We know Jesus is not Jehovah/YHVH

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,545
1,016
113
#61
.... says no Scripture, ever.
There is only "one true God, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU hast sent".... according to Jesus himself (John 17:3)
Don't leave out the rest of the scriptures which proclaim Jesus to be God:

God the Father speaking regarding the Son:

"But about the Son (Jesus Christ) he (God the Father) says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

"
He (God the Father)also says (regarding the Son),

“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”

You see Hebrews 1:6 where it says "Let all God’s angels worship him?" Scripture states that we are to worship God and Him only shall you serve. If the angels and all of creation are worshiping Jesus, that would make Him God.

And Thomas said to Him (Jesus) "My Lord and My God!" and Jesus said, Thomas, you believer because you have seen. Blessed are those who believe but have not seen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”

“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The religious leaders understood that when Jesus said "I and the Father are One" that He was proclaiming to be God.

Tell me Dartman, who do you think is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,072
3,003
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#62
Tis 1 thing to "see" the Kingdom of God. Takes a "certain amount" of "perfecting of one's spirit" to even "enter" the Kingdom of God. And takes even more "perfecting (maturing), and sacrificing/s" in "discerning" the differences! Wasn't it Paul who said, whether we teach in part, or prophecy, in part, or heal in part, or cast demons, in part, etc. etc. These are ALL OF the "SAME SPIRIT!"

And, so it is, with "The Word", that was/IS GOD! The "same" that was made "flesh" and walked "amongst" men! Emanuel! God WITH US! When Jesus oft times referred to His Father "in Heaven", who "sent" Him? Kinda makes ya wonder: "Well?!" Just "Where IS "this Heaven", anyways??" Plus, when one considers, scientific evidence, that us lowly humans only "utilize" only 7-10% of that "grey matter" betweenst our ears? (leaves for a whole LOT of "darkness" and "void" don't it?) Plus Jesus said that He goes "to Prepare" a place FOR us?" That "WHERE He IS?" "YOU, "may" be there also?" "Believing and Accepting Christ is the ONLY WAY, TO (even see) (CHILD of light) The Father's Kingdom, and upon being reborn of the (HIS/God's/Holy) Spirit? Only THEN, are we even "able" to "enter" into the Kingdom of God. This "entering" takes a "certain amount" of spiritual maturing (perfecting. which also includes discipline). And a whole lot MORE of the "same", including "sacrifice", to even ask Jesus as to "Just how many of these rooms/mansions/places of abidance, are there?" And Jesus scratches His head a little and replies: "OHHHHH????....About a 150 billion BILLION!" OH!...Well, tickle me silly, with an Angel's Feather!"...."Is that ALL?!??" :unsure:;):)o_Oo_Oo_O:)
Nice posting. It is night here, well going on 8 PM and I will be hitting the sack real soon, God be willing, but you my friend and family have given me a lot to chew on overight, thanks...j
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,070
328
83
#64
Jesus is Jehovah, and Jehovah means physical deliverance, and physical blessings, where Jesus means spiritual deliverance, and spiritual blessings.

Jesus is the name that is above all names, not only in this world, but also in the world to come, and Jesus' name is above the name Jehovah, but it includes Jehovah.

God's name represents His character towards people, and king Solomon asked how God could dwell in a house made by man when He is an omnipresent Spirit, and God said His name will be there, which He also placed His name in Jerusalem.

Jesus and Jehovah represent God's character towards people, which if Jesus is above the name Jehovah then Jesus must be the name of the Father.

In Isaiah God said that He will reveal His new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which Jesus told Philip, if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father, and the words that I speak are not My own, but it is the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works.

Which God spoke unto us in these last days by His Son.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name, and manifested the Father's name, and declared the Father's name.

The name of the Father is Jesus.

The prophet Agur asked, what is God's name, and what is His Son's name, if you can tell, which means the Father and Son would share the same name.

The Bible says the Son shall be called Jesus, and in Hebrews the Son inherited the name from the Father.

The name of the Son is Jesus.

In John the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

The name of the Holy Spirit is Jesus.

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, assist in the spiritual salvation process of people.

Jehovah means physical deliverance, and physical blessings, but the name could not provide salvation, like the Old Testament physical ordinances could not provide salvation, for God used the name Jehovah for physical blessings to represent His character towards people while it was a physical covenant.

For the Father to have the name Jehovah, but not Jesus, would mean that the Father does not provide spiritual salvation, but only physical salvation, for He would only use the name Jehovah to represent His character, which means the Father must have the name Jesus to provide spiritual salvation, and spiritual blessings, and the Son must have the name Jesus for the same, and the Holy Spirit must have the name Jesus for the same.

