What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

[Grace777x70]

here is a good video..short..9 minutes on..what if we willfully sin as in Hebrews 10?.


[video=youtube;9gqExXWD92E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gqExXWD92E[/video]

 

[Goodnewsman]

did you totally ignore my question? LOL

I thought this was a discussion forum, not a link to another website.

come on! (did you just ask me to define the word repent?)

seems like I remember a former President asking "what the definition of is, is"

remember revelation 3 "REPENT OR ELSE" or else what?

1. repent or else I will remove the candlestick (Ephesus)
2. repent or else I will fight against you (Pergamum)
3. repent or else I will come upon you as a thief (sardis)

I guess I is a good idea to know what "repent" means then...

A New Covenant Picture of Repentance

Here is the teaching on repentance..click on the link below for a read...

A New Covenant Picture of Repentance – Escape to Reality

 

[brmicke]

This is a teaching from escapetoreality website on "falling from grace."


I am so glad the book of Galatians is in the Bible because we can learn a lot from other people’s mistakes.

The Galatians lost their liberty in Christ by allowing themselves to be enslaved to the yoke of the law. In their case the issue was circumcision, but for us it could be anything that puts a price tag on grace—church rules, confession of sins, the spiritual disciplines, whatever. I’m not against these things. I’m saying there is nothing we can do to add or improve upon Christ’s perfect work.

We stand by grace alone.

The Galatians had a different view. Some guys with long faces and long knives came preaching mixture and the Galatians bought it hook, line, and sinker. But does this mean the Galatians were now unsaved, under condemnation, and hell-bound? No. Falling from grace does not mean falling out of the kingdom.

“You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” (Gal 5:4)

The NIV Bible says the Galatians alienated themselves from Christ. Other translations say they became estranged, separated, severed, and cut off. These are serious words with serious implications, but they do not imply condemnation.

Who cut them off? It wasn’t Christ.

Who did the separating? Not Jesus.

As always, he remains the thoroughly faithful husband who keeps us safe while promising that no one, not even ourselves in a moment of stupidity, can snatch us out of his hands.

Paul never tells the Galatians, “You are losing your salvation.” Instead, he says, “You are indulging the flesh” (Galatians 5:13). They were becoming carnal, biting and devouring one another in vicious arguments. The danger is not that God will destroy them, but that “you will be destroyed by each other” (Galatians 5:15).

Remove grace from any community and you will soon have quarrels, strife, bickering, manipulation, envy, hatred, and all the other works of the flesh that Paul lists in Galatians 5:19–21. But none of these things will send you to hell.

When Paul reminds the Galatians that “they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom,” he’s saying, “Those who belong to Christ shouldn’t act like those who don’t.”

If Christians were kicked out of the kingdom every time they walked after the flesh, heaven would be empty.

In the following verses why does it say that a person can come out of prison (hell) upon restitution?

Mt 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.
23 If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee,
24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.

 

[Samual]

Feel free to correct me, but I believe that falling from grace is actually more along the lines of losing your faith, in other words, deciding you no longer believe in God and Jesus and anything biblically related. Falling from grace essentially means, to me at least, going from a Christian to an Atheist. Now, that said, the price is your soul. That's not to say that you can't be forgiven, known as the unpardonable sin, which is another topic entirely. Again, just my opinion, feel free to correct me.

 

[Grace777x70]

I'll bite just one time..repentance simply means in the greek = to change your mind..period..

In those days they would use the word like this..." I was going to go to the colloseum but I repented ( metanioa - changed my mind ) and went to the hanging gardens instead."

Today we could say..I was going to go eat at McDonalds but I repented ( metoia - change the mind ) and went to Burger King instead.

If you want further understanding you can read the link I gave you in the last post..it explains "repentance " out for the Old Covenant and the New Covenant as well.

did you totally ignore my question? LOL

I thought this was a discussion forum, not a link to another website.

come on! (did you just ask me to define the word repent?)

seems like I remember a former President asking "what the definition of is, is"

remember revelation 3 "REPENT OR ELSE" or else what?

1. repent or else I will remove the candlestick (Ephesus)
2. repent or else I will fight against you (Pergamum)
3. repent or else I will come upon you as a thief (sardis)

 

[brmicke]

Feel free to correct me, but I believe that falling from grace is actually more along the lines of losing your faith, in other words, deciding you no longer believe in God and Jesus and anything biblically related. Falling from grace essentially means, to me at least, going from a Christian to an Atheist. Now, that said, the price is your soul. That's not to say that you can't be forgiven, known as the unpardonable sin, which is another topic entirely. Again, just my opinion, feel free to correct me.

