Was The Book Of Revelation Written Pre-70AD As Many Claim?

[GraceAndTruth]

To answer Truth7t7's unasked questions.........he just tossed some scripture references at me........

Matt 24: 15 Daniel's AOD was the same as LUKE's AOD, an ARMY
Matt 24: 21 Trib is future (of course it was future when Jesus said this.......it was around 30 years in the future at that time)
Matt 24: 29 sun moon stars 'these all refer to nation of Israel
*sun= Israel
*moon= light taken from Israel,
*stars = fall from God's favor

***simile symbolism in the old testament

 

[Truth7t7]

I have no idea what "historicism" is, but even science states that time is an illusion...
Past, present and future are all revealed through the "now". So all the fights and arguments are basically futile.

(Science States)?

You mean those that deny God and his Holy words called the Bible

 

[Truth7t7]

To answer Truth7t7's unasked questions.........he just tossed some scripture references at me........

Matt 24: 15 Daniel's AOD was the same as LUKE's AOD, an ARMY
Matt 24: 21 Trib is future (of course it was future when Jesus said this.......it was around 30 years in the future at that time)
Matt 24: 29 sun moon stars 'these all refer to nation of Israel
*sun= Israel
*moon= light taken from Israel,
*stars = fall from God's favor

***simile symbolism in the old testament

Answer the poster in question with a quote, trying to gain forum support, against an individual poster in mob rule isnt debate, it's a liberal leftist tactic in silencing opposition.

Try practicing direct debate, thanks!

 

[SoulWeaver]

(Science States)?

You mean those that deny God and his Holy words called the Bible

Come on now, Truth7...
You know yourself, that at the end of the day, science cannot contradict the Bible. Where scientists are wrong they will catch up, eventually. So there's no reason to be anti-science. Anti bias? I get that.
Also, science deals in empirical, while God is absolute. So, trying to "find" God with science is silly, it's like apples and oranges. How do you quantitatively measure love? Mercy? You can't.
Did you know that time was a physical property? Anything that has mass is subject to time. Cool stuff.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

John MacDonald's doctrines:
He is a 4 point calvinist (that means he is missing some key element in his doctrine)
He is a Dispenstionalist
His eschatology is Premillenianism
He denies the rapture ( MacArthur remarked during a sermon, "somebody out there is going to say, 'Oh boy, he's into the Left Behind series.' No—I'm not into Rapture-fiction )

MacArthur was a key person in the Lordship salvation controversy in the 1980s, arguing against free grace theology.

There is a lot more....

 

[Truth7t7]

John MacDonald's doctrines:
He is a 4 point calvinist (that means he is missing some key element in his doctrine)
He is a Dispenstionalist
His eschatology is Premillenianism
He denies the rapture ( MacArthur remarked during a sermon, "somebody out there is going to say, 'Oh boy, he's into the Left Behind series.' No—I'm not into Rapture-fiction )

MacArthur was a key person in the Lordship salvation controversy in the 1980s, arguing against free grace theology.

There is a lot more....

Who are you talking to, try quoting a poster, practice common courtesy in debate.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Who are you talking to, try quoting a poster, practice common courtesy in debate.

I thought it was directed to everyone who was uninformed, not to anyone specifically?

 

[Truth7t7]

Come on now, Truth7...
You know yourself, that at the end of the day, science cannot contradict the Bible. Where scientists are wrong they will catch up, eventually. So there's no reason to be anti-science. Anti bias? I get that.
Also, science deals in empirical, while God is absolute. So, trying to "find" God with science is silly, it's like apples and oranges. How do you quantitatively measure love? Mercy? You can't.
Did you know that time was a physical property? Anything that has mass is subject to time. Cool stuff.

Secular Science And Christianity Are In Opposition, There Isnt Any Catching Up As You Suggest.

Secular Science Is/Was The Foundation For (Replacing God) In Communist Society, Study Marx And Darwin For Starters.

Eco-Socialism In Global Warming, The Green Movement, Is At The Heart Of Communism's Push For World Control.

 

[Truth7t7]

John MacDonald's doctrines:
He is a 4 point calvinist (that means he is missing some key element in his doctrine)
He is a Dispenstionalist
His eschatology is Premillenianism
He denies the rapture ( MacArthur remarked during a sermon, "somebody out there is going to say, 'Oh boy, he's into the Left Behind series.' No—I'm not into Rapture-fiction )

MacArthur was a key person in the Lordship salvation controversy in the 1980s, arguing against free grace theology.

There is a lot more....

Nobody has quoted MacArthur as a claim for orthodox Christian belief, hes out in left field in my opinion

The topic is, the dating of the book of Revelation, not the heresy of John MacArthur.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Secular Science And Christianity Are In Opposition, There Isnt Any Catching Up As You Suggest.

Secular Science Is/Was The Foundation For (Replacing God) In Communist Society, Study Marx And Darwin For Starters.

