Which laws are and are not valid?

[passing_through]

You Gentiles, who was never under law, and who want to become Jew, but are not, did you not hear Paul when he said that we have been delivered from the law. Now of the Jews Paul says neither we we able to keep the law nor our fathers. Why would you all want to become in bondage to the law and rather not live in Christ. You all don't know what you seek, I want liberty and freedom in Christ. Y'all need to grow up in the faith and be men nor little boys with y'alls marbles.

 

[JaumeJ]

All who worship the Living God are Jews by translation; there is no avoiding it.

Did not the Good Shepherd teach that He had another flock, and He was going to gather it to His original flock? What is gathered to something becomes part of it.

Does not Paul teach that faith establishes the law? What is established is not destroyed.

Does not Jesus Christ teach the law will not be abolished while there is an earth, moon and sun?

Paul teaches we belong to Jesus Christ, not to Paul, therefor when anyone encounters confilict in the teaching from others, including from Paul, and Jesus has already pronounced on the subject we listen to Him. Paul should be in agreement with Jesus Christ on all counts. I believe he is, so listen and learn from Jesus Christ when Paul casts confusion on any given subject Jesus has taught clearly on.

It seems those who quote Paul first are confused and do not yet know Jesusw Christ. Of course Jesus Christ does ask if when He returns will He find faith.. Beware of ignorning the Lord, our Savior for He came to give us the Good News, no one else.

You Gentiles, who was never under law, and who want to become Jew, but are not, did you not hear Paul when he said that we have been delivered from the law. Now of the Jews Paul says neither we we able to keep the law nor our fathers. Why would you all want to become in bondage to the law and rather not live in Christ. You all don't know what you seek, I want liberty and freedom in Christ. Y'all need to grow up in the faith and be men nor little boys with y'alls marbles.

 

[Kaycie]

ALL authority in heaven and on earth was given to Christ (Matthew 28:18), so that leaves no authority for Moses or anyone else. Christ then commanded the apostles to teach us all that He commanded them to. So the apostle letters (New Testament) tells us what the new laws are. Some laws from the Old Testament (or the essence of them) Christ reinstated, some He did not.

 

[JaumeJ]

Moses never had any authority other than what was given him while he walked this earth.

He was given the law by God. Jesus Chrisst is God, or do folks believe Isaiah was wrong when he said the child would be call Everylasting Father, the Almighty God, Prince of Peace, Counselor, Comforter and more=

Was Jesus mistaken when He taught all that the law will never change as long as there is earth, moon, and sun.

Believe Jesus, as you have claimed. He does not lie. Any who teach againsst the least of the laws will be leasst in heaven, Now that will be an eternal condition, and I do not want this for anyone. Praise God, amen.

ALL authority in heaven and on earth was given to Christ (Matthew 28:18), so that leaves no authority for Moses or anyone else. Christ then commanded the apostles to teach us all that He commanded them to. So the apostle letters (New Testament) tells us what the new laws are. Some laws from the Old Testament (or the essence of them) Christ reinstated, some He did not.

 

[michael56]

If all the ot law is still applicable then burnt offerings must be made for sins. As you say, not one jot or title.... But it is added till all is accomplished. Jesus said. It is finished. The heart of the law remains, the legalistic law is finished for the truly born again believer

 

[Elin]

Does that include the 'Ten Commandments' ? They no longer apply ?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

" For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

And fulfill it he did. . .

both accomplishing its purpose and finishing it as the means of justification/righteousness,
fulfilling all of the law in the law of Christ (Mt 22:40; Gal 6:2) which is the law of God (1Co 9:21),
changing the priesthood and, therefore, the law which was based on the priesthood (Heb 7:11-12),
thereby making obsolete the old covenant which was based on the law (Heb 8:13), which was
set aside because it was weak and useless (unprofitable) to make perfect (Heb 7:18-19),
abolishing it in Christ's flesh on the cross as that which caused the enmity between Jew and Gentile,
thereby reconciling them to each other, as well as both of them to God (Eph 2:13-16), and
replacing it with his new covenant (Lk 22:20) law (Mt 22:37-40) written on the minds and in the hearts
of his people (Jer 31:33) rather than on tablets of stone.