Please understand that a person cannot assign arbitrary definitions to scriptural terms.

God gives grace only to those who humble themselves before Him and do things His way.

Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, Titus 2:11-12. That means that to try and be made just/right in God's eye's by any method other than denying ungodly activity is falling or departing from grace.

That would constitute establishing your own definition of what is right, which of course means that a person must first reject God's definition of what is right in favor of their own. Hence the phrase right or righteous in their own eyes, Job 32:1.

 

[VCO]

Another question then: what if you don't repent of your sins?

what if you acknowledge sin is there, but never repent? are there any consequences for this?

WRONG QUESTION:

What makes you think you EVER were a real Christian, if you DO NOT have that continual desire to show your LOVE FOR HIM, by walking in obedience?

NO DESIRE TO ADMIT TO GOD THAT YOU ARE A SINNER, COMBINED WITH A DESIRE TO REPENT OF THOSE SINS, only validates that you have NEVER have had the Holy Spirit in your heart POURING GOD'S LOVE THERE.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Romans 5:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

1 John 5:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] This is how we know that we love God’s children when we love God and obey His commands.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,

1 John 2:3-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:


BEING IN HIM IS SYNONYMOUS WITH BEING SAVED OR BORN AGAIN, HAVING THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US.

The LACK OF WANTING TO REPENT, only validates that they are NOT IN HIM, and are YET to become a real Christian. Like I said before, all your works that are NOT generated by GOD's Love in your heart, are a pile of filthy rags. THEY CANNOT SAVE YOU, NOR KEEP YOUR SALVATION. ONLY JESUS CHRIST IN YOU CAN do works out that GOD GIVEN LOVE, called AGAPE.


Galatians 2:20-21 (GW)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live I live by believing in God's Son, who loved me and took the punishment for my sins.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I don't reject God's kindness. If we receive God's approval by obeying laws, then Christ's death was pointless.

It is NOT that we obey, but RATHER WHY WE OBEY, that determines if that obedience is of value to GOD. THE ONLY PURE MOTIVE FOR OBEDIENCE is to show AGAPE LOVE for HIM.

Most of us here are EVANGELICALS, no matter what Denomination we come from, so this all makes perfect sense to us, because Christ is in us, and we in HIM.


Revelation 3:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] As many as I love, I rebuke and discipline. So be committed and repent.

 

[VCO]

I'll bite just one time..repentance simply means in the greek = to change your mind..period..

In those days they would use the word like this..." I was going to go to the colloseum but I repented ( metanioa - changed my mind ) and went to the hanging gardens instead."

Today we could say..I was going to go eat at McDonalds but I repented ( metoia - change the mind ) and went to Burger King instead.

If you want further understanding you can read the link I gave you in the last post..it explains "repentance " out for the Old Covenant and the New Covenant as well.

And it is like the Military Command, "ABOUT FACE". If we were walking away from GOD will, and repented, we are then walking in accordance with will.

 

[VCO]

And it is like the Military Command, "ABOUT FACE". If we were walking away from GOD will, and repented, we are then walking in accordance with will.

I should not type when I am tired. It should have read as follows:

And it is like the Military Command, "ABOUT FACE". If we were walking away from GOD's Will, and repented, we are then walking in accordance with GOD's Will.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen!...Gotcha!..I look at repentance as in changing my mind from relying on myself and turning to God's salvation in Jesus our Lord! Acts 26:220

I should not type when I am tired. It should have read as follows:

And it is like the Military Command, "ABOUT FACE". If we were walking away from GOD's Will, and repented, we are then walking in accordance with GOD's Will.

 

[Grace777x70]

Maybe we should let the Holy Spirit deal with all of us in whatever area He deems is fit for us individually? I don't see any fruit coming from these endless talks here. Some believe one way and some another.

The endless debates are useless and are really causing divisions amongst us which should not be. We should just "allow" the other to have the freedom to believe however they are inclined. This "attacking" each other and calling names and having malice towards another and slandering each other and leaders in the body of Christ must stop.

I for one am leaning towards just leaving the information and let the Holy Spirit show the people interested what He wants them to know about any area. If someone has a legitimate question , then that is fine and can be asked in a loving, respectful way..then those I will answer.

