Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

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Major

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Dec 12, 2020
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The gospel of the kingdom will restart at the Tribulation, so yes signs and wonders will restart again then.

If that is your point, it is taken, thanks
I think that a careful reading of Revelation 13 will show that the "False Prophet" will be the one doing Signs & Wonders during the 7 year Tribulation period.

That Biblical fact I would think should make anyone suspicious of signs and wonders today.
 

Major

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Dec 12, 2020
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Myself healed
Myself baptized in the HolySpirit in 1977 through the laying on of hands, with tongues accompanying.
My dog healed of Cushing's disease . Look it up. It is 100% fatal.

THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!
I do not mean to question your comment or the facts there of. But allow me to ask you a simple question.

If all that happened as you say, then why do you think that so many people are dying of the Covid-19 Virus?????

Why isn't all the faith healers we see on TV asking for money and giving testimonies just like yours, not going from hospital to hospital healing the sick and dying?????

Instead of talking about what has been done .... why don't we see them doing it today???

And, please, please do not tell me that it is all a matter of faith. I just was informed of the death of a dear Godly man who had more faith than you and me and he just died from Covid-19.

Please explain that my friend...???

Another question......If tongues is valid today, why does the Assembly of God require ALL their missionaries to have language classes in the language spoken in the country they are going to work in????

Shouldn't the gift of tongues remove such a requirement?????
 

Major

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Dec 12, 2020
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I reject your argument because it is deeply flawed, far from exhaustive, and inherently biased.

God gave the sign of the rainbow thousands of years before Israel existed, therefore your first point is annulled.

Revelation is replete with signs and wonders, and none of it occurred prior to the events recorded in Acts 28, therefore your conclusion is annulled.

There is plenty of evidence today of God continuing to work through signs and wonders, therefore your premise is annulled.
I thought that the Revelation, from chapter 4:1 to chapter 20 was about the Wrath of God from 7 years and that the A/C was the one who was doing signs and wonders in Revelation 13.

Matthew 24:23-28 records the words of Jesus about this as He said to us......
“Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

Given that these prophetic words of Jesus occur as part of the great prophecy that signs not only his presence but the conclusion of this system of things, one would likely conclude that these words are fulfilled during the last days. One might even put forward the Scripture posted proof of that conclusion.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I think that a careful reading of Revelation 13 will show that the "False Prophet" will be the one doing Signs & Wonders during the 7 year Tribulation period.

That Biblical fact I would think should make anyone suspicious of signs and wonders today.
There will certainly be false signs and wonders as Jesus warned in Matthew 24:24.

But there will also be 2 witnesses, most people think it would be Moses and Elijah also performing signs and wonders in Revelations 11.

My point 1 and 2 state that Israel always required signs for them to believe, but yes, you have raised a point that signs and wonders may not be reliable.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The "Sign Gifts" ended because they were given to the Apostles by Jesus Christ in the Great Comission of Mark 16:14-16......
"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. "

Only the ELEVEN Apostles plus Paul had the Sign Gifts as they were the only Apostles. When they died the Sign Gifts ended.

1 Corth. 13:8-9 is your confirmation where we see..........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. "

The "PERFECT" in the original Greek is "Teleion" which means COMPLETE. IMHO is the completed Written Word of God.

IT can not mean Jesus Christ as He has always been perfect and did not become complete as He always was.

IT can not mean the 2nd Coming of Christ at the Rapture as there will be millions left behind who will get saved.

IT can not be heaven as 13:10 says the Perfect is come. Heaven does not come to us....we go to it.

By simple eliminatiion IMO we can see that the only perfect thing left that has come is the "Completed" Word of God.
I agree with you, but I do understand that, like many scriptures, sometimes our pre-conceived doctrine can get in the way of interpreting passages so whenever I encounter people, like many here, who choose to interpret perfect as the 2nd coming of Christ, I agree to disagree.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I do not mean to question your comment or the facts there of. But allow me to ask you a simple question.

