What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?

[TruthisPower]

John's baptism was due to be replaced by the baptism commanded by Jesus: “Make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit.” (Mt 28:19) This was the only water baptism having God's approval from Pentecost, 33 C.E. forward. Some years after 33 C.E. Apollos, a zealous man, was teaching correctly about Jesus, but he had an understanding of only John's baptism. On this matter he had to be corrected, as did the disciples whom Paul met at Ephesus. These men in Ephesus had undergone John's baptism, but evidently after its valid performance had ended, since Paul's visit to Ephesus was about 20 years after the termination of the Law covenant. They were then baptized correctly in the name of Jesus and received holy spirit. Ac 18:24-26; 19:1-7. So everyone that John baptize would needed to be re-baptize in the name of Jesus which hadn't been done yet until after Pentecost 33 C.E. after Jesus death.

(Acts 18:24-26) Now a Jew named A·pol′los, a native of Alexandria, arrived in Eph′e·sus; he was an eloquent man who was well-versed in the Scriptures. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of Jehovah, and aglow with the spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things about Jesus, but he was acquainted only with the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and when Pris·cil′la and Aq′ui·la heard him, they took him into their company and explained the way of God more accurately to him.

(Acts 19:1-7) In the course of events, while A·pol′los was in Corinth, Paul went through the inland regions and came down to Eph′e·sus. There he found some disciples 2 and said to them: “Did you receive holy spirit when you became believers?” They replied to him: “Why, we have never heard that there is a holy spirit.” 3 So he said: “In what, then, were you baptized?” They said: “In John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul laid his hands on them, the holy spirit came upon them, and they began speaking in foreign languages and prophesying. 7 There were about 12 men in all.

So the evildoer that died next to Jesus would never be able to get into Heaven. Because he never recived Holy Spirit and was never baptized.

 

[Alligator]

The thread is supposed to answer what happens to an unbaptized believer. The following post is off subject, as neither PHilip nor the Eunuch are believers who didn't get baptized.



You ignore what the Bible says,
Believe on the Lord Jesus, & you shall be saved.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Of course there exists such a thing as water baptism, but it never saves anyone.
Now I challenge you to find scripture to show what happens to an unbaptized believer.

And BTW, are you claiming John 3 for baptism as a means of salvation, while at the same time claiming that the Thief on the Cross is irrelevant because he got saved before the alleged change of dispensation? So if you claim their was a different way to be saved during Christ's ministry on earth, you can't go claiming John 3 (which has no bao ptism in it anyway)

Off subject ? Go and complain to notuptome. He's the one who made the false starement. .

i don't ignore anything the Bible says. But I don't cherry pick my references either.

in actuality, there is no such thing as an un baptized believer. If one is a believer in Christ, he will do what he says without quibbling, period. By the way, I recognize your loaded question.

I assume youre referring to John 3:5. He's talking about the future kingdom/church which arrived on the day of Pentecost which was after the death of Christ. He is explaining how to get into the kingdom.

 

[TruthisPower]

Off subject ? Go and complain to notuptome. He's the one who made the false starement. .

i don't ignore anything the Bible says. But I don't cherry pick my references either.

in actuality, there is no such thing as an un baptized believer. If one is a believer in Christ, he will do what he says without quibbling, period. By the way, I recognize your loaded question.

I assume youre referring to John 3:5. He's talking about the future kingdom/church which arrived on the day of Pentecost which was after the death of Christ. He is explaining how to get into the kingdom.

What? So your saying John the Baptist, Job, Abraham, were baptize in the name of Jesus? They were believers in the seed but they were never baptized at any given point with holy spirit. So they are considered unbaptized believer. They never known who Jesus was or what he taught. Except John though but he did not get Baptized.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

what you believe does not change anything... We are buried with him in baptism...you are denying this portion of scripture... the scripture teaches the corrupt nature is cut of ..put away from us...you teach we still live in the flesh... your problem is you are living in the flesh and want to be living in the spirit at the same time...

Galatians 5:16-26King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

We are buried with him in baptism...you are denying this portion of scripture... the scripture teaches the corrupt nature is cut of ..put away from us...you teach we still live in the flesh... your problem is you are living in the flesh and want to be living in the spirit at the same time... . . . . No, I am not denying any portion of scripture - "having begun in the spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?" . . . scripture teaches that we still have that corrupt nature but we are to put it away - we are to "put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that you put on the new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness" [Eph. 4:22-24] - we put away lying, anger, corrupt communication, etc. it is a process it does not happen immediately nor automatically - For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

We mortify our members - we put on the new man which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him [Colossians 3:10] - we put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering - a transformation by the renewing of our minds - It involves growth and a day by day walk - I guess there is truth to the song - One Day at a Time Sweet Jesus.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

God does not go against His own words in Mk 16:16. But God will enforce those words on judgment day.

Mk 16:16 is easy to understand but gets twisted and distorted by those that do not like what it simply says.

BUT Mk 16:16 does not say "he that believeth and is not baptized shall not be saved" . . . . It simply says "he that believeth not shall be damned" . . . which goes along with John 3:18 - "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

 

[Alligator]

Off subject ? Go and complain to notuptome. He's the one who made the false starement. .

i don't ignore anything the Bible says. But I don't cherry pick my references either.

in actuality, there is no such thing as an un baptized believer. If one is a believer in Christ, he will do what he says without quibbling, period. By the way, I recognize your loaded question.

I assume youre referring to John 3:5. He's talking about the future kingdom/church which arrived on the day of Pentecost which was after the death of Christ. He is explaining how to get into the kingdom.

What? So your saying John the Baptist, Job, Abraham, were baptize in the name of Jesus? They were believers in the seed but they were never baptized at any given point with holy spirit. So they are considered unbaptized believer. They never known who Jesus was or what he taught. Except John though but he did not get Baptized.

Of course, I was not talking about Abraham, Job and others who lived in a different dispensation. They were nevere commanded to be baprzed just as we are not commanded to offer animal sacrifices.

 

[notuptome]

Acts 8:38Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.



Matthew 3:11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with

And so you just continue to ignore what the bible says? In both of the verses above WATER is specifically mentioned. Guess what the word is BAPTIZO. Your claim, once again is false.

You conveniently ignore context. Water and Holy Spirit are being contrasted. They are not used interchangeably. Your malicious use of these scriptures is why there is so much confusion in the church today. Water baptism does not nor can it save. Holy Spirit baptism is the only baptism required to be saved. Holy Spirit baptism always precedes water baptism. Holy Spirit baptism is administered by God while water baptism is administered by men. One is eternal and the other is temporal.

Why do you remain purposely ignorant of Gods truth? John 3:18-21

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Did Jesus command baptism ? Yes he did in Matthew 28 and Mark 16.

Did the apostle's baptize people in water while Jesus was here, and after Jesus die on the cross ? Yes and Yes.

Most religions of the world baptize. Does this mean that they are saved? If you are depending on your water baptism to save you then you have good reason to be concerned.

Why is it that religious folks are so quick to push grace aside and run to works, rituals and laws? Only God could secure salvation for sinful men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[newbirth]

No ref to baptism.
The physical birth is a birth from water in the womb.
The Holy Spirit produces a new birth.

Do you agree with the guy who ruled out the Thief on the Cross as significant on the grounds that the Thief's salvation occured before the change in dispensation, and that after the cross the way to be saved changed? If you do, then you should not quote John 3:5 on salvation.

.....you cannot be reborn physically from the womb. It is very foolish for one to think that is part of your new spiritual birth....born again must be of water and spirit....Christ did it to show the pattern, water at the hands of John and spirit from the Father.....

 

[newbirth]

We are buried with him in baptism...you are denying this portion of scripture... the scripture teaches the corrupt nature is cut of ..put away from us...you teach we still live in the flesh... your problem is you are living in the flesh and want to be living in the spirit at the same time... . . . . No, I am not denying any portion of scripture - "having begun in the spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?" . . . scripture teaches that we still have that corrupt nature but we are to put it away - we are to "put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that you put on the new man which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness" [Eph. 4:22-24] - we put away lying, anger, corrupt communication, etc. it is a process it does not happen immediately nor automatically - For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

We mortify our members - we put on the new man which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him [Colossians 3:10] - we put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering - a transformation by the renewing of our minds - It involves growth and a day by day walk - I guess there is truth to the song - One Day at a Time Sweet Jesus.

scripture teaches the corrupt nature is present because of the flesh but God gave us power over it because of the spirit...so what is the excuse? If you continue in the flesh it is because of either ignorance or disobedience....If you are born of the spirit then walk in the spirit...where does scripture teach we have have that corrupt nature?...If you put it away how come you still have it? That means you did not put it away....

 

[newbirth]

BUT Mk 16:16 does not say "he that believeth and is not baptized shall not be saved" . . . . It simply says "he that believeth not shall be damned" . . . which goes along with John 3:18 - "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

if you eat of the fruit you will not surly die...if you believe in him then you will be baptised ...if you don't believe in him why would you be baptised in his name?

 

[newbirth]

Most religions of the world baptize. Does this mean that they are saved? If you are depending on your water baptism to save you then you have good reason to be concerned.

