, shall be ransomed [from suffering the death penalty; he shall surely be put to death.

No man condemned to death by God for his sins, can be ransomed or redeemed. He must be put to death.
Scripture cannot be broken. According to the OT, Jesus could not die for your sins.
 
 
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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Do you want to discuss the Bible?
Christians believe that Jesus died for their sins.
The popular Christian belief is that all men are sinners.
The wage of sin is death.
So all men are condemned to die for their sins.
But Christians believed that by dying in place of all men,
Jesus redeemed all men from the condemnation of sin.
Jesus ransomed all men from death, who accept the gift of grace from God.
IMO, according to the Scriptures in the OT, it is impossible for a man to die for another man’s sins. It is impossible for a man to redeem or ransom another man from God’s condemnation of death.
Allow me to show you from the Scriptures.

Psalm 49:6-9 KJV
6They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
7None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
8(For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever:)
9That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.

No man can redeem the soul of another. Not with riches nor with anything else.

Deuteronomy 24:16 KJV
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Everyman shall be put to death for his own sin. Jesus cannot be put to death for your sin.

Exodus 23:7 KJV
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Do not slay the innocent [Jesus] because God will not justify the wicked. [sinners]
Leviticus 27:29
No one doomed to death under the claim of divine justice, who is to be completely destroyed from among men, shall be ransomed [from suffering the death penalty; he shall surely be put to death.

No man condemned to death by God for his sins, can be ransomed or redeemed. He must be put to death.
Scripture cannot be broken. According to the OT, Jesus could not die for your sins.
 
 
I guess this means you are not willing to provide us with you exegesis of John 1:1?