If all that happened as you say, then why do you think that so many people are dying of the Covid-19 Virus?????

Why isn't all the faith healers we see on TV asking for money and giving testimonies just like yours, not going from hospital to hospital healing the sick and dying?????

Instead of talking about what has been done .... why don't we see them doing it today???

And, please, please do not tell me that it is all a matter of faith. I just was informed of the death of a dear Godly man who had more faith than you and me and he just died from Covid-19.

Please explain that my friend...???

Another question......If tongues is valid today, why does the Assembly of God require ALL their missionaries to have language classes in the language spoken in the country they are going to work in????

Shouldn't the gift of tongues remove such a requirement?????
Good points, Kenneth Copeland, who prophesied that March 2020 is the end of the pandemic as the "prophet of God" stands out in particular.

You may be keen on this related thread. https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...bout-how-god-heals-today.191215/#post-4205312
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Quite well actually. Study and application of knowledge in interpreting one language into another. How did the bible interpreters do taking the Hebrew and Greek and writing it out in English?
I am talking about the Biblical gift described in I Corinthians 14. In verse 13, the one who speaks in tongues is to pray that he might interpret. Do you take this to be a mere natural ability? I Corinthians 12 lists interpretation of tongues among the gifts of the Spirit.

I believe it is you that fails to first define which terms you are using in any discussion. If you actually used biblical definitions in your discussions you would not create doubt and strife among the body of Christ.
Don't shift the blame on me. You are the one who has prophecy ceasing on the one had and continuing on the other.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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The "Sign Gifts" ended because they were given to the Apostles by Jesus Christ in the Great Comission of Mark 16:14-16......
The Bible does not use the term 'sign gifts.'

"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. "
Look at the passage. The apostles preach the message, then them that believe do the signs. The apostles preach. Others believe and are baptized. Them that believe do signs. Where do you get that the apostles only do signs? That's not what the verses say.

Only the ELEVEN Apostles plus Paul had the Sign Gifts as they were the only Apostles. When they died the Sign Gifts ended.
I would encourage you to read through the relevant passages of scripture on the issue. It seems to me that you have not studied. Acts 14:4 and 14 indicate that Barnabas was also an apostle, for example. He and Paul told of the miracles they performed among the Gentiles in Acts 15. Prior to that in Acts, Stephen and Philip worked miracles also. I Corinthians 12 lists a number of supernatural gifts that are given to members of the body of Christ as the Spirit wills. This is inconsistent with your statement above. Also, read in Acts 2 about the Spirit being poured out on all flesh, including young men, old men, handmaidens, etc.

1 Corth. 13:8-9 is your confirmation where we see..........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. "
You should read the rest of the passage:
1 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The coming of the perfect is going to make Paul's speech, understanding, and thoughts back when he was writing scripture seem like a child's by comparison to what comes after. To argue that he is speaking of the scriptures does not make sense. It also puts the one who makes the assertion in a superior position to Paul in terms of their understanding.

By reading scripture, we can hope to attain to apostolic understanding, but not so far exceed them that they are like babes in comparison to us.

Ephesians 3:4
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

And I Corinthians 13 needs to be interpreted in line with the rest of the epistle.

I Corinthians 1
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

If Paul did not anticipate coming behind in spiritual gifts while waiting for the Lord's return, why should we? Also, Paul continues the epistle after chapter 13, and in chapter 15 he describes the state of the believer in the resurrection at the return of Christ, and the end, telos, when Christ delivers up the kingdom to God.

The "PERFECT" in the original Greek is "Teleion" which means COMPLETE. IMHO is the completed Written Word of God.

IT can not mean Jesus Christ as He has always been perfect and did not become complete as He always was.
If you insist that to teleion refers to a physical object or being, a substantive thing, you would have to prove that assertion. Perfection is coming in the future.

IT can not mean the 2nd Coming of Christ at the Rapture as there will be millions left behind who will get saved.
How is this an argument for anything? There were lots of people who did not get saved when the last book of the Bible was written.

