Why does God oppose Judaizing?

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Jan 25, 2015
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All I was saying is , it is the same argument I had to listen to when speaking with atheists before...
 
Jun 10, 2019
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The thing about trying to keep the sabbath some Christians may work Monday through Friday 40 hour week have plenty of time to choose Saturday or Sunday as their rest day. some might have to work Thursday through Monday some work six or seven days because they have to earn a living. this world today runs 24/7.

people who preach sabbath keeping are probably working Monday through Friday or not at all retired or something. it’s unrealistic in a world people sometimes have no choice but to work a schedule that may have them working the weekend. it’s a dog eat dog world if your not working it can be a hard life.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
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Texas
I guess my question for the title question is; why would God want to see a person abandon grace for the law, when by grace we are saved and by the law we are condemned?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I guess my question for the title question is; why would God want to see a person abandon grace for the law, when by grace we are saved and by the law we are condemned?
Some people can't handle the uncertainty of grace; they prefer the "certainty" of Law. They would rather "be in control" and follow rules than believe they are loved and accepted and live by the Spirit.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I guess my question for the title question is; why would God want to see a person abandon grace for the law, when by grace we are saved and by the law we are condemned?
that is something you will have to ask the judeaizers, the 2 on this thread push Law to the moon..
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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I would offer in a hope of adding .

Feasts of God as ceremonial as a outward show or sign to the world . . the working of a invisible God

Feasts of God as ceremonial shadows came to a end at the time of reformation. All but the ongoing ceremony that was performed when a new priest had a desire to become a member of the kingdom of priests had been fulfilled.

But one new ceremonial shadow of a wedding feast that will come on the last day. this is when the vail is lifted . The Sun and the noon no longer used . The unveiling of the glory of God and the lamb as the light. No more darkness forever more. (Revelation 21)

Under the old order of Kings. (a pagan foundation). Jewish woman were not allowed to participate during show time. A ceremonial representation of the glory unseen . A high wall separated them. And another high wall separated the gentiles . The new testament order to reflect the reformation elevated a woman and the gentiles to a place of great blessing. The new shadow as sign to the messengers of truth, angels is shown in 1 Corinthians 11..

It is two fold in effect. . in two ways. One way, to reveal a picture of the new bride and her husband Christ .

Man as a sign to the world is to not cover his head . He is used to represent the true head our Good Master not seen. His head or hair must not be covered . Man is a presentative glory of God not seen. The ceremony, a picture of mankind as one creation. Not like other beast of the field. Male and female he made them . .

While the woman must cover her hair . She is signified as the glory of man. Her hair must be covered or shaven off .It is used in a old testament ceremonial law used to represent unbelief.

She was not left without a glory of her own. Together as one man and woman they are used to represent the hidden glory of God. Either one that does not follow the law cancels out the whole show.

The veil or shadow will be lifted up and the promised wedding supper signified by bread and the blood of grapes will consummate the finished work of Christ.
You're a Reformed Christian then?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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I am with Him actually since he states in the OT we should choose


I have noticed that people in error will throw out verses or post some cute sounding something to seem to be 'above it all'

and this while sending people to non Christian sites that are obviously where you received your instruction that a person is only saved if they obey the law

that is not what scripture teaches but you go ahead and try to follow the impossible

you will be the first person in the history of the world to be able to say you are your own savior :rolleyes:
I think the level you're now plummeting to is tragic. The false witness you're resorting to now is not only transparent but evident through the written record of my posts that prove your lack of truth and as such credibility. As to the "own savior" slur, false witness coupled with blasphemy is the weapon of cowards.
I've noticed people who don't study the scriptures but hunt for excerpts from sources so as to refute those who do, and fail in the effort when the debate extends unto what they're not able to Google, turn vicious and as such the facade having fallen away the lack of grace appears outstanding.
God save you.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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if you would read my remark correctly you would know very well when I said he would not stone anyone those are my words not his.

If I did at this point I wouldn’t tell, later
I've read your remarks repeatedly and correctly. The reason I ask for proof of what you claim the pastor stated in his video? Is because as you are unaware, YouTube often provides Transcripts with videos. As is the case with his. There is no such thing as you claim in his presentation. And now you're rewording in this later post what you stated initially about stoning. That happens when what you claim isn't actually there. It is difficult to keep up the false witness when the truth does not need someone to work to recall it.
Cheers.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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The thing about trying to keep the sabbath some Christians may work Monday through Friday 40 hour week have plenty of time to choose Saturday or Sunday as their rest day. some might have to work Thursday through Monday some work six or seven days because they have to earn a living. this world today runs 24/7.

