We know Jesus is not Jehovah/YHVH

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
15,905
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#41
Elohanu has already told us in plain word that He is the Father, the Son and teh Holy Spirit.

It is written God(Elohanu) is One. Jesus repeats this to Israel, Judah that is, in His visit here.

Isaiah 9:6 states in plain words the child born unto the Virgin would be called teh Everlasting Father, Counselor, Comforter, Prince of Peace, God Almighty (Elohanu Zevoth).

Yahaweh declares in the Old TEstament several times that He (Yahweh) is our Savior, our Redeemer.

Yahweh declares more than once He is our King. How can this be if Jesus is? Easy, Jesus and the Fasther and the Holy Spirit are One.

Yahweh tell us He is our Husband, again, how can this be for Jesus is the Groom of the Bride? Right, He is the Fasther.

I was given a wonderful and very personal dream the night before I was convinced of our Maker.

The following day everything seemed new to me, even casrs going down the street. Walking across the University Quad I was "prayer thinking" to Godward. I kept thinkin and saying, "Oh mankind is so wicked, oh mankind is so evil," until suddenly it hit me.

Wow! I said to my Maker, I am a man. You are It. You are all that is and all that is important. With this abript 180º turn fromthe world to my Maker I had repented, and suddenly everything turned to light and the Light came into me, and has not departed.

One odd even after another occurred until finally I was and am set in the Way and I know Him. Yes, God is One, and He will manifest Himself in any manner that pleases Him, and all that pleases Him is good and pleases His children. His name may be translated completed from yod hay vav hayi to "Self-Existing." I always liked the tranlastion I am that I AM also.

Anyone thinking there is more than one Maker is not yet understanding that the Word is Elohanu..........He came in the flesh, and nothing that was created was created without Him.

This is all true, and it is all yet a mystery to be totally revealed to us,His children come His glorious Day, amen.
god is one. He always has been and always will be.
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#42
although i do still think there is a second clause in the sentence, i don't know anywhere near enough about Hebrew to participate in such a discussion.
i think i see partly what you are getting at here -- you're not saying there are multiple gods, but that Christ and YHVH are one God, and that what we're seeing in the text of Genesis 19:24 is an inkling of that; God in two persons destroying Sodom, Christ Himself ((as the Angel of the LORD?)) on earth and Yah in heaven simultaneously?


i may be getting distracted by your use of the word Jehovah. Babel happened, after all, and we don't really all speak one language at present -- i get the feeling we may be agreeing with each other after all :)
Psalms 82 any one?
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
153
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#43
Elohanu has already told us in plain word that He is the Father, the Son and teh Holy Spirit.

It is written God(Elohanu) is One. Jesus repeats this to Israel, Judah that is, in His visit here.

Isaiah 9:6 states in plain words the child born unto the Virgin would be called teh Everlasting Father, Counselor, Comforter, Prince of Peace, God Almighty (Elohanu Zevoth).

Yahaweh declares in the Old TEstament several times that He (Yahweh) is our Savior, our Redeemer.

Yahweh declares more than once He is our King. How can this be if Jesus is? Easy, Jesus and the Fasther and the Holy Spirit are One.

Yahweh tell us He is our Husband, again, how can this be for Jesus is the Groom of the Bride? Right, He is the Fasther.

I was given a wonderful and very personal dream the night before I was convinced of our Maker.

The following day everything seemed new to me, even casrs going down the street. Walking across the University Quad I was "prayer thinking" to Godward. I kept thinkin and saying, "Oh mankind is so wicked, oh mankind is so evil," until suddenly it hit me.

Wow! I said to my Maker, I am a man. You are It. You are all that is and all that is important. With this abript 180º turn fromthe world to my Maker I had repented, and suddenly everything turned to light and the Light came into me, and has not departed.

One odd even after another occurred until finally I was and am set in the Way and I know Him. Yes, God is One, and He will manifest Himself in any manner that pleases Him, and all that pleases Him is good and pleases His children. His name may be translated completed from yod hay vav hayi to "Self-Existing." I always liked the tranlastion I am that I AM also.

Anyone thinking there is more than one Maker is not yet understanding that the Word is Elohanu..........He came in the flesh, and nothing that was created was created without Him.

This is all true, and it is all yet a mystery to be totally revealed to us,His children come His glorious Day, amen.
god is one. He always has been and always will be.
And given the fact Elohinhu is plural in Hebrew, the Shema is speaking of more than one person.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,193
5,960
113
#45
anyone who does not witness that Christ is God is not Jehovah's witness ((contrary to their nomenclature)) because Jehovah Himself witnesses that the Messiah is God.

And this is His name by which He will be called,
‘YHWH our righteousness.’
(Jeremiah 23:6)

we who witness of Christ are the witnesses of Jehovah
 

RoboOp

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 4, 2008
1,419
333
83
#47
Sorry this thread got posted, but maybe it's a good thing to allow people to show the truth from the word of God, correcting the heresy. The OP is now banned because of his obvious agenda. But feel free to post more.

Jesus is............ EVERYTHING.

We can't exalt Him enough.

Can't praise Him enough.

Can't thank Him enough.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
15,905
2,874
113
#48
And given the fact Elohinhu is plural in Hebrew, the Shema is speaking of more than one person.
Actually Elohanu means our strong one. Elohim is the plural of strong one.....

El and Eli are also singular the second of the first person possessive meaning My God.

Again, Yahweh will manifest Himself in any manner that pleases Him. The fact that He says once and repeates it making is a sure thing that Elohim is One is just a little hint, but again, go toe Isaiah 9:6 and you will read what God said to Isaiah.

The Child born to the Virgin would be called all the names of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Have your received the HOLY Spirit? I have, and this does not mean I am God, but He dwells within me, and come the resurrection this is what will raise me and you and all, yet God, Elohanu, Elohim is one.

If you wish to be grammatical or some kind of intellectual, you may approach our Father as such, but I will approach Him as a child adopted in love, faith and trust for all the facts in this age will burn come the fire next time
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,193
5,960
113
#49
And given the fact Elohinhu is plural in Hebrew, the Shema is speaking of more than one person.
i have read that plural form in Hebrew can indicate significance or greatness, that it is not always indicating number.
i have read that for example, everywhere the name of God appears in Hebrew it is singular in tense but uses plural forms of pronouns and verbs.

God is One, and there is no other -- but from the beginning He has been revealing Himself in ways that blow up human wisdom and anthropomorphic projection of ourselves on Him.


"personhood" is a tricky thing to define and may not be the best word to use. English in fact is probably not an adequate language to use to talk about these things, if any human language is.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
15,905
2,874
113
#51
The following explanation is only to clarify what the word El, Elohim means.

Before Moses received the title given Him to give to the Children of Israel, all of the peopes of most of the known world called their gods mighty ones or stonr ones, elohim. This was no exception with Israel, and the word is used to this day in Hebrew.

When we use it with a capital E it represents waht we in English call God. Used with reverence any name is just fine.

It is not mysterious nor is Yahweh, nor is Yeshua........they are all titles the second two words put together as attributs of our Maker....Yahweh may be said to be "h Is Wh He Is,. I am that I am. or the Self-Existing.. Yeshua or Yeshiyahu is the Redeemer of Yah(weh) or the Salvation of Yah(weh).

It does matter what they mean (to me), but as long as ne worships the Father the Son and the HOly Spirit as One God, he is jsut fine because it translates as knowin g our Maker well.

There is only One God, so let us praise God in Jesus Christ's name,amen
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
153
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#52
anyone who does not witness that Christ is God is not Jehovah's witness ((contrary to their nomenclature)) because Jehovah Himself witnesses that the Messiah is God.

And this is His name by which He will be called,
‘YHWH our righteousness.’
(Jeremiah 23:6)

we who witness of Christ are the witnesses of Jehovah
I understand that but as the admin said his agenda, plus saying "servant of Jehovah" was evidence he was JW.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
123
43
#53
Is 9:6 "For unto us a child is born and unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Councilor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, and the Prince of Peace." Take a finger. Its one finger with three distinct components; flesh, blood, and bone and each component fulfills a separate function all working together.

Seedz... The Lord changed Israel's name to Jacob after wrestling with him and Jacob was the father of the 12 tribes of Israel after adopting Joseph's two sons.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
15,905
2,874
113
#54
Is 9:6 "For unto us a child is born and unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Councilor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, and the Prince of Peace." Take a finger. Its one finger with three distinct components; flesh, blood, and bone and each component fulfills a separate function all working together.

Seedz... The Lord changed Israel's name to Jacob after wrestling with him and Jacob was the father of the 12 tribes of Israel after adopting Joseph's two sons.

I believe you know you meant to say He changed Jacob's name to Israel.......
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,730
3,277
113
#56
all I know is I want a smiley with a big question mark to be included in the reaction button

the surprised smiley is not cutting it for me. even the truth can surprise you

and maybe a smiley with some popcorn. yeah. popcorn smiley reaction. :cool:
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,419
954
113
#58
Jehovah/YHVH God made this promise to Israel;
Deut 18:15-19 Jehovah thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 according to all that thou desiredst of Jehovah thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.


Peter assures us this prophecy is about Jesus Christ of Nazareth;
Acts 3:18-23 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.


Jesus makes it exquisitely clear, the words which he spoke were NOT his own, but were his Father's;
John 12:48-50 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


Therefore, we KNOW Jesus' FATHER is Jehovah/YHVH God .... and Jesus is not.
Jesus, Father Jehovah is God, but Jesus is not? So now we have two Jesus'?

I think that you are very confused!
 
#59
Tis 1 thing to "see" the Kingdom of God. Takes a "certain amount" of "perfecting of one's spirit" to even "enter" the Kingdom of God. And takes even more "perfecting (maturing), and sacrificing/s" in "discerning" the differences! Wasn't it Paul who said, whether we teach in part, or prophecy, in part, or heal in part, or cast demons, in part, etc. etc. These are ALL OF the "SAME SPIRIT!"

And, so it is, with "The Word", that was/IS GOD! The "same" that was made "flesh" and walked "amongst" men! Emanuel! God WITH US! When Jesus oft times referred to His Father "in Heaven", who "sent" Him? Kinda makes ya wonder: "Well?!" Just "Where IS "this Heaven", anyways??" Plus, when one considers, scientific evidence, that us lowly humans only "utilize" only 7-10% of that "grey matter" betweenst our ears? (leaves for a whole LOT of "darkness" and "void" don't it?) Plus Jesus said that He goes "to Prepare" a place FOR us?" That "WHERE He IS?" "YOU, "may" be there also?" "Believing and Accepting Christ is the ONLY WAY, TO (even see) (CHILD of light) The Father's Kingdom, and upon being reborn of the (HIS/God's/Holy) Spirit? Only THEN, are we even "able" to "enter" into the Kingdom of God. This "entering" takes a "certain amount" of spiritual maturing (perfecting. which also includes discipline). And a whole lot MORE of the "same", including "sacrifice", to even ask Jesus as to "Just how many of these rooms/mansions/places of abidance, are there?" And Jesus scratches His head a little and replies: "OHHHHH????....About a 150 billion BILLION!" OH!...Well, tickle me silly, with an Angel's Feather!"...."Is that ALL?!??" :unsure:;):)o_Oo_Oo_O:)