IT can not be heaven as 13:10 says the Perfect is come. Heaven does not come to us....we go to it.
This seems to me to be a hyperliteral understanding of 'that' in 'that which is perfect'. The whole phrase translates an article and a word in Greek. The perfect is coming. Your arguments here seem to be based on a naive understanding of semantics.

By simple eliminatiion IMO we can see that the only perfect thing left that has come is the "Completed" Word of God.
Because there are only four concepts in the universe? Some theologians, include cessationists, think 'to teleion' refers to 'the eternal state.' My inclination is that it refers either to the state of things (possibly individuals) at the resurrection/rapture event, or else when Christ delivers the kingdom up to God.

A verse that comes to mind is from I John where it says it does not appear what we shall be for we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

Some time later, I read John Calvin's commentary on this chapter. He is not known for being a Charismatic. He was a language and literature scholar. He quoted the same verse from I John I had in mind. He took the passage to refer to what happened either at death or the resurrection, and wrote that interpretations that argued that the perfect had come in 'the intervening time' were stupid... stupid or foolish depending on your translation. This was from a Greek scholar who certainly had a strong opinion of the authority of scripture.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Now you know the gift of tongues (language), as discussed in the Scriptures, is the ability to speak a foreign language by the power of the Holy Spirit. A language not previously known by the speaker. This particular gift has ceased. This does not include the gibberish spoken in Pentecostal/Charismatic churches today. The sole called gibberish being assigned to some kind of "angelic" language or heavenly language is not Biblical. In 1 Cor. 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. , though many use this verse as some sort of proof text, Paul was not saying he could do these things. The reader was to acknowledge a form of sarcasm here:[/quote]

I find 'sarcasm' as an explanation for why Paul mentioned tongues of angels in I Corinthians 13 to be the second stupidest interpretation of scripture I've read all week. Well, maybe the third, but it is up there. I've heard hyperbole, but sarcasm? If you can explain away scripture by calling it sarcasm, what's to stop someone from doing that with 'thou shalt not commit adultery' or some other passage?

Basically, you want me to rule out the idea of someone speaking in tongues of angels because you say so. The idea of tongues of angels shows up in intertestamental literature... the Testament of Job or something like that. Also, your argument doesn't hold water if we look at the flow of argument in the passage. There are parallel arguments there, examples of things that are possible...extreme but possible.. giving one's body to be burned, giving away all possessions. There are people who have done such things. If moving mountains in the gospel is meant as literal or as a metaphor, however it is meant, it is possible. Why would Paul list speaking in tongues of angels in a list of other things that are possible?

For your information, historically, Pentecostals have interpreted 'tongues' to mean 'languages.' Early in the Charismatic movement, Charismatics still do. I know there are some individuals who see it as some kind of spiritual code language among the various groups of Charismatics. I have no way of knowing, but I'd imagine it would be in the minority.

If you research a bit of history, Agnes Ozman wrote of spoking in tongues and individuals identifying it at Bohemian (which we would call Czech today.) If you read the Azusa Street revival newsletter, The Apostolic Faith, there are numerous testimonies of people hearing languages they knew 'in tongues' including a Canadian first nations language, Armenian, etc. There were testimonies from people at the Azusa Street Revival of hearing known human languages spoken 'in tongues' in the meeting, including at least one testimony of the interpretation of tongue aligning with the interpretation, if I recall correctly. (That may have been in another meeting outside of the mission.)

Paul could not do the following:

1) Speak in all of the languages of men.
He did not suggest this idea in I Corinthians. There is no word 'all' in the verse.
2) Speak as an angel.
Paul suggested it might be possible.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3) He did have the gift of prophecy but he did not understand ALL mysteries.
4) He did not have ALL knowledge.[/quote]

It might be true in the way the word translated 'all' is used in Greek.