people who preach sabbath keeping are probably working Monday through Friday or not at all retired or something. it’s unrealistic in a world people sometimes have no choice but to work a schedule that may have them working the weekend. it’s a dog eat dog world if your not working it can be a hard life.
This is so funny… we need to stop making bad excuses not to be obedient. My wife worked 6 days a week (including the Sabbath) and we prayed to God change that. God opened doors and she is now fulltime in charity work (no Sabbath work anymore)… it didn’t happen overnight but God came through in His time. We need to trust God to guide us in life and open doors.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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I think the level you're now plummeting to is tragic. The false witness you're resorting to now is not only transparent but evident through the written record of my posts that prove your lack of truth and as such credibility. As to the "own savior" slur, false witness coupled with blasphemy is the weapon of cowards.
I've noticed people who don't study the scriptures but hunt for excerpts from sources so as to refute those who do, and fail in the effort when the debate extends unto what they're not able to Google, turn vicious and as such the facade having fallen away the lack of grace appears outstanding.
God save you.
Transcript:
Was the Sabbath abolished or done away with?
Was the Sabbath changed to Sunday?
Is the Sabbath any day we choose?
Is Jesus our Sabbath now?
Is the Sabbath only for the Jews?
It's time to UNLEARN the lies.
UNLEARN
Hey, welcome to UNLEARN.
My name is Lex, and I'd like to invite you to join us each week as we UNLEARN the lies
and dig deeper into the truth of God's Word.
Now, let's get started.
We see in Genesis that God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh, and
when the 10 Commandments were given on Mount Sinai, God said,
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD
your God.
On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or
female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in
them, but he rested on the seventh day.
Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.”
- Exodus 20:9-11
God said, “remember the Sabbath” and then He reminded us of Creation saying that He
created the heavens and earth in six days and rested on the seventh.
I think it’s very interesting that God explained the Sabbath in this way by linking the Sabbath
to creation.
What this tells me is that when we remember the Sabbath and keep it holy, we are identifying
with the God of creation.
I heard someone once say, “don’t tell me which God you serve, show me by which commandments
you keep.”
For example, the Babylonians celebrated their holy days on the 7th, 14th, 21st, and 28th
days of the month based on the new moon.
This Lunar Sabbath system is different from the Biblical Sabbath, because it doesn’t
follow a continuous seven day cycle.
Each lunar month would have 29 or 30 days, which allowed for three seven-day weeks, and
a final week of nine or ten days, which breaks the continuous seven-day cycle.
Likewise, Buddhism follows a similar cycle that’s based on the new moon, but is slightly
different.
They celebrate on the new moon, full moon, and the two quarter moons in between.
Muslims also have a weekly set-apart day, and they gather together on Friday for congregational
prayers.
I find it interesting that God said “remember the Sabbath”, but out of the Ten Commandments
that’s the one most Christians have forgotten about.
They say things like, “the Sabbath was abolished”, or “it was changed to Sunday”, or “we
can keep any day we want as long as we keep a Sabbath”, and some say “Jesus is our
Sabbath now”, or “the Sabbath is only for the Jews.”
I want to look at these common objections that people give concerning the Sabbath and
see if they line up with the Bible.
1.
Was the Sabbath abolished or done away with?
Listen to what Yeshua said about thinking that He came to abolish the Law.
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to abolish but to make full.
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will
by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so,
shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall
be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
- Matthew 5:17-19
Our Messiah told us not to even think that He came to abolish the Law, then He went on
to explain that if we break even the least important commandment in the Law and teach
others to do the same, we will be considered the least in the kingdom of God.
I would argue that the Sabbath is not the least important commandment.
In fact, it’s one of the most important commandments concerning our worship of God,
and breaking the Sabbath was punishable by death.
“You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.
Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it,
that person shall be cut off from among his people.
Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord.
Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”
- Exodus 31:14-15
Yeshua said not to even think that He came to abolish the Law, not even the least important
commandment.
If we want to obey our Messiah, then we can’t even think that the Sabbath was abolished.
2.
Was the Sabbath changed to Sunday?
There is not even a single verse in the entire Bible that tells us the Sabbath was changed
from the seventh day of the week to the first day of the week.
However, some Christians cite Acts 20 verse 7 when Paul spoke to the disciples on the
first day of the week.
“Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread,
Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.“
- Acts 20:7
Notice this says nothing about changing the Sabbath to Sunday, and also notice that it’s
not commanded that we have gatherings on the first day of the week.
To conclude that they had replaced the Sabbath with Sunday based on this verse is a very
weak argument, because the disciples gathered together regularly to break bread.
In fact, the Bible tells us they met daily to break bread.
“So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house
to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart”
- Acts 2:26
So, if the disciples met daily to break bread, that means this meeting on the first day of
the week was just their regular daily fellowship time and has nothing to do with the Sabbath.
If the Bible never mentions a change from Sabbath to Sunday, then who commanded this
change?
The Catholic Convert’s Catechism says,
“Which is the Sabbath day?
Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea
(A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which
Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.”
The Catholic Church says they changed the Sabbath to Sunday at the Council of Laodicea
in the fourth-century.
So, let’s take a look at what they said at that council.
Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea says,
“Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day,
rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians.
But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”
- Council of Laodicea, canon 29
The Catholics cite this as the moment when the Sabbath was officially changed to Sunday.
So, you can say the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, but not under Biblical authority.
That change was instituted by the Catholic Church, not God.
This explains why Catholics keep Sunday, but why do Protestant Christians keep Sunday?
Ultimately it comes down to tradition.
The Catholic Church kept Sunday for so long that when the Protestant Reformers broke away
from the Catholic Church, they retained many of the deeply embedded traditions such as
Sunday worship.
