Why I believe the Great Tribulation started in 70 A.D.

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Aug 10, 2019
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For anyone who has not read the whole thread but would like the "highlights", go read posts 16, 19, 22, 32, 50, 73, 121, and 122.

EDIT: I was unable to make links out of the numbers. Sorry. (But I tried...)
 
Nov 23, 2013
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For anyone who has not read the whole thread but would like the "highlights", go read posts 16, 19, 22, 32, 50, 73, 121, and 122.

EDIT: I was unable to make links out of the numbers. Sorry. (But I tried...)
When is the day of the Lord in your view?
 
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I think the great tribulation started when I met my last girlfriend.

But... I don't really have any scripture to support that.
My great tribulation started in 1978 AD when I got married for the first time. Not one stone was left unturned believe me. In my case I offer scripture to support my claim.

Proverbs 21:19
Better to live in a desert than with a quarrelsome and nagging wife.

Ain't that the truth?
 

GaryA

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When is the day of the Lord in your view?
The 'Day of the Lord' is two things (which one depends on context, but mostly the second one listed here) -- the 1000-years of the reign of Christ on the earth - and, the first [24-hour] day of that 1000 years - which is the [day of the] Return of Christ. (i.e. - the first day of the Second Coming of Christ)
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The 'Day of the Lord' is two things (which one depends on context, but mostly the second one listed here) -- the 1000-years of the reign of Christ on the earth - and, the first [24-hour] day of that 1000 years - which is the [day of the] Return of Christ. (i.e. - the first day of the Second Coming of Christ)
I wasn’t aware that it was in two parts, I assume what you gave is the last part.

What’s the first part?
 

GaryA

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I wasn’t aware that it was in two parts, I assume what you gave is the last part.

What’s the first part?
Let me try this again...

The 'Day of the Lord' is two things:

~ [a particular specific] 1000-years
~ the first day of that 1000 years

The first day is the day Jesus returns.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Let me try this again...

The 'Day of the Lord' is two things:

~ [a particular specific] 1000-years
~ the first day of that 1000 years

The first day is the day Jesus returns.
I ran across his today while driving and listening to the Bible.

Zep 1:7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.
Zep 1:8 And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel.

How does this fit with your view? What is the sacrifice and who are the guests?

If you like, you can reply at the thread I started earlier so as to not derail your thread.

Like I said, I just discovered this passage today and would like to know how it fits into every bodies end times scenario.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/day-of-the-lord-the-sacrifice.187246/#post-4022050
 

GaryA

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The 'Day of the Lord' is two things (which one depends on context, but mostly the second one listed here) -- the 1000-years of the reign of Christ on the earth - and, the first [24-hour] day of that 1000 years - which is the [day of the] Return of Christ. (i.e. - the first day of the Second Coming of Christ)
This is illustrated/indicated in 2 Peter 3.
 

GaryA

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Topics been covered here plenty. Most regulars know it already and don't need a lengthy explanation. They heard it before and disagree.
If this is the 1000 year reign right now then the bible is a lie.
This illustrates something that people often don't understand...

The fact that you included the statement in bold above tells me two things:

~ Your "know it already" statement is not really true; because, what I am suggesting in this thread is not what you were certain it would be.

~ Your mind is "stuck" on the GT being a short period of time such that - upon seeing a statement suggesting the GT started in 70 A.D. - you assumed that I must believe "the GT is over" and we are well into the 1000-year reign of Christ.

The fact is - I believe in the physical-presence reign of Christ on the earth - which does not begin until He returns - which is still future.

I am not writing this to "pick on you"; rather, only to make a point about how people sometimes assume that certain ideas "automatically must go together" when in reality they do not.

IF you pay very close attention to how the Bible "defines" the start of the GT and the end of the GT - and - you look closely at the "details" surrounding those "definitions" - and - you are able to "let go" of the things you have "learned" (that are full of assumptions) about the End Times Scenario -- you WILL discover that the futurist and preterist views are both in error - because neither fully matches all of the "details" completely.

I am trying my best to help folks on here understand how that - the only way all of the "details" actually match in scripture is if the GT is a long period of time that started circa 70 A.D. and ends in the future.

This is why people assume that it must all be future or past - because, they refuse to examine all of the "details" exactly as scripture records them. Instead, they prefer to clutch tightly onto what they were taught, making assumptions about things that scripture does not actually say.
 