5) His faith was not such he could move mountains.
[/quote]
These items were for contrast only. Paul was saying "IF" I could do all these things and had not love, then it would all be for nothing.[/QUOTE]

Jesus spoke about the one who does not doubt in his heart but believes can speak to this mountain and tell it to be cast into the sea and it would be done. If that was some kind of idiom and He meant it that way, it's true. If he meant it literally, that's true. Either way, you should not say Paul did not have faith to move mountains.

Why do you stop quoting there? What about the rest of the passage:

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Would it be possible for Paul to give everything away to feed the poor? What about to give himself to be burned? I seem to recall reading that Francis of Assisi gave all his possessions away, including his clothes at one point in time, and John Huss did not recant and was burned at the stake.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Granted. However, are you suggesting that the Word is still speaking directly to people today, apart from the study of Scripture?
The Word lights every man that cometh into the world. Would any of us understand anything at all apart from the divine Logos?

I do not believe revelation is limited to scripture. I do not see how such an idea aligns with what scripture actually teaches. And I am much more concerned with the teaching of scripture than with the assertions of certain streams of Protestantism about the role of scripture.
 

SoulWeaver

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Oct 25, 2014
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Your comments above are based only on your opinion.

I'm still waiting for your response on the gift of interpretation of tongues.
As usual, the posts may fly and be 5000 words long, but no explanation to the questions asked by you, nor me... I scanned the thread... did I miss it?
The sheer futility... What is the point? Don't answer me about what we probably agree on, to argue the final point we disagree on; give answer about the points we don't agree on, then we might get somewhere.
 

Blade

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Nov 19, 2019
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I did notice 22 pages later and not one verse saying showing the gifts are gone. I did notice other groups being made fun of.. were told to love one another because this is how the world will know we are His. So.. speaks truth about who we really love. If we can't love those that love Christ that came in the flesh the only way to the Father yet might believe a tad different as in FIATH. :) we what try to tell this GOD "I REALLY LOVE YOU JESUS!" We can't fool God. Hey I disagree with a few here but.. man I have no desire what so ever to make fun of you in any way.

I believe because He said it. It was only from man did I hear learn "some times God does not heal, gifts are gone" so forth so on. Oh I praise GOD I never heard this growing up. LOL no internet then. I was just around those that believed. Seen so many wonders. The frist greatest was the woman..I can still see her screaming crying.. I asked why is she doing that? Friend said "see all the people here? Half came with her because she was blind" HAHA not any more! Did you know any of those great men/woman of God that had huge meetings where hospitals would bring ALL those sick and dying and they were healed.

Someone said something about those with Covid-19.. ok what about ALL those that had it and were healed? How can someone of the light with Christ in them NOT know this? What do some of you really expect to see and hear? You don't believe. Gods not going to show you. Will never try to make you believe. Not how this works. Nothing has change with God. Christ goes into some town and can only lay hands on a few and teach. Why? Because of? DOUBT.

Saying or believing gifts are gone is not a truth. Standing on that is doubt. Saying they are gone does not become truth. Again there is no verse for this. So much speculation is used. Don't believe anything I say.. I have nothing what so ever to prove.

I am not lucky..no such thing. I am not more blessed. I just stand on His word. And every single time EVER TIME He has answered it. I was upset about something one time and to HIM I directed it. I knew He failed .. didn't answer. Oh man I pray and wish it ALWAYS happened like this.. well it was one of those times He did speak and said "WHEN have I ever failed you" then I could see so many times in my life I never thought He was there...OH HE WAS EVER SINGLE TIME!

There are fallen angels we battel.. and this world. The MOMENT you stand on HIS word and will not be moved. You get this like target on you.. and the enemy will test you. Seems for no reason people get sick around you or you do.. or things start to break down like never before or you have trouble at work and you didn't before. Or you kids or parents.. on and on.

All you have to do is read Matt-John and how Christ was treated. That was full faith 24/7. Reminds me of this movie I just saw where some of them said "if we do nothing ..nothing will happen to us and we will stay alive" Where the ONE person could not.. and suffered for it. Not a easy road. He is always with you and will ALWAYS answer HIS WORD! His compassion is like no other. We please HIM alone by faith and nothing else. It is what He looks for... will He find it?