3.Is the Sabbath any day we choose?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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Transcript part 2
Some people say we can choose any day we want to be our Sabbath.
This idea goes along with the previous one.
The reasoning behind this is if the Sabbath is any day we choose, then we can choose to
keep it on Sunday.
However, the Sabbath can’t be any day, it must be the seventh day.
We see in Creation that God blessed the seventh day:
“Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work
which God had created and made.”
- Genesis 2:3
God gave them manna for six days but none on the seventh day because it was the Sabbath.
“Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, there will
be none."
- Exodus 16:26
“See!
For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two
days.
Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day."
- Exodus 16:29
The Ten Commandments remind us that the Sabbath is the seventh day.
“but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant,
nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.”
- Exodus 20:10
And we are also told that this seventh day Sabbath is a day of assembly, a “holy convocation.”
“Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation.
You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.”
- Leviticus 23:3
The Bible consistently tells us the Sabbath is the seventh day, and never even once does
it tell us we can choose which day we want to observe as the Sabbath.
God chose the seventh day to be the Sabbath, and who are we to think we can change it?
4.
Is Jesus our Sabbath now?
I’ve heard many people say that Jesus replaced the Sabbath and He is our Sabbath now, so
we don’t have to keep it anymore.
The Bible tells us that all things were created by Yeshua.
The Gospel of John says that Yeshua is the Word of God who created all things:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.”
- John 1:1-3
Paul also confirms that Yeshua created all things:
“For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible
and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.”
- Colossians 1:16
If Yeshua created all things that means He is God, and if Yeshua is God then He is the
one who gave the Sabbath commandment.
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy…
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in
them, and rested the seventh day.
Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.”
- Exodus 20:8,11
Now this is where the logic gets a little fuzzy.
They imply that Jesus died so that we don’t have to keep His Commandment - to keep the
Sabbath.
Others say when we trust in Him, He is our Sabbath, so we don’t have to keep His commandment
- to keep the Sabbath.
Do you see how confusing this logic is?
He gave us the Sabbath, and He even said “the Sabbath was made for man”, indicating that
it is a gift to us.
So, why would He take that gift away from us?
On top of that, there’s not even a single verse in the Bible that tells us that Jesus
replaced the Sabbath or became the Sabbath.
However, the Bible does tell us that He is “the Lord of the Sabbath,” which means
the Sabbath belongs to Him.
This should be obvious, since He is the Creator, and the Creator is the one who established
the Sabbath.
As a side note, I have also heard people say we are supposed to worship every day, so every
day is a Sabbath.
However, we are told that God sanctified the seventh day, which means it is set-apart from
the other six days.
It’s impossible for every day to be set-apart, because by definition to be set-apart means
it must be separate from the others.
Plus, the premise is flawed, because we have always been expected to worship every day
but we are also expected to rest on the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
5.
Is the Sabbath only for the Jews?
Many people claim the Sabbath is only for the Jews and not for the Gentiles.
This is probably one of the most popular arguments I’ve heard for not keeping the Sabbath.
They often point to Exodus 31, where it says the Sabbath is a sign between God and the
children of Israel.
“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout
their generations as a perpetual covenant.
It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made
the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.'“
- Exodus 31:16
This verse does indeed indicate that the Sabbath is an everlasting sign and covenant between
God and Israel.
But who is Israel?
If you believe in the Messiah are you not also part of Israel?
The Bible says we were once Gentiles when we did not know God, but now because of the
Messiah we have become fellow citizens of Israel.
“Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh - who are called Uncircumcision
by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands - that at that time you
were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from
the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood
of Christ…
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the
saints and members of the household of God” - Ephesians 2:11-13, 19
The Bible also says we have been grafted in by faith through Yeshua, and we are children
of Abraham because of our faith.
Don’t you see the Bible is telling us that we are Israel.
We are fellow citizens and heirs of the promises.
We are adopted, we are grafted in, we are born again as a new person.
Our ancestry doesn’t matter because we have become a new creation.
We are no longer Gentiles, we have become part of God’s people.
We have become citizens of Israel.
Also, listen to what Isaiah prophesied concerning Gentiles keeping the Sabbath.
“Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, And
to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants - Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant - Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful
in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house
shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."
- Isaiah 56:6-7
He’s saying that Gentiles who want to join themselves with the Lord, to serve Him, and
to love him, should keep the Sabbath.
This is the verse that Yeshua quoted when He drove out the money changers with a whip
and said, “my house shall be called a house of prayer to the nations.”
This verse is talking about foreigners, Gentiles being grafted in and keeping the Sabbath.
So, saying the Sabbath is only for the Jews is actually an unbiblical statement.
Now, at this point I want to point out something that Ezekiel said concerning the priests ignoring
the Sabbath.
“Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished
between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean
and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned
among them.”
- Ezekiel 22:26
God said the Sabbath is a holy day.
In Genesis God rested on the Sabbath and sanctified it, and in Exodus He said “Remember the
Sabbath day by keeping it holy.”
We don’t want to be like those priests that Ezekiel rebuked for hiding their eyes from
God’s Sabbath.
We should be people who obey God and hallow His Sabbath.
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And remember, the truth will set you free.
See you next time.
Up next
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I think the level you're now plummeting to is tragic. The false witness you're resorting to now is not only transparent but evident through the written record of my posts that prove your lack of truth and as such credibility. As to the "own savior" slur, false witness coupled with blasphemy is the weapon of cowards.
I've noticed people who don't study the scriptures but hunt for excerpts from sources so as to refute those who do, and fail in the effort when the debate extends unto what they're not able to Google, turn vicious and as such the facade having fallen away the lack of grace appears outstanding.
God save you.