Eco-Socialism In Global Warming, The Green Movement, Is At The Heart Of Communism's Push For World Control.

What you cited is bias motivated science, to push an agenda... and that in itself is unscientific (not to mention, unethical).
When we observe the evidence of Creator in things that are made so that we are without excuse, this is nothing but applying scientific observation. Watch the video I posted, I think you might like it, and don't worry, it's a Bible scholar speaking (who's also an engineer)...

 

[GraceAndTruth]

She ask a question of how I found a date to start with in reference to the midst of the week to fix a date of the writing of Revelation look at Revelation 17:8 and notice that the beast that was,is not yet is is in the pit at the time it's written. Notice that the ten horns and seventh head had not yet come into existence when it was written. Notice it is the scarlet colored beast being shown to John and go back to Revelation 12 and then you will see that Revelation 17 is telling you the date it was written by telling you what existed and what did not at the time it was written( approx ad96) ...

Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. Rome

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. The Caesars, Augustus to Galba

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

so there is your answer, the "8th king is actually one of the 7
The bible will answer most questions if you just read the CONTEXT.

 

[Truth7t7]

What you cited is bias motivated science, to push an agenda... and that in itself is unscientific (not to mention, unethical).
When we observe the evidence of Creator in things that are made so that we are without excuse, this is nothing but applying scientific observation. Watch the video I posted, I think you might like it, and don't worry, it's a Bible scholar speaking (who's also an engineer)...

You used the term (Science States)

Science in the world is dominated by the secular community, 97% would be a low number in my opinion.

Creation Scientist are in the smallest minority in the science community.

Perhaps you need to refrain from the blanket statements, (Science States)?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Nobody has quoted MacArthur as a claim for orthodox Christian belief, hes out in left field in my opinion

The topic is, the dating of the book of Revelation, not the heresy of John MacArthur.

yet you rely on MacDonald and use his definitions
When a teacher of the word has this many errors in his theology, it reminds me of the words of Jesus.."a little leaven spoils the whole"

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I did a quick look at Widipedia on John MacDonald........there is a lot.........too much to post
check it out for yourself if interested

 

[SoulWeaver]

You used the term (Science States)

Science in the world is dominated by the secular community, 97% would be a low number in my opinion.

Creation Scientist are in the smallest minority in the science community.

Perhaps you need to refrain from the blanket statements, (Science States)?

No. I made my position clear (and didn't mind at all explaining it). I strongly believe we shouldn't be applying political correctness within Christian community. I've been noticing for a while that Christians very triggered by certain terms and try to shut them down. This is thought policing and political correctness. But that's what the very guys you oppose try to do to us. I don't want us to be like them, if that makes sense.

 

[Truth7t7]

, 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. Rome

Once Again, This Thread Isnt About Who The Whore Of Babylon Is, And Its Not Rome As You Falsely Claim.

(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, just as Rome

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

 

[Truth7t7]

No. I made my position clear (and didn't mind at all explaining it). I strongly believe we shouldn't be applying political correctness within Christian community. I've been noticing for a while that Christians very triggered by certain terms and try to shut them down. This is thought policing and political correctness. But that's what the very guys you oppose try to do to us. I don't want us to be like them, if that makes sense.

Secular Science Today Is Nothing But A Political Agenda, What Planet DO You Live On.

Creation Science And Secular Science Are Oil And Water, To Deny This Is Denial Of Truth.

I'm not trying to police any bodys thought, nor be politically correct, that's the Leftist Democrats job, I'm a Christian Conservative, big smiles

Oil & Water!

Secular Science: In The Beginning (The Big Bang)

Creation Science: In The Beginning (God Created)

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Was The Book Of Revelation Written Pre-70AD As Many Claim?

Once Again, This Thread Isnt About Who The Whore Of Babylon Is, And Its Not Rome As You Falsely Claim.

(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, just as Rome

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

ok, so shoot me.......I didn't see the sign on the door!
....wait.....the sign says

Was The Book Of Revelation Written Pre-70AD As Many Claim?

so YOU are off the topic too.............

 

[SoulWeaver]

Secular Science Today Is Nothing But A Political Agenda, What Planet DO You Live On.

Creation Science And Secular Science Are Oil And Water, To Deny This Is Denial Of Truth.

I'm not trying to police any bodys thought, nor be politically correct, that's the Leftist Democrats job, I'm a Christian Conservative, big smiles

Oil & Water!

Secular Science: In The Beginning (The Big Bang)

Creation Science: In The Beginning (God Created)

I won't accept thought policing, no matter what ideological robe it's wearing.

 

[Dino246]

Answer the poster in question with a quote, trying to gain forum support, against an individual poster in mob rule isnt debate, it's a liberal leftist tactic in silencing opposition.

So what shall we call your tactics? I'm sure there's a dismissive, demeaning term for them.