Sorry for how I write and didnt come to offend. If you don't believe in the gifts oh PRAISE GOD! We sever the SAME GOD!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Have you ever endeavored to interpret from one language to another? Like speaking in a second language it requires some skill and knowledge of grammar in both languages.
Yes... although I have not maintained the skill, I was almost fluent in French. I understood the technical aspects of French grammar although my vocabulary was not great.

You question like most you pose has an alternate motive but like the interpretation of the bible from Hebrew and Greek into English was no small feat.
No alternate motive. I want to know what you think the gift of interpretation of tongues was at the time Paul wrote to the Corinthians and, since it's not one of the three that were to cease, what does it look like now.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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I thought that the Revelation, from chapter 4:1 to chapter 20 was about the Wrath of God from 7 years and that the A/C was the one who was doing signs and wonders in Revelation 13.

Matthew 24:23-28 records the words of Jesus about this as He said to us......
“Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

Given that these prophetic words of Jesus occur as part of the great prophecy that signs not only his presence but the conclusion of this system of things, one would likely conclude that these words are fulfilled during the last days. One might even put forward the Scripture posted proof of that conclusion.
Hello and welcome to CC...
While the antichrist may be doing signs and wonders during the end times, bear in mind that nothing in all creation can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus, so we need not fear.

I would rather walk in faith and in the confidence that God is still in the business of miracles than walk in fear of being deceived.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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All you have to do is read Matt-John and how Christ was treated. That was full faith 24/7. Reminds me of this movie I just saw where some of them said "if we do nothing ..nothing will happen to us and we will stay alive" Where the ONE person could not.. and suffered for it. Not a easy road. He is always with you and will ALWAYS answer HIS WORD! His compassion is like no other. We please HIM alone by faith and nothing else. It is what He looks for... will He find it?

Sorry for how I write and didnt come to offend. If you don't believe in the gifts oh PRAISE GOD! We sever the SAME GOD!
Christ was only sent to the circumcision in his first coming, he said it himself (Matthew 15:24), and Paul repeated it (Romans 15:8).

So all the signs he did was for the nation Israel, as I mentioned in my points 1 to 3.

But I do understand that us former gentiles would naturally also wish that we had those same physical blessings, of health and finances, that was promised to Israel. It can be hard to be just content with spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3, Romans 15:27, 1 Corinthians 9:11)

But your final sentence is correct, this is a non-salvific issue.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I did notice 22 pages later and not one verse saying showing the gifts are gone. I did notice other groups being made fun of.. were told to love one another because this is how the world will know we are His. So.. speaks truth about who we really love. If we can't love those that love Christ that came in the flesh the only way to the Father yet might believe a tad different as in FIATH. :) we what try to tell this GOD "I REALLY LOVE YOU JESUS!" We can't fool God. Hey I disagree with a few here but.. man I have no desire what so ever to make fun of you in any way.

I believe because He said it. It was only from man did I hear learn "some times God does not heal, gifts are gone" so forth so on. Oh I praise GOD I never heard this growing up. LOL no internet then. I was just around those that believed. Seen so many wonders. The frist greatest was the woman..I can still see her screaming crying.. I asked why is she doing that? Friend said "see all the people here? Half came with her because she was blind" HAHA not any more! Did you know any of those great men/woman of God that had huge meetings where hospitals would bring ALL those sick and dying and they were healed.

Someone said something about those with Covid-19.. ok what about ALL those that had it and were healed? How can someone of the light with Christ in them NOT know this? What do some of you really expect to see and hear? You don't believe. Gods not going to show you. Will never try to make you believe. Not how this works. Nothing has change with God. Christ goes into some town and can only lay hands on a few and teach. Why? Because of? DOUBT.