We can trust Him to reveal Jesus to us.

I just want people to have another view other then the so-called traditional view and the other side should be free to say what they want too as well. They too can leave websites or blogs for people to access to determine within themselves things.

I tend to think what Gamaliel had to say about disputes with the apostles might be appropriate here.

Acts 5:38-40 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown;
[SUP]39 [/SUP] but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God."
[SUP]40 [/SUP] They took his advice; and after calling the apostles in, they flogged them and ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and then released them.

Let's all be willing to take a final flogging from both groups and then leave it in the Lord's mighty hands...we are all brothers and want to grow in the grace and knowledge of out Lord Jesus. Let's lift Him up. He is our Life!

 

[VCO]

did you totally ignore my question? LOL

I thought this was a discussion forum, not a link to another website.

come on! (did you just ask me to define the word repent?)

seems like I remember a former President asking "what the definition of is, is"

remember revelation 3 "REPENT OR ELSE" or else what?

1. repent or else I will remove the candlestick (Ephesus)irepent or else I will fight against you (Pergamum)
2. repent or else I will come upon you as a thief (sardis)

I will point this out One last time. The Majority of people who are calling themselves Christians, have NEVER come through the Narrow Gate of receiving HIM as MASTER (which is exactly what the word LORD means). Therefore they NEVER have had the Holy Spirit enter their hearts and NEVER have had the Holy Spirit pour out GOD's LOVE in their heart. They NEVER HAVE KNOWN HIM intimately and personally in their hearts. They have fallen for a watered down easy believism false gospel. They came through the wrong gate and are on wide road to Destruction. They think they are Christians because the go to church and sit on a pew. But the devil has done that many times. THEY NEVER HAVE BEEN SAVED, SO YES THE WARNINGS are very appropriate.

Matthew 7:13-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
{Fruit is lifestyle characteristics, not one time stumblings into sin.}
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
[SUP]24 [/SUP] “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn’t collapse, because its foundation was on the rock.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But everyone who hears these words of Mine and doesn’t act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. And its collapse was great!”
[SUP]28 [/SUP] When Jesus had finished this sermon, the crowds were astonished at His teaching,
[SUP]29 [/SUP] because He was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like their scribes.
YOU DO NOT "KNOW HIM" LIKE THAT UNTIL AFTER YOU COME THROUGH THE NARROW GATE.

The MANY think they are Christians, but in reality, they have never been born again.

John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

Luke 13:23-25 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Strive to enter throughthe narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,'

Matthew 25:11-12 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!'
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'

Those so-called virgins (churchgoers), had every outward appearance of being Real Christians, except ONE. They had no oil in their lamps, which symbolizes NO HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM. When we are born again, the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts, pouring GOD's LOVE there, which establishes that inner personal LOVE relationship with JESUS CHRIST AS LORD, which means MASTER. THAT IS WHAT HE MEANS BY KNOWING HIM. I suppose there are many stumbling blocks to resisting submitting to HIM as Master out of LOVE, but the primary one is mankind's sinful nature wants to remain master or lord of our own lives. SO YES THE CALL TO REPENT IS VERY APPROPRIATE.

Matthew 22:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

[Goodnewsman]

wrong question???? didnt think there was a wrong question? I agree with you though, a Christian will want to repent and come clean with God.

surely you believe that YOU can fall into sin and backslide? if (God forbid) you do and don't come home, like the Prodical son, is there any consequences if Christians die in the hog pen of the world away from the father?

WRONG QUESTION:

What makes you think you EVER were a real Christian, if you DO NOT have that continual desire to show your LOVE FOR HIM, by walking in obedience?

NO DESIRE TO ADMIT TO GOD THAT YOU ARE A SINNER, COMBINED WITH A DESIRE TO REPENT OF THOSE SINS, only validates that you have NEVER have had the Holy Spirit in your heart POURING GOD'S LOVE THERE.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keepMy commands.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Romans 5:10 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

1 John 5:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] This is how we know that we love God’s children when we love God and obey His commands.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,

1 John 2:3-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected. This is how we know we are in Him:


BEING IN HIM IS SYNONYMOUS WITH BEING SAVED OR BORN AGAIN, HAVING THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US.

The LACK OF WANTING TO REPENT, only validates that they are NOT IN HIM, and are YET to become a real Christian. Like I said before, all your works that are NOT generated by GOD's Love in your heart, are a pile of filthy rags. THEY CANNOT SAVE YOU, NOR KEEP YOUR SALVATION. ONLY JESUS CHRIST IN YOU CAN do works out that GOD GIVEN LOVE, called AGAPE.