For the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all assist in the spiritual salvation of people, and no longer a physical covenant, but a spiritual covenant, so they must have the name Jesus to represent their character of providing spiritual salvation, and spiritual blessings.

For the Father is not Jehovah, and the Son, Jesus, but they are both Jesus.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,665
6,355
113
#66
Jesus is Jehovah, and Jehovah means physical deliverance, and physical blessings, where Jesus means spiritual deliverance, and spiritual blessings.

Return, O YHVH, deliver my soul:
oh save me for thy mercies' sake.

(Psalm 6:4)

hmm somebody writing songs for this book thinks Jehovah spiritually delivers
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,406
3,096
113
#67
For the Father is not Jehovah, and the Son, Jesus, but they are both Jesus.
You seem to be a little confused, so let's back up.

"Jehovah" is now generally seen as "Yahweh" and even that is an approximation, since there are no consonants in the Hebrew word YHWH (which has been consistently translated as LORD (small capitals) by the King James translators.

In the Old Testament, you will frequently find the term "LORD God" which is equivalent to Yahweh Elohim. And this is generally applied to God the Father.

But when God came to Moses He identified Himself as "I AM THAT I AM " or simply " I AM". That is His personal name.

First God said to Moses: ...I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. (Exod 3:6) This is Elohim speaking to Moses

But then He said to Moses:...I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. (Exod 3:14,15)

But then we see Jesus also saying that He is I AM, and that He existed long before Abraham. Which means that Jesus is also YHWH = Yahweh (Jehovah).

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM (he ), ye shall die in your sins... Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. (John 8:23,24,58).

The translators should rightly have capitalized I AM (which I have done).
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,665
6,355
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#68
The translators should rightly have capitalized I AM (which I have done)
shoulda left out "he" altogether, too, not just in this verse but several others, IMHO.
the Jews - who weren't dummies, whatever their other faults may have been - knew immediately that He made Himself equal to YHWH.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,665
6,355
113
#69
here also for example - i took the liberty to delete the "he" in the KJV:

As soon then as he had said unto them, I AM, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
(John 18:6)
which connects here:
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
(Isaiah 28:13)
the Word, to make them fall backward, broken, snared and taken.
He was not '
handed over' -- He was delivered, and went willingly of His own accord to His own purpose.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,345
1,747
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#70
'One God, One Faith, One Baptism'...
'One Spirit'... - not (3), ONE...
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,557
1,847
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#71
'One God, One Faith, One Baptism'...
'One Spirit'... - not (3), ONE...
One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Coequal and eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
P

pjharrison

Guest
#72
Jehovah/YHVH God made this promise to Israel;
Deut 18:15-19 Jehovah thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 according to all that thou desiredst of Jehovah thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.


Peter assures us this prophecy is about Jesus Christ of Nazareth;
Acts 3:18-23 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.


Jesus makes it exquisitely clear, the words which he spoke were NOT his own, but were his Father's;
John 12:48-50 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


Therefore, we KNOW Jesus' FATHER is Jehovah/YHVH God .... and Jesus is not.
Jesus is God.
John 1 In the beginning was the word. and the word was with God , and the word was God. 2. The same in the beginning with God. 3. All things were made by him and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Gen: 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Verse 3. Tells us that God is the mind (And God Said) Jesus is the word (let there be Light) The holy sprit does the work(and there was light).
God is the mind,( the Father), Jesus is the word. When God speaks that is Jesus( the son). The Holly spirit does the work that is done. ;
John 12: 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50: And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Because God is the mind, Jesus is the Word, and the Holy Spirit does the work.
John 1: 14 And the word was made flesh; and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
Jun 29, 2018
67
10
8
#73
Jehovah/YHVH God made this promise to Israel;
Deut 18:15-19 Jehovah thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 according to all that thou desiredst of Jehovah thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.


Peter assures us this prophecy is about Jesus Christ of Nazareth;
Acts 3:18-23 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.


Jesus makes it exquisitely clear, the words which he spoke were NOT his own, but were his Father's;
John 12:48-50 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