Saying or believing gifts are gone is not a truth. Standing on that is doubt. Saying they are gone does not become truth. Again there is no verse for this. So much speculation is used. Don't believe anything I say.. I have nothing what so ever to prove.

I am not lucky..no such thing. I am not more blessed. I just stand on His word. And every single time EVER TIME He has answered it. I was upset about something one time and to HIM I directed it. I knew He failed .. didn't answer. Oh man I pray and wish it ALWAYS happened like this.. well it was one of those times He did speak and said "WHEN have I ever failed you" then I could see so many times in my life I never thought He was there...OH HE WAS EVER SINGLE TIME!

There are fallen angels we battel.. and this world. The MOMENT you stand on HIS word and will not be moved. You get this like target on you.. and the enemy will test you. Seems for no reason people get sick around you or you do.. or things start to break down like never before or you have trouble at work and you didn't before. Or you kids or parents.. on and on.

All you have to do is read Matt-John and how Christ was treated. That was full faith 24/7. Reminds me of this movie I just saw where some of them said "if we do nothing ..nothing will happen to us and we will stay alive" Where the ONE person could not.. and suffered for it. Not a easy road. He is always with you and will ALWAYS answer HIS WORD! His compassion is like no other. We please HIM alone by faith and nothing else. It is what He looks for... will He find it?

Sorry for how I write and didnt come to offend. If you don't believe in the gifts oh PRAISE GOD! We sever the SAME GOD!
Incidentally, what are your views on Paul advising Timothy to drink a little wine for his frequent stomach issues, near the end of Paul's life on Earth?

Why didn't Paul advise Timothy to read Matt-John and declare that "by his stripes he is healed"?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Incidentally, what are your views on Paul advising Timothy to drink a little wine for his frequent stomach issues, near the end of Paul's life on Earth?

Why didn't Paul advise Timothy to read Matt-John and declare that "by his stripes he is healed"?
Paul had an infirmity that caused him to minister among the Galatians, possibly around the opening of Acts 14, and definitely before the mention of Galatia in Acts 16. After that, Paul did great miracles after that, the extraordinary miracles God granted through the hands of Paul in Ephesus, the healing of all the sick brought to him at the end of Acts, and signs and wonders all the way out to Illyricum. So an individual having illness at one point in time does not prove cessation of gifts after that point in time, according to scripture.
 

Gardenias

Active member
Oct 27, 2020
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Websters def. of sign......a good place to look!

However, the venacular of the bible places SIGNS as a marker for NON- BELIEVERS, NOT BELIEVERS!
I do not believe signs have ceased, I think believers are not truly seeking ALL that God has for us.
Forty years ago I received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidience of tongues,not taught to me but filled me up to bursting and broke forth speaking from God.
I have seen miracles through the feverent prayers of faithful men and women, God is still in charge and still the same!
It is US who are failing!
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Websters def. of sign......a good place to look!

However, the venacular of the bible places SIGNS as a marker for NON- BELIEVERS, NOT BELIEVERS!
There were occasions where signs were given to God's people. One that comes to mind this time of year is that the sign the angels gave the shepherds was that they would see a babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

I'd imagine seeing a babe wrapped in swaddling clothes wasn't that unusual. It might have been unusual for a baby to be in a manger.

And, btw, It is extremely unlikley that Christ was born in a manger as some recent Christmas songs suggest. It would have been cruel to make Mary sit, lay, or squat over a feed trough to give birth. Many of us haven't had farmers in our ancestry for enough generations not to know this stuff. I think my grandparents farmed part of their lives and my great-grandparents were farmers, and I'm Gen X.

And the Bible doesn't say the angels _sang_ glory to God in the highest as a couple of the older carols say. It says they spoke the words. I still like the songs. I've just taking to singing 'Hark the herald angels said.' Should I sing 'Speak in exultation'?
 

Gardenias

Active member
Oct 27, 2020
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I agree that signs were and are given to fulfill prophecies.
As a general rule God has given us the sign of LIFE ,the body as a wonder of creation is truly a divine sign of a great and loving creator.