Galatians 2:20-21 (GW)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live I live by believing in God's Son, who loved me and took the punishment for my sins.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I don't reject God's kindness. If we receive God's approval by obeying laws, then Christ's death was pointless.

It is NOT that we obey, but RATHER WHY WE OBEY, that determines if that obedience is of value to GOD. THE ONLY PURE MOTIVE FOR OBEDIENCE is to show AGAPE LOVE for HIM.

Most of us here are EVANGELICALS, no matter what Denomination we come from, so this all makes perfect sense to us, because Christ is in us, and we in HIM.


Revelation 3:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] As many as I love, I rebuke and discipline. So be committed and repent.

 

[VCO]

wrong question???? didn't think there was a wrong question? I agree with you though, a Christian will want to repent and come clean with God.

surely you believe that YOU can fall into sin and backslide? if (God forbid) you do and don't come home, like the Prodical son, is there any consequences if Christians die in the hog pen of the world away from the father?

Unfortunately, yes that is possible, but you cannot backslide out of salvation, because Jesus Christ HIMSELF is holding on to that. NOTICE THE PRODIGAL did return, repenting. One who was only pretending to be a Christian, WILL LEAVE AND NEVER RETURN, because the Holy Spirit was NEVER in that person to bring Conviction of sin, followed by repentance.

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

They put on Christianity like it was a coat, and wear it only it suites their purposes. The Inmates that I used to Minister to, have a name for that kind of Counterfeit Christianity. They will say describing one like that: "Oh don't pay any attention to that guy, he just has 'JAIL HOUSE RELIGION'. He will take it off like it was a coat, the day he paroles." Well we have a LOT of people sitting in our pews too, who only have 'JAIL HOUSE RELIGION'. Those are the ones who we see that appear to have lost the Salvation, when the truth of the matter is they NEVER HAD SALVATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

YES there are serious consequences for backsliding or sinning, but losing SALVATION is not one of them.

ONE serious one of those consequences is we start to lose spiritual Maturity. One can slide all the way back to being a spiritual INFANT again, in need of the milk of the WORD again, instead of strong meat.

Hebrews 5:12-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the basic principles of God’s revelation again. You need milk, not solid food.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Now everyone who lives on milk is inexperienced with the message about righteousness, because he is an infant.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But solid food is for the mature—for those whose senses have been trained to distinguish between good and evil.

ALSO if you are genuinely a CHRISTIAN, who is backsliding; YOU WILL GET A SERIOUS SPANKING FROM GOD.

Revelation 3:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] As many as I love, I rebuke and discipline. So be committed and repent.

Hebrews 12:5-7 (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?

If a backslider is not having a lot of problems in his life, in all likelihood, HE NEVER REALLY WAS A CHRISTIAN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

[John146]

wrong question???? didnt think there was a wrong question? I agree with you though, a Christian will want to repent and come clean with God.

surely you believe that YOU can fall into sin and backslide? if (God forbid) you do and don't come home, like the Prodical son, is there any consequences if Christians die in the hog pen of the world away from the father?

Not one time was the "prodigal son" never a son, even in the hog pen. The son squandered all of his inheritance on worldly living. If we do not go onto good works as outlined in Scripture, all of our works will be burned up, yet our eternal salvation is secure because the foundation was secure.

 

[Goodnewsman]

like I have said many times, John146 your bible must be very small because you have to throw a lot of scriptures away to believe that. (but I will say this, I hope your right. I have a cousin that is in hell tonight who died in an adulterous affair, he was saved at a young age and really loved God till him and his wife had few problems)

I've heard people use your argument before "once a son, always a son."

you said "the prodical was still a son" but Jesus said "he was dead, lost"
Luke 15:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luke 15:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

now let me ask: "is a dead son and a lost son any better off than no son at all?"

look what James say

James 5:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

please consider this next verse in light of the doctrine you preach:
Ezekiel 13:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

that's exactly what unconditional eternal security does...promises life to the wicked, so they wont return




the bible warns against the danger of false analogies and says we should "compare spiritual things to spiritual"
1 Corinthians 2:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

we better hope the metaphor you are referring to of "once your a son, your always a son" isn't true. if this is true we could never be saved in the first place. (let me explain)

Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

1 John 3:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

did you notice we were once "children of wrath" and "children of the devil"

if once born into a family we could never cease to be children of that family, then we must always be children of disobedience. (GOD FORBID)

Can a child not die? didn't God tell Adam....the son of God..."in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die"

this false security you preach was started in the garden. remember the devil telling Eve "ye shall not surely die"

Not one time was the "prodigal son" never a son, even in the hog pen. The son squandered all of his inheritance on worldly living. If we do not go onto good works as outlined in Scripture, all of our works will be burned up, yet our eternal salvation is secure because the foundation was secure.