Therefore, we KNOW Jesus' FATHER is Jehovah/YHVH God .... and Jesus is not.
Yes it is.
According to the teaching of the Church, although the Father, the Son and the Spirit are one, but they are not amounts to the same thing.
The Son is not the Father, and the Father is not the Son. The identification of the Father that He is the Son (the negation of the difference between the Father and the Son) is called the heresy Sabellianism, in modern design it is has a continuation as
Oneness Pentecostalism. It can be unequivocally said that it is a false teaching, it contradicts both the Jewish tradition with which Christianity was originally associated at the beginning, and the Orthodox Church doctrine of the Trinity in later.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,072
3,003
113
#74
Yes it is.
According to the teaching of the Church, although the Father, the Son and the Spirit are one, but they are not amounts to the same thing.
The Son is not the Father, and the Father is not the Son. The identification of the Father that He is the Son (the negation of the difference between the Father and the Son) is called the heresy Sabellianism, in modern design it is has a continuation as
Oneness Pentecostalism. It can be unequivocally said that it is a false teaching, it contradicts both the Jewish tradition with which Christianity was originally associated at the beginning, and the Orthodox Church doctrine of the Trinity in later.
It would seem the "Teaching of the Church" should come from the Word and not from the thinking of men.......Those in charge of the curriculum should actually read the Word before they begin to think they are qualified to teach it.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,497
1,002
113
#75
I think much confusion comes in respect the Son of man and how we are to view him. God is not a man as us never was never could be. God is supernatural without nature a beginning of Spirit life or end thereof. He has no mother or father. But appeared as a man a demonstration of God not seen.

He is not literally a father and son but uses human terms as immutable attributes to help us understand how he work in the affairs of men.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,251
421
83
#76
Kind of out of topic, but why is Israel named Israel?

IS-RA-EL?

Is there a deeper meaning?
Yes but most here do not want to hear it. Where did the Jews come from?
 
P

pjharrison

Guest
#77
Yes it is.
According to the teaching of the Church, although the Father, the Son and the Spirit are one, but they are not amounts to the same thing.
The Son is not the Father, and the Father is not the Son. The identification of the Father that He is the Son (the negation of the difference between the Father and the Son) is called the heresy Sabellianism, in modern design it is has a continuation as
Oneness Pentecostalism. It can be unequivocally said that it is a false teaching, it contradicts both the Jewish tradition with which Christianity was originally associated at the beginning, and the Orthodox Church doctrine of the Trinity in later.
The father and the son are one. Without the son nothing would have been made. The Father the son and the Holy Spirit are one, they just have different functions. The father is the mind. The son is the word. And the Holy Spirit does the work. Together they are one God. If Jesus(the word) had not of spoken, all that was made in creation would not have been made. That's why all through the new testament Jesus says I do not speak of myself, but for him who sent me. Because he speaks what God the Father tell him. He says the Father and I are one. Just as the human has three parts. The body, soul and spirit, work together as one.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,557
1,847
113
#78
Yes it is.
According to the teaching of the Church, although the Father, the Son and the Spirit are one, but they are not amounts to the same thing.
The Son is not the Father, and the Father is not the Son. The identification of the Father that He is the Son (the negation of the difference between the Father and the Son) is called the heresy Sabellianism, in modern design it is has a continuation as
Oneness Pentecostalism. It can be unequivocally said that it is a false teaching, it contradicts both the Jewish tradition with which Christianity was originally associated at the beginning, and the Orthodox Church doctrine of the Trinity in later.
Jewish tradition would have little reference to the Son. God promised Israel a Redeemer who is the Son but He was in the shadows in the OT. He was brought to Light in the NT. Israel did not have as clear a picture of the Holy Spirit as we have today in the NT.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Seedz

Guest
#79
Sorry this thread got posted, but maybe it's a good thing to allow people to show the truth from the word of God, correcting the heresy. The OP is now banned because of his obvious agenda. But feel free to post more.

Jesus is............ EVERYTHING.

We can't exalt Him enough.

Can't praise Him enough.

Can't thank Him enough.
So
Yes but most here do not want to hear it. Where did the Jews come from?

Canaanites no? Even YHWH, changed his name. When he appeared to Abraham He was not YHWH.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,072
3,003
113
#80
The people who make up what was called the Twelve Tribes of Israel were descended of Abraham and Sarah.

When Abraham was yet Abram livingin Padan Aram, he was one of the very last humans who yet believe the Maker of Adame and the universe God told Abram to leave his kindred and his land and go where God would take hime.

Abram obeyed God, and wound up in what we knews as Canaan. Abram believed God and this was reckoned to him as righteousness.

At the age of 99 or wpp he was told by our Father that he would father a child with Sarah 99 years. Sarah overheard this and laughed behind the tent door. Thus the child was called Isaac because she laughed.

Because Abraham came from Padan Aram crossing into Canaan over the Jordan River, he and all of his offspring, Sarah too, were called Hebrews which may be translated as from across the river.

After Isaac came Jacob who one night wrested with the Angle of the Lord. Because he had put up a good fight God renamed him Israel.. from Ish ra El man with God........some say wrestled with god and some say rules with God.... My own study has come across all of these.

Israel could just as easily be ish sar el, it well could be prince with God......

We are now part of the Israel of God, fellow heirs to His Kingdom with the rest of Israel. Pay close attention while reading all of the Word and perhaps this information will leap out to yo in the Old and New Testaments as man has named them.