All of God's law is now contained in the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10; Jas 2:8;
1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2).
We are now sanctified by the Holy Spirit through the obedience of faith to Christ's law.

This is the word of God.

 

[just-me]

If all the ot law is still applicable then burnt offerings must be made for sins. As you say, not one jot or title.... But it is added till all is accomplished. Jesus said. It is finished. The heart of the law remains, the legalistic law is finished for the truly born again believer

Most Christians seem to forget that without the first covenant, the second one is impossible. The writer of Hebrews will quote Jeremiah 31:31-34 nine times throughout this letter, indicating that the new covenant is a contingency triggered by, and deriving authority from, the first covenant. God declared that the covenant He made with Israel was good; it was to bring life, but the people of Israel chose to willfully break this covenant and treat it as a vain thing.

And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.
For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it. (Deuteronomy 32:46-47)

God didn't drop the standard of the law's instructions because Israel chose disobedience; rather, He installed a new covenant (renewed) to write the law on our hearts through the work of the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus Christ. The fact of the matter is that through Christ Jesus, God raised the bar, and through Christ, He magnified the Torah.

“The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.” (Isaiah 42:21)

“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:13)

Because man broke the old covenant, God requires complete renovation on our part, not His part of both the old and the new. Hebrews 8:13 in its twisted form teaches that the instructions of God that are within the law have now decayed and have disappeared, but nothing could be further from the truth when we incorporate in context Ephesians 4:24 and Colossians 3:10. “And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”

We are called to reject all false religion and doctrine that makes void the Torah (instruction in righteousness) according to the old man's sinful predisposition and live in the new man who delights in God's everlasting unchangeable word and Messiah our Lord and Savior.

 

[Elin]

Mat 5:19
So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom from heaven.
But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom from heaven

Agreed. . .

The least of them are now fulfilled (Mt 22:40) in the new covenant (Lk 22:20)
law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8).

 

[Elin]

All who worship the Living God are Jews by translation; there is no avoiding it.

In Gal 3:28, it is avoided in the words spoken by the Son in these last days through the NT writers, which the NT places above the words formerly spoken by those who were only prophets (Heb 1:1-2).

Did not the Good Shepherd teach that He had another flock, and He was going to gather it to His original flock?
What is gathered to something becomes part of it.

Yes, both are the one olive tree, which is the body of Christ.

Does not Paul teach that faith establishes the law? What is established is not destroyed.

Yes, the Decalogue is not destroyed, but established on its right basis, as

subject to the law of grace, and fulfilled in Christ's law of Mt 22:37-40,
where Christ's law it is not the means of justification/righteousness,
which is only by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Eph 2:8-9), and not by law keeping,
but is the means of sanctification/righteousness by the Holy Spirit through the obedience of faith.

Does not Jesus Christ teach the law will not be abolished while there is an earth, moon and sun?

He teaches that the law will not pass away until it has been fulfilled,
which it has been, in and by him, and being finished by him has been replaced
with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21).

Paul teaches we belong to Jesus Christ, not to Paul, therefor when anyone encounters
confilict in the teaching from others, including from Paul, and Jesus has already pronounced on the subject we listen to Him

There is never any conflict between the word of God from Paul and the word of God from Jesus Christ,
for they are the word of God, and God does not contradict himself.

Any alleged "conflict," therefore, can be due only to misunderstanding of God's word.
Those who see conflict in God's word written are in no position to be presenting what they do not understand.

Paul should be in agreement with Jesus Christ on all counts. I believe he is,

In which case, you should never object to anything he presents, nor set it against anything else in the NT.
So why do you?
Thy speech doth betray thee.

It seems those who quote Paul first are confused and do not yet know Jesusw Christ

And it is fact that those who set Paul against Jesus Christ understand neither one of them,
and are in no position to be presenting either of them.

Of course Jesus Christ does ask if when He returns will He find faith.. Beware of ignorning the Lord,
our Savior for He came to give us the Good News, no one else.

Sorry. . .he sent the apostles and the church to do the same, just as he was sent to do.

Please. . .submit yourself to the study of the NT word of God written that your personal impressions may be correctly formed.

You are much too intelligent to be trafficking in this mish-mash of NT truth.

 

[weakness]

Jesus said that on two commandments hang all the law. Thou shall love the lord God with every thing you are and have, and love your neighbor as your self. The law now is not written in stone , but in Our hearts. And through the Holy Spirit , we are a law unto ourselves ,living and being guided by Christ. Love fulfills the law.

 

[Elin]

Moses never had any authority other than what was given him while he walked this earth. . .

Was Jesus mistaken when He taught all that the law will never change as long as there is earth, moon, and sun.

Jesus taught that the law would not pass away until it was fulfilled, which he has done
and, therefore, replaced it with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21).

Believe Jesus, as you have claimed. He does not lie.

Believe the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
they do not lie.

Any who teach againsst the least of the laws will be leasst in heaven,

The least are fulfilled in the law of Christ (Mt 22:40).

Not to worry. . .so relax. . .in the freedom of Christ.
You are free from the yoke of slavery/bondage (Gal 5:1).

 

[JaumeJ]

Everything you have passed on as scriptural is cultist dogma. You say the sheep are now the boad of Christ, true, but you are neglecting the fact that Jesus Christ walked the earth as a Jew, and lived as teh ranslation of Judah, as do all who believe.

It seems when anyone, when I, forward teh teachings of Jesus Christ, some come along using texts from letters of Paul to refute the teachings of Jesus Christ. Do not pit Paul against Jesus, for paul, himself, teaches against this practice. We belong to Jesus. He is the teacher, and all who hear Him, obey Him.

As for the law of Christ, I only know that he gave a new law to His disciples, and to us, and that is that we love each other. You see previous to His arrival, there was no Body of Christ to address. All who believe HIm are now members of His Body,.

If peoñle have a burning passion to believe Paul in perverting his intent, then may the burn in their passion. The aim of all who are saved by the blessed Blood of the Lamb of God will always learn of God, for we are invited to do such.

No other man ever incarnated has ever known the Word perfectly other than the Word, Himsalef. Paul was learned, but just as all present, he was not perfect in knowledge of the Word.

God teachees each member of the Body of Jesus by His own Holy Spirit. Sometimes He uses His children to teach other children, but no flesh is to be trusted. We trust God, and Jesus Christ is God.

 

[JaumeJ]

If you are saying love obeys the law, then I am completely in accord with you,. I have studied the law, and the law has been my turot, but the laws on fulfilling the laws of love are constandtly reminding me of good conduct. No one will ever be prfected before God's time, on His Great Day, but everyone who loves Jesus Christ is obedient to His will. Jesus is God, amen.

Jesus said that on two commandments hang all the law. Thou shall love the lord God with every thing you are and have, and love your neighbor as your self. The law now is not written in stone , but in Our hearts. And through the Holy Spirit , we are a law unto ourselves ,living and being guided by Christ. Love fulfills the law.

 

[JaumeJ]

Please study more what Jesus teaches. He did not teach the law was to be abolished. He has shown by HJis example and teaching just how the law is to be dealt with lawfully, with mercy and grace.

Jesus taught that the law would not pass away until it was fulfilled, which he has done
and, therefore, replaced it with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21).


Believe the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
they do not lie.


The least are fulfilled in the law of Christ (Mt 22:40).

Not to worry. . .so relax. . .in the freedom of Christ.
You are free from the yoke of slavery/bondage (Gal 5:1).

 

[just-me]

Jesus said that on two commandments hang all the law. Thou shall love the lord God with every thing you are and have, and love your neighbor as your self. The law now is not written in stone , but in Our hearts. And through the Holy Spirit , we are a law unto ourselves ,living and being guided by Christ. Love fulfills the law.

You are correct in that the law is written on our hearts as we believe in the truth found in Christ. The words haven't change however.

 

[just-me]

Jesus taught that the law would not pass away until it was fulfilled, which he has done
and, therefore, replaced it with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21).


Believe the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
they do not lie.


The least are fulfilled in the law of Christ (Mt 22:40).

Not to worry. . .so relax. . .in the freedom of Christ.
You are free from the yoke of slavery/bondage (Gal 5:1).

The original heaven and earth are still in existence. Don't bypass that logic.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18

"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17

When this earth vanishes, then you will be right.

 

[Pumicestone]

.... This is the word of God.

Nopey. I regret that this is the word of Elin !


What Y'shua is reported to have said is crystal clear.

" whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom from heaven"

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

" For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."


All the rest, however well-intended, is twisting things to suit what we would like Him to have said.

 

[JaumeJ]

Many are caught up with cultist dogma of mankind, not hearing the plain words of our Salvation on this subject. Even with the words right in front of them, they do not see. How many times, you know, I have copied and pasted Christs's words, as have you, and many come back with dead eyes not having understood a thing. The grammar utilized in this teaching does not allow for error, yet, many are in erro. God have mercy. God bless all in Jesus Christ., amen.

The original heaven and earth are still in existence. Don't bypass that logic.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18

"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17

When this earth vanishes, then you will be right.

 

[Elin]

Most Christians seem to forget that without the first covenant, the second one is impossible.

Baloney. . .nothing is impossible with God.

First of all, the first covenant is the Abrahamic covenant, which is fulfilled in the new covenant.
The Mosaic (old) covenant was a temporary addition (Gal 3:19) to the Abrahamic covenant of
Promise (Christ), given to reveal sin and its penalty, as well as the holiness of God.

The writer of Hebrews will quote Jeremiah 31:31-34 nine times throughout this letter, indicating that the new covenant is a contingency triggered by, and deriving authority from, the first covenant. God declared that the covenant He made with Israel was good;
it was to bring life, but the people of Israel chose to willfully break this covenant and treat it as a vain thing.

God gave the Mosaic covenant to reveal sin and its penalty, not to give eternal life.

If he gave it for eternal life, then he made a false offer, because it is impossible for man to
obtain eternal life through the righteousness of law keeping (Gal 3:10), and that for two reasons:
righteousness is only by faith (Ge 15:6), and
it is impossible for man to keep the law perfectly (Gal 3:10).

And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.
For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing
ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it. (Deuteronomy 32:46-47)

Yes, long life was one of the physical blessings of obedience.

God didn't drop the standard of the law's instructions because Israel chose disobedience; rather,
He installed a new covenant (renewed)

Nope. . .the Greek word is kainos (new), meaning newly made, of different nature,

the Greek word is not neos (new), meaning reproduction of the old in quality and character,

nor is it anakainoo (renewed).

The new covenant is the fulfillment of the first covenant, the Abrahamic Covenant of Promise (Christ).

Do you ever stop mish-mashing God's word written?

to write the law on our hearts through the work of the Holy Spirit, according to Jesus Christ. The fact of the matter is that through Christ Jesus, God raised the bar, and through Christ, He magnified the Torah.

The law written on our hearts is the new covenant (Lk 22:20) law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40), which fulfills everything.

“The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.” (Isaiah 42:21)

“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made (past tense) the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.” (Hebrews 8:13)

The definition of "old" (gerasko) is given in the verse--"to decay and wax old."

It has been done (past tense).

Because man broke the old covenant, God requires complete renovation on our part, not His part of both the old and the new. Hebrews 8:13 in its twisted form teaches that the instructions of God that are within the law have now decayed and have disappeared,

Nope. . .Heb 8:13 teaches that the Mosaic (Old) Covenant is obsolete, having been made so when
God changed the priesthood on which the law was based (Heb 7:11),
because the covenant was based on the law,
which law was based on the priesthood (Heb 7:11),
which priesthood was changed (Heb 7:12),
setting aside the Levitical priesthood, and establishing a new eternal priesthood (Heb 7:17, 21).

but nothing could be further from the truth when we incorporate in context Ephesians 4:24 and Colossians 3:10. “And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”

We are called to reject all false religion and doctrine that makes void the Torah (instruction in righteousness) according to the old man's sinful predisposition and live in the new man who delights in God's everlasting unchangeable word and Messiah our Lord and Savior.

According to the NT word of God, we are simply called to obey the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40).

 

[just-me]

Many are caught up with cultist dogma of mankind, not hearing the plain words of our Salvation on this subject. Even with the words right in front of them, they do not see. How many times, you know, I have copied and pasted Christs's words, as have you, and many come back with dead eyes not having understood a thing. The grammar utilized in this teaching does not allow for error, yet, many are in erro. God have mercy. God bless all in Jesus Christ., amen.

It's so nice to see God fearing people such as yourself abide by this exhortation.

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 1:3