Why is it that religious folks are so quick to push grace aside and run to works, rituals and laws? Only God could secure salvation for sinful men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

baptism is but one work of faith in the walk with Christ ...and you know we are saved by grace through faith...but you frustrate the grace of God because in every good work you are reprobate

 

[Alligator]

Acts 8:38Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.



Matthew 3:11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with

And so you just continue to ignore what the bible says? In both of the verses above WATER is specifically mentioned. Guess what the word is BAPTIZO. Your claim, once again is false.

You conveniently ignore context. Water and Holy Spirit are being contrasted. They are not used interchangeably. Your malicious use of these scriptures is why there is so much confusion in the church today. Water baptism does not nor can it save. Holy Spirit baptism is the only baptism required to be saved. Holy Spirit baptism always precedes water baptism. Holy Spirit baptism is administered by God while water baptism is administered by men. One is eternal and the other is temporal.

Why do you remain purposely ignorant of Gods truth? John 3:18-21

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The only thing malicious going on here is your deliberate misuse of the word baptizo. You claim it is never used for water baptism and I just showed you that it is. If you like, I can show you more scriptures where BAPTIZO is used for water baptism.

Before I called someone purposely ignorant of the truth, you should take
a good long look in the mirrow. You talk a lot, but seldom do you back up what you say.

You cannot show me one single verse that says Holy Spirit baptism is for believers today. It was given to the apostles on the day of Pentecost and to Cornelius and his household, and that's it.

 

[notuptome]

The only thing malicious going on here is your deliberate misuse of the word baptizo. You claim it is never used for water baptism and I just showed you that it is. If you like, I can show you more scriptures where BAPTIZO is used for water baptism.

Before I called someone purposely ignorant of the truth, you should take
a good long look in the mirrow. You talk a lot, but seldom do you back up what you say.

You cannot show me one single verse that says Holy Spirit baptism is for believers today. It was given to the apostles on the day of Pentecost and to Cornelius and his household, and that's it.

Without the Holy Spirit you cannot be saved. Paul says that we were quickened the moment we were saved. We who were dead spiritually because of sin were made alive by the Holy Spirit the moment we believed and received the gift of salvation. Eph 2.

Pentecost was not a baptism of the Holy Spirit but a filling with the power promised by Christ. The baptism that resulted in their conversion was in John 20 where Christ breathed on them and said receive ye the Holy Spirit.

Water baptism will not save you. Only the grace of God can save you.

All this debate over water baptism is just a smoke screen to obscure the real problem. Jesus gave the Comforter to us who believe in Him. the Comforter is the Holy Spirit Who gives power to serve Christ and Who guides believers into the truth in Gods word.

Again John 3:18-21 Pretty well describes those who seeing the truth turn from it. No excuses just an evil heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

baptism is but one work of faith in the walk with Christ ...and you know we are saved by grace through faith...but you frustrate the grace of God because in every good work you are reprobate

Do you also deny the Holy Spirit?

I do not have a problem with water baptism only when water baptism is made essential to salvation. Gods grace is completely sufficient to save. The blood of Christ is completely sufficient to atone for sin. All I can do is receive what God has provided for me. The branch bears the fruit it does not produce the fruit. The Vine produces the fruit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

scripture teaches the corrupt nature is present because of the flesh but God gave us power over it because of the spirit...so what is the excuse? If you continue in the flesh it is because of either ignorance or disobedience....If you are born of the spirit then walk in the spirit...where does scripture teach we have have that corrupt nature?...If you put it away how come you still have it? That means you did not put it away....

I have no excuse when I fail - it is ME O LORD!

I am in a relationship with God - My walk will fluctuate - one day may be better than others. One day I will do very good in submitting to the new man created in me [walking by the Spirit] and one day I may start out great but then falter or one day I may not succeed at all - Galatians 5:16,17 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would. - I fight the fight, I run the race - I may get knocked down, I may stumble and fall down - but I get right back up and continue on!

If it was as easy as you say it is then God wouldn't have scripture instructing us how to mortify the deeds of the flesh, to put off the old man, put on the new man these are instructions for us so therefore HE must have known that at times we would fail and also lest we forget - 1 John 1:9.

where does scripture teach we have have that corrupt nature? Galatians 2:20 - 3:3 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? having begun in the spirit are you now made perfect by the flesh?

[Romans 7:18-20] Romans 7:22-25 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God but with the flesh the law of sin. . . . .

Of course, our choice is to walk by the Spirit - that is our heart's desire - but it ain't always easy and if it is for you - then Hallelujah! Praise God . . .