GaryA

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The first thing I need to point you to is that these verses in the three accounts of the Olivet Discourse are talking about the same thing:

Matthew 24:15-22
Mark 13:14-20
Luke 21:20-24a

That is to say - they are 3 accounts of the same discourse from 3 different men. Luke did not witness Jesus say anything different than what the other two heard. Luke is talking about the very-same-exact-thing that Matthew and Mark are.

If you do not understand this and believe it -- then, you need to stare at it - and study it - until you do.
It is vitally important that you understand this.
 

GaryA

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People are going to believe what they want to believe. Just make sure you adopt an attitude that wants to know and believe the actual bona fide real truth - "even if it hurts"...

EDIT: This is the only way you are going to properly understand the actual bona fide real truth. And, you have to want it badly enough...
 
Nov 23, 2013
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This illustrates something that people often don't understand...

The fact that you included the statement in bold above tells me two things:

~ Your "know it already" statement is not really true; because, what I am suggesting in this thread is not what you were certain it would be.

~ Your mind is "stuck" on the GT being a short period of time such that - upon seeing a statement suggesting the GT started in 70 A.D. - you assumed that I must believe "the GT is over" and we are well into the 1000-year reign of Christ.

The fact is - I believe in the physical-presence reign of Christ on the earth - which does not begin until He returns - which is still future.

I am not writing this to "pick on you"; rather, only to make a point about how people sometimes assume that certain ideas "automatically must go together" when in reality they do not.

IF you pay very close attention to how the Bible "defines" the start of the GT and the end of the GT - and - you look closely at the "details" surrounding those "definitions" - and - you are able to "let go" of the things you have "learned" (that are full of assumptions) about the End Times Scenario -- you WILL discover that the futurist and preterist views are both in error - because neither fully matches all of the "details" completely.

I am trying my best to help folks on here understand how that - the only way all of the "details" actually match in scripture is if the GT is a long period of time that started circa 70 A.D. and ends in the future.

This is why people assume that it must all be future or past - because, they refuse to examine all of the "details" exactly as scripture records them. Instead, they prefer to clutch tightly onto what they were taught, making assumptions about things that scripture does not actually say.
I don't remember seeing you write about when the "Great Tribulation" ends, when do you say it ends?
 

GaryA

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I don't remember seeing you write about when the "Great Tribulation" ends, when do you say it ends?
Not in this thread, silly - it is focused on the start of it being ~70 A.D.; however, I have mentioned that I believe the end of it is future - and marked by the appearance of the Two Witnesses and the beginning of the Trumpet events.

EDIT: Not that it would hurt anything to discuss it in this thread; only, it was not part of the original intent for this thread.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Not in this thread, silly - it is focused on the start of it being ~70 A.D.; however, I have mentioned that I believe the end of it is future - and marked by the appearance of the Two Witnesses and the beginning of the Trumpet events.
How does that line up with Matthew 24:21? It looks to me like your view has the great tribulation ending and then even worse tribulation starting at the trumpet events.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 
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The beginning of the GT is aligned with Matthew 24:21 and the end of the GT is aligned with Matthew 24:29 (or, just before it).
The two witnesses breath fire out of their mouths and kill people, they turn waters into blood and smite the earth with plagues. Is this not great tribulation?

How do you define great tribulation?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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@GaryA

This last bit of our conversation has really helped me a lot. I realize now that the time of great tribulation - great trouble or suffering, ENDS and THEN the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven.

This is proof positive that the sun, moon and stars falling from heaven ARE NOT literal entities, they represent Israel and the kingdom being taken away from them and given to another nation.
 

GaryA

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It looks to me like your view has the great tribulation ending and then even worse tribulation starting at the trumpet events.
You make a good point; however, I look at the GT as an 'event' when aligning it with other things. To me - it starts when the Bible says it starts and ends when the Bible says it ends. Period.
 

GaryA

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The two witnesses breath fire out of their mouths and kill people, they turn waters into blood and smite the earth with plagues. Is this not great tribulation?

How do you define great tribulation?
As an 'event' with a starting point and and ending point.

I now refer you to my previous post...
 
Nov 23, 2013
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As an 'event' with a starting point and and ending point.

I now refer you to my previous post...
Does the bible call it an event or is that just "religious jargon" brought about by dispensationalism and "The 7 Year Tribulation"?

Unless I'm missing something, the bible doesn't describe it as an event it just says it will be a time of great tribulation.