Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
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2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

How can a Christian whos "sins" were "for all time" forgiven on the day they were baptized ever be found with a spot, or with blame?

Is it possible that there are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, UNTO their own destruction?

Why is anyone being told to be diligent at anything, isn't Jesus who is your rest, being diligent for you?


2Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
6,581
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^ EDIT to add to my post that "timed-out"): … but no one is suggesting we remain lifeless corpses throughout all this... "[having been put to death to the Law...] ...for you to belong to Another... [SO THAT]..." means something ;)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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What is your understanding of the word spirit? what part of us is spirit? or what part of us connects with spirit?
Are you asking concerning the Holy Spirit along with our spirit?

Or just what I think my spirit is?
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

How can a Christian whos "sins" were "for all time" forgiven on the day they were baptized ever be found with a spot, or with blame?

Is it possible that there are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, UNTO their own destruction?

Why is anyone being told to be diligent at anything, isn't Jesus who is your rest, being diligent for you?


2Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
It is very simple; They sin again....after repentance and baptism.
A falling away .....spoken of in Scriptures.... in many ways.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
6,581
1,304
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How can a Christian whos "sins" were "for all time" forgiven on the day they were baptized ever be found with a spot, or with blame?
For one thing, this didn't take place "on the day we were [water] baptized" if that's what you are suggesting.

Yesterday, I posted the following verses (on the thread titled "Believers really need to understand the truth" Page 5):


Romans 6:3 - [see also Gal3:27]

"Or are you unaware that as many as have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?"


Colossians 2:12 -

"having been buried with Him in [the] baptism [ ^ ], in which also you were raised with Him [G4891 - synēgerthēte] through/by means of the faith of the working of God, the One having raised Him out from the dead."



That is, "baptized into HIS DEATH" (when HE DIED, back in 32ad, on the Cross)… we are instructed to "know" this.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,883
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It is very simple; They sin again....after repentance and baptism.
A falling away .....spoken of in Scriptures.... in many ways.
To be honest I don't find what you have said above as very simple.

I can't connect in my mind they sin through to falling away.

Maybe expand it for me please.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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You are taking this out of context which is apostasy which is no longer holding to the faith, see the previous verses:

(Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit)

(Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. )

(Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.)

Falling away is not falling into sin.
But the bible says that EVERYONE that has this hope In them will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure so then the word IF Is a word to help us understand that It Is not us but GODs work so then I look at It like this'
If It were possible'
Loving one another as commanded by God is our work IMO.

Matt 25:
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

Do you believe it was Jesus who fed Himself through these people or do you believe these people voluntarily obeyed His (Christ's) command to love others?
Remember what I said?
JESUS IS the VINE and we are members of HIS body receiving sustenance from the VINE and Displaying spiritual fruit?

JESUS CHRIST manifested In the flesh IS the WORD of our FATHER In heaven and GOD our FATHER IS the head of CHRIST.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
6,581
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...and 2Cor11:2 says, "For I [Paul] am jealous as to you [plural] with the jealousy of God. For I have betrothed you [plural] to one husband, to present A PURE VIRGIN [singular] to Christ."

...and Eph5:25-27 says, "25 Husbands, love the wives just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water by [en/in] the word, 27 so that He might present to Himself the church in glory, not having spot or wrinkle or any of the such things, but that it would be holy and blameless/unblemished."
 
Dec 9, 2011
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My point is, Jesus can not be instructing us to hold on something and then run behind our backs to hold it up Himself. It is your job to hold up what you are supposed to hold up and that is faith otherwise you loose it.
Did JESUS tell the rich young ruler to keep the law when no man with the seed of Adam can keep It answer=yes
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,883
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I do not hate works. I love works look at my posts about works

I have to laugh at the fact you can’t answer my question though. It is telling
Hi Bro,

None of us greasy gracers, are looking down on people with disgust like the Pharisees did and we can sin all we want and teach that it's ok to to teach disobedