Was Adam and Eve a newer creation than genesis 1?

[Dino246]

Why doesn't this apply?
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

It doesn't apply for two reasons: it is not addressing the days of creation at all; and it shows two very different time scales one million times apart in comparison to a single day. In the same way Moses, in Psalm 90, compares 1,000 years to 'yesterday' or 'a watch in the night' which depending on your references is either three or four hours. That's now three, if not four different relative comparisons for the length of a day. The point of both passages is that God's perception of time is not the same as ours, and He is not restricted in the dimension of time as we are.

Consider this: is it reasonable to think that the sun stopped for about 1,000 years for Joshua? Is it reasonable to think that the Israelites marched around Jericho for 7,000 years? Is it reasonable to think that Jonah was in the great fish for 3,000 years? Of course not... so why do we question God's word when it says "For in six days, He made the heavens and the earth, the seas, and everything in them"?

 

[DeighAnn]

It doesn't apply for two reasons: it is not addressing the days of creation at all; and it shows two very different time scales one million times apart in comparison to a single day. In the same way Moses, in Psalm 90, compares 1,000 years to 'yesterday' or 'a watch in the night' which depending on your references is either three or four hours. That's now three, if not four different relative comparisons for the length of a day. The point of both passages is that God's perception of time is not the same as ours, and He is not restricted in the dimension of time as we are.

Consider this: is it reasonable to think that the sun stopped for about 1,000 years for Joshua? Is it reasonable to think that the Israelites marched around Jericho for 7,000 years? Is it reasonable to think that Jonah was in the great fish for 3,000 years? Of course not... so why do we question God's word when it says "For in six days, He made the heavens and the earth, the seas, and everything in them"?

Does it strike you at all strange THE CONTEXT in which it is presented?
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Specifically, the heavens were of old.perished.. but the heavens and the earth which are now, reserved, day of judgment (millennium).
I do disagree with your assessment.
1st age perish, new heaven and earth kept in store, day of judgment, I see it as bringing it to our attention connecting it with creation. even bringing in Lords Day of 1000 yrs, respectfully.

 

[DeighAnn]

13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, you have driven me today away from the ground, and from your face I shall be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
15 Then the LORD said to him, “Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him.
16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the LORD and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
17 Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. When he built a city, he called the name of the city after the name of his son, Enoch.
Genesis 4:
3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.
4 The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters.
Genesis 5:
Adam and Eve > Cain > Abel > Seth > other sons and daughters ...

What??? you are not going to add in your own thoughts??? Thank you.

 

[Dino246]

Does it strike you at all strange THE CONTEXT in which it is presented?
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Specifically, the heavens were of old.perished.. but the heavens and the earth which are now, reserved, day of judgment (millennium).
I do disagree with your assessment.
1st age perish, new heaven and earth kept in store, day of judgment, I see it as bringing it to our attention connecting it with creation. even bringing in Lords Day of 1000 yrs, respectfully.

It says nothing about the heavens of old perishing; they are reserved for the future judgment. The world (earth) perished in the water of the flood of Noah's time. Though creation is briefly mentioned, the context is not creation, but rather the willful ignorance of unbelieving, scoffing humanity. The references to 'one day' have nothing to do with the days of creation at all.

 

[calibob]

Do you think primates did not have a pre-frontal cortex at creation?

What would account for them having one now....evolution?

I'm sorry, I'm mistaken it's the cerebral cortex I meant.

 

[UnderGrace]

I'm sorry, I'm mistaken it's the cerebral cortex I meant.

The cerebral cortex is in mammals as well, not just humans.

 

[DeighAnn]

• I think you need to re-examine your doctrine
  
  Other races of mankind did not evolve from Adam and Eve over a mere 6,000 years.
  I would really like to ask your opinion on this. If you get a moment sometime, I would appreciate it.
  
  
  2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
  2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
  2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
  
  That being said, this was presented today,
  
  Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
  
  Where does this fit? What "beginning" does THIS SPEAK TO? The first one, the one that perished or this present one, the one reserved unto fire.
  
  Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
  In this 2nd or "re-creation" THE EARTH is already present, as is ALL the water. UNLIKE God speaking to Job (38 on also in Proverbs 8) where it is MENTIONED THE TIME before the earth ever was, which I believe to be Gen 1:1s beginning. So I went to see exactly what was done this 2nd time and because I am so invested in it I am not sure if I am trying to cram a round peg into a square hole.
  
  Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
  In Jeremiah 4 God tells us how He ended that age, For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate: yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, the heavens above BE BLACK: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
  And the 1st thing that happens is bring back the light.
  
  Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Seemed to confirm.
  
  Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
  
  Genesis 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
  In 2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water perished 7 but the heavens and the earth which are now by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. This would definitely explain why the waters needed to be divided
  
  And the 2nd thing is dividing the waters.
  
  Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
  
  Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
  
  Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
  
  The land "appears" once the waters are divided.
  
  Genesis 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
  
  Once again, no creation just separation and naming.
  
  Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
  
  Bring forth, like it was already here
  
  Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
  
  Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
  
  Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: They had been darkened, now they are lit.
  
  Genesis 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
  
  Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
  
  I thought the word "made" was going to do it all in so I went to check out the originals and 6213 and 853 accomplish and "unknown" respectively for the "mades" A study??? yes, I will, so certainly not a fatal flaw here.
  
  Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
  
  Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
  
  Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
  
  Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. "Bring forth"
  
  Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
  
  Genesis 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
  
  Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
  
  Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. Bring forth AFTER HIS KIND.
  
  Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
  
  Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
  
  Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
  
  An intensive study in the Word of God. Male and Female/no separation. What did Jesus say "Not one jot or tittle..." Does that mean that every word, every change, every figure of speech, every time a word is used the first time, every time it is used a specific amount of times, every time a specific amount are used in a description, do they all have bearing on the Word of God. I do believe all that to be true.
  
  Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
  
  Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
  
  Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
  
  Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made (6213 same as above definition), and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
  
  Now when I compare this "creation" with that that is spoken of in Job 38 on...
  
  I come back to And the earth was/BECAME (tohu, formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness, 8414)
  
  AND THE EARTH WAS " TOHU WA BAHU" FORMLESS AND VOID 8414
  Followed by
  HE ESTABLISHED IT "NOT" "LO TOHU" IN VAIN 8414
  
  But if you go by the order of the oldest book first and that is JOB:
  
  It may better read, "God established the earth not in vain but to be inhabited and it became formless and void after God destroyed it, yet did not make a full end, which had to happen because Lucifer turned out to be a low life back stabbing betraying piece of pond scum of the first order and a bunch of Gods sons are complete fools and idiots and no less evil themselves" I paraphrase.
  
  He established it NOT (tohu, formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness, 8414)
  May the "Iron Strength" of His Truth will always crush and crumble "false doctrine". Lets count on that to keep ourselves in line with His line. Never to worry about being wrong, only staying that way.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[DeighAnn]

It says nothing about the heavens of old perishing; they are reserved for the future judgment. The world (earth) perished in the water of the flood of Noah's time. Though creation is briefly mentioned, the context is not creation, but rather the willful ignorance of unbelieving, scoffing humanity. The references to 'one day' have nothing to do with the days of creation at all.

No it did not.

Perish

1. suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.
   "a great part of his army perished of hunger and disease"
   synonyms:
   die · lose one's life · be killed · fall · expire · meet one's death · be lost · lay down one's life · breathe one's last · draw one's last breath · pass away · go the way of all flesh · give up the ghost · go to glory · meet one's maker · go to one's last resting place · cross the great divide · bite the dust · kick the bucket · cash in one's chips · croak · flatline · turn up one's toes · shuffle off this mortal coil · go the way of the dinosaurs · conk out · buy it · snuff it · peg out · pop one's clogs · hop the twig/stick · bite the big one · buy the farm · check out · hand in one's dinner pail · go bung · exit · decease · depart this life
   • suffer complete ruin or destruction.
     "the old regime had to perish"
     synonyms:
     come to an end · die (away) · be destroyed · cease to exist · disappear · vanish · fade · dissolve · evaporate · melt away · pass into oblivion · wither

 

[garee]

My view.....there are allusions to the fact that it is a renovation in Genesis 1 and 2....not something we can stand on dogmatically.....and for sure I believe the verbiage proves that Satan had already fallen and was HERE during the events of Genesis 1 and 2 <--overlooked by most while believing the word GOOD means our modern usage of GOOD

Amen... Good point godly point . The word good is the signature or autograph. The stamp of faith, the approval of the witness who was there working in the hearts of men .The Holy place of the glory of the father .

All five days then the approval of the perfect or complete the sixth . Very good. . . . . the amen

Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good

Genesis 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was "very good". And the evening and the.

 

[calibob]

The cerebral cortex is in mammals as well, not just humans.

Ok, The point was the brain of modern man is quite noticeably different than all other species and that genesis 1 & 2 are similar but different and God rested on the seventh day The Genesis 2 account starts after God rested. Why it's important to me is debunking myth and tradition and suggesting that the modern TRANSLATIONS of the bible are more accurate than the King James or the Vatican versions, myth or tradition.

The other details aren't so important. It's sort of like the debate about if Moses parted the Red Sea or the Sea of Reeds. I don't care very much, he still parted a sea. The basic story and outcome still remains the same.

 

[garee]

What does Guteberg or tradition have anything to do with this?

Long before Gutenberg the Jews had a complete Hebrew Bible called the Tanakh, and the Torah was (to them) the most important portion of the Bible. Genesis is the first book in the Torah (called the Law of Moses by Christ), and all Jews, as well as Christ and the apostles, fully accepted it as divine revelation -- the words were given to Moses by God.

So in fact God is the Author of Genesis. And Moses was by no means illiterate (which reveals that you are somewhat ignorant about ancient civilizations, and how Moses was brought up as a prince in Egypt and was a learned man: Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. (Heb 11:26)

The plain literal understanding of Genesis 1 and 2 is that the first chapter is an overview and the second chapter focuses on Adam and God's relationship to man (represented by Adm). Any attempt to circumvent this understanding is contrary to the Word of God, since Christ fully accepted the creation account as it is written.

Exactly. There is a word I forgot that describes that kind of action where one event is given in two ways to be used sort of as parable sharing the same spiritual understanding from different perspectives. In the book of Revelation chapter 11 the end of the world and is described differently in 12 of Revelation . Similarities & Differences . I wonder how many chapters are written that way.?

 

[PS]

The English translation is more than adequate and as noted by EG in post 179, CONTEXT DETERMINES MEANING.

1. Evening and morning establishes the bounds of a LITERAL 24 HOUR DAY

2. Adam becomes the name of the first man (even though it applies to mankind in general), just as Eve becomes the name of the first woman.

GENESIS 5
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

So it was not mankind that lived for 930 years, but the first man Adam. So are you now prepared to accept what Scripture says, or will you persist in your errors?

It takes more than 24 hours for the earth to become dry land, verse 10.

Your young earth cult makes the Bible look silly and I'm sure you do not want that. If you allow yome to mean a period of time in it's proper context, i.e. at creation then science supports the Bible and the Bible then becomes the inspired Word of God like it is. As it is, your cult turns the Bible into a nonsense and nobody wants that, not even you.

 

[PS]

I am well aware that 'yom' refers to a period of time, not strictly a 24-hour day. However, context frames the usage, and it is clear that the context indicates a series of regular days in Genesis 1. I'm not aware of any questioning of their length prior to about 1800, when Hutton and Lyell started positing long ages for geological history (both with blatant atheistic bent).

As it happens, the geological era are correct, regardless of religious belief and if you would allow the correct rendering, we have in our hands wonderful proof of God's existence who led people into the truth, thousands of years before science ever existed. As it is, you turn both Judaism and Christianity in a nonsence, and you make believers look like idiots. Thank you very much. NOT. You do the rest of us a great disservice.

 

[Waggles]

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
Genesis 1:
Gen 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for
signs and for seasons, and for days and years,
15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars.
17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
Genesis 1:
Note: the fourth day - our physical realm is of four dimensions, with time being the fourth dimension.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No elements with half-lives shorter that plutonium are found in nature, on the other hand every single element with a half-life longer that plutonium is found in nature, nature being the crust of the earth. Plutonium has a half-life of 88 million years. It has decayed away.

Plutonium would still be here if it was a young earth, the fact that there is none in nature means that the earth must be older than millions of years.

The only explanation for this phenomenon is that Earth has been around long enough for the shorter-lived isotopes to decay away, living only the longer-lived ones.
There are other radio-isotopes that have also decayed away also.

lot of ASSUMPTIONS in this post.

 

[calibob]

Exactly. There is a word I forgot that describes that kind of action where one event is given in two ways to be used sort of as parable sharing the same spiritual understanding from different perspectives. In the book of Revelation chapter 11 the end of the world and is described differently in 12 of Revelation . Similarities & Differences . I wonder how many chapters are written that way.?

Allegory?

 

[calibob]

If my theory or interpretation is correct it would explain the reason that a variety of fossil records does exist not because of evolution. Rather because God created different kinds of mankind species from the very beginning. In Genesis 6 he regretted making mankind at all and settled upon 1 family to save, that of Noah, the direct descendants of Adam and Eve. They went into the Ark the rest soon perished.

God created different species of horses, cattle, cats, elephants etc. However they do not have the rebellious/sinful nature. He saved the best of the best and eradicated the rest.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If my theory or interpretation is correct it would explain the reason that a variety of fossil records does exist not because of evolution. Rather because God created different kinds of mankind species from the very beginning. In Genesis 6 he regretted making mankind at all and settled upon 1 family to save, that of Noah, the direct descendants of Adam and Eve. They went into the Ark the rest soon perished.

God created different species of horses, cattle, cats, elephants etc. However they do not have the rebellious/sinful nature. He saved the best of the best and eradicated the rest.

The complete fossile record can be answered by a catastrophic earth changing water event, Where the fountains of the great deep burst open. And caused the complete earth to flood in a very sort period of time, In fact it is the Only things which adequitely explains the fossile record. If one thinks about how fossils are formed. Considering a specie or creature would have to DIE, Immediately (before they have a chance to decompose) be buried in sand, Then the said sand hardens into sedimentary rock, And the creature decomposes. Leaving a fossil. Considering the fact that there are layers of layers of fossils wtih specific creature all buried together, it also shows a mass killing event took place. With the most vulnerable being at the bottom. And the stronger, more able animals being higher up (because they could survive longer)

 

[calibob]

@UnderGrace my major was not biology. It was addiction in relation to co-occurring disorders. It was a series of courses for certification and not a degree. So I admit I understand more about automobiles than anatomy.

 

[calibob]

@UnderGrace It was a series of courses for certification and not a degree.

As my only reason for going into the field to save lives. A college degree and general education requirements seemed like a waste of time in my 50's.