there is no false witness you poor tragic deceiver

for months you deceived us all as to who you really are

and you have nothing of value to say so you resort to stupid personal comments that have no merit and the only basis is in your own soul

get a life because I am pretty sure you do not have one

I have very seldom spoken to anyone in this forum or any other with the words I am using here, no matter how bad the disagreement

my main grief with you is your deception to me and then to everyone else.

I cannot stand lying and you have lied with purpose and the guile of a traitor who has planned all along to fool people, hook them in, and then reveal their true nature

I am not going to respond to you anymore. you do not benefit from honest people anyway
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,591
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113
Some people can't handle the uncertainty of grace; they prefer the "certainty" of Law. They would rather "be in control" and follow rules than believe they are loved and accepted and live by the Spirit.
It amazes me that people who want to deny the law of the Lord get their kicks out of lying about the people who love the law. They keep chanting about them wanting to earn their salvation by obeying the law, without a shred of evidence of their claim.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I guess my question for the title question is; why would God want to see a person abandon grace for the law, when by grace we are saved and by the law we are condemned?

my personal opinion is that they are deceived and the blind leading the blind

notice when you finally understand what is going on with them, they become nasty and smear your words that are straight from the Bible

reminds me of the snake in the garden with the fake 'has God really said'...they will attach to the person who tries to show them their error, the deceit they suffer from themselves

no cure

unless God in His mercy bends down and wakes them up, there is no cure

and they do damage and will have answer for that

itching ears are apparently attached to all kinds of people
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
It amazes me that people who want to deny the law of the Lord get their kicks out of lying about the people who love the law. They keep chanting about them wanting to earn their salvation by obeying the law, without a shred of evidence of their claim.

it amazes the rest of us that you pervert the gospel and mock those who have tried to help you

you seem to be one of those people who should not own a Bible

you are confused and unable to comprehend what you think you are studying

a good Bible teacher would loose their patience and pull their hair and in the end most likely excuse you from their class because of your bad influence on others who are not deceived as you are

but then again, deception will do that and self righteousness occurs with those who fantasize they are some sort of Bible scholar

it is a cruel fantasy though and will in the end mock the one who practices it

I am not waiting for one of your sniveling and childish responses because I am not going to bother with you anymore either
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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What did Jesus do when the Magdalene was facing an angry crowd of men threatening to stone her for her sins?
There is zero evidence that Mary Magdalene was the adulteress in the Gospel of John 8:3-11, though it is a Roman Catholic teaching...
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
The thing about trying to keep the sabbath some Christians may work Monday through Friday 40 hour week have plenty of time to choose Saturday or Sunday as their rest day. some might have to work Thursday through Monday some work six or seven days because they have to earn a living. this world today runs 24/7.

people who preach sabbath keeping are probably working Monday through Friday or not at all retired or something. it’s unrealistic in a world people sometimes have no choice but to work a schedule that may have them working the weekend. it’s a dog eat dog world if your not working it can be a hard life.
Actually, in the United States many large companies alot for employees religious holy day as one of their two (or one) day off.
And also, given the work week may be Monday to Friday, some companies allow a Sabbatarian to leave early on Friday so as to meet the sundown schedule.