 

[John146]

like I have said many times, John146 your bible must be very small because you have to throw a lot of scriptures away to believe that.

Actually, my Bible is larger than most because none of the verses have been removed like some.

Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Even those who were chosen before the foundation of the world? Sorry, I was on a roll.

When one does not rightly divide the word of truth, it leads to squeezing doctrine that was not meant for the Church. Again, the Church doctrine is found in Paul's epistles. Paul never eludes to one losing salvation because of the lack of works. If your doctrine is true, there's not a one of us who has any hope.

 

[Gr8grace]

Not one time was the "prodigal son" never a son, even in the hog pen. The son squandered all of his inheritance on worldly living. If we do not go onto good works as outlined in Scripture, all of our works will be burned up, yet our eternal salvation is secure because the foundation was secure.

Amen Brother. After salvation we "work" on our inheritance.

Entrance in the kingdom is by Grace alone through a one time,one shot true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen Again. And again.

 

[VCO]

like I have said many times, John146 your bible must be very small because you have to throw a lot of scriptures away to believe that. (but I will say this, I hope your right. I have a cousin that is in hell tonight who died in an adulterous affair, he was saved at a young age and really loved God till him and his wife had few problems)

I've heard people use your argument before "once a son, always a son."

you said "the prodical was still a son" but Jesus said "he was dead, lost"
Luke 15:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luke 15:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

now let me ask: "is a dead son and a lost son any better off than no son at all?"

look what James say

James 5:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

please consider this next verse in light of the doctrine you preach:
Ezekiel 13:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

that's exactly what unconditional eternal security does...promises life to the wicked, so they wont return




the bible warns against the danger of false analogies and says we should "compare spiritual things to spiritual"
1 Corinthians 2:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

we better hope the metaphor you are referring to of "once your a son, your always a son" isn't true. if this is true we could never be saved in the first place. (let me explain)

Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

1 John 3:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

did you notice we were once "children of wrath" and "children of the devil"

if once born into a family we could never cease to be children of that family, then we must always be children of disobedience. (GOD FORBID)

Can a child not die? didn't God tell Adam....the son of God..."in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die"

this false security you preach was started in the garden. remember the devil telling Eve "ye shall not surely die"

I think our differences are where each of us draws the line between what defines a REAL CHRISTIAN and what defines a Counterfeit Christian; plus we totally differ on at what point in time we draw that line. You apparently draw that line at the Second Coming, While I draw that line at the very moment HE wrote our names in the Book of Life, before the foundation of the World.

Here is why I am sure of eternal security in CHRIST, and why I think your misunderstandings are treading on very thin ice:

Mark 9:41-42 (NASB)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.
[SUP]42 [/SUP] "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.

So how do we know who is for real, and who is not a real Christian?

By their fruit you WILL KNOW THEM. And just in case you do not know, meeting real NEEDS of others, is good fruit. While, focusing on SELF only is BAD FRUIT.

 

[Goodnewsman]

I like how you gave me your generic "cant lose it" speech in response to the scriptures I posted. you didn't respond to my points at all. the whole time of course telling me i'm wrong......let me caution you guys with a scripture:

2 Peter 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

don't wrest or wrestle the scriptures, because it is to your own destruction.

Matthew 1:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

show me anywhere in the bible where Jesus came to save us IN our sins. He didn't, he came to save us FROM them.

like I have said many times, John146 your bible must be very small because you have to throw a lot of scriptures away to believe that.

Actually, my Bible is larger than most because none of the verses have been removed like some.

Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Even those who were chosen before the foundation of the world? Sorry, I was on a roll.

When one does not rightly divide the word of truth, it leads to squeezing doctrine that was not meant for the Church. Again, the Church doctrine is found in Paul's epistles. Paul never eludes to one losing salvation because of the lack of works. If your doctrine is true, there's not a one of us who has any hope.