But I'm not there yet.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

if you eat of the fruit you will not surly die...if you believe in him then you will be baptised ...if you don't believe in him why would you be baptised in his name?

Just to set the record straight - I have been baptized in water - but the "water" did not save me. My faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord, my faith in the fact that God raised him from the dead - that is what saved me and that is how I was baptized with the baptism of living water - I drank from the "water" that Jesus Christ offers - I was born again of the Spirit - I am now a child of God - the "water" I was dunked in did not do that.

 

[Atwood]

The thread continues with a failure on the part of anyone to come up with a passage which proclaims damnation to an unbaptized believer.

Pentecost was not a baptism of the Holy Spirit but a filling with the power promised by Christ. The baptism that resulted in their conversion was in John 20 where Christ breathed on them and said receive ye the Holy Spirit.

I'm glad it is Not Up to Me, NotUpToMe.

Christ's disciples already believed in Him long before John 20. John 20 mentions no baptism. Receiving the spirit for indwelling is not the Baptism which puts one into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13). The Church was not formed in John 20, but in Acts 2. And the John 20 thing appears limited to a few men, like apostles.

Pentecost was the Baptism of the Spirit, the birthday of the Church, though filling is mentioned in Acts 2; and filling is not the same as baptizing, though on that occasion they happened together. Acts 1 tells us that the Baptism of the Spirit was yet future and "not many days" hence = Pentecost.

[/quote]All this debate over water baptism is just a smoke screen to obscure the real problem.[/quote]

There is a smoke screen, IMHO. The smoke screen is that the insistence on water-baptism smoke screens the real problem, failure to trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior, bringing in human works. It also involves denying the validity of God's promises over & over in scripture where belief/faith alone brings salvation & justification. The smoke screen also seems to obscure a basic problem of writing off the Lord Jesus as Savior, demoting Him to a mere chance-giver.

Anyone reading this who has demoted Christ to mere chance-giver, is urged to trust Christ as only & sufficient Savior today.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

The Thread continues without anyone posting any verse that says unbaptized believers persons are damned.

The only thing malicious going on here is your deliberate misuse of the word baptizo. You claim it is never used for water baptism and I just showed you that it is. If you like, I can show you more scriptures where BAPTIZO is used for water baptism.

I have seen no denial of water baptism.
I have seen no quotation of scripture where an unbaptized believer is damned.

Here is what you yourself backquoted:

Holy Spirit baptism is the only baptism required to be saved. Holy Spirit baptism always precedes water baptism.

Alligator saith:

You cannot show me one single verse that says Holy Spirit baptism is for believers today. It was given to the apostles on the day of Pentecost and to Cornelius and his household, and that's it.

Try 1 Cor 12:10-15.

1 Cor is addressed to believers today: "Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 to the church of God which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place"

Can you show one single verse that says Water baptism is for believers today?

The scripture given to the Church is for the Church Age. You may as well ask where is "Thou shalt not murder" given to believers today? So then what if someone demand of you to show that Water Baptism is for believers today? And how do you know that Acts 2:38 was given to anyone but those standing there on Pentecost? So where is anything in the Bible addressed to persons living in the 21st century? Can you give one verse that says water baptism is for the year 2014?

So then if you are going to throw out all the passages on baptism on the grounds that none of it is said to be for today, you have no doctrine of water baptism is essential for salvation.

 

[notuptome]

I'm glad it is Not Up to Me, NotUpToMe.

Christ's disciples already believed in Him long before John 20. John 20 mentions no baptism. Receiving the spirit for indwelling is not the Baptism which puts one into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13). The Church was not formed in John 20, but in Acts 2. And the John 20 thing appears limited to a few men, like apostles.

Pentecost was the Baptism of the Spirit, the birthday of the Church, though filling is mentioned in Acts 2; and filling is not the same as baptizing, though on that occasion they happened together. Acts 1 tells us that the Baptism of the Spirit was yet future and "not many days" hence = Pentecost.

Pentecost was a filling and the Greek confirms the premise. Acts 2:4 In Acts 2:38 there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit for those who received the message that Peter brought that day. Acts 2:37 shows the ministry of the Holy Spirit pricking their hearts at the preaching of Christ.

The common association of Holy Spirit baptism with tongues is wrong. When believers were filled with the Holy Spirit the evidence was in the appearance of tongues. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was when they believed unto salvation which occurred before they were filled with power.

To deny the Holy Spirit baptism at salvation is to deny the power of God to save. The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to convict of sin, to convict of Christ's righteousness and to convict of Gods judgment upon sin. To say it does not occur is to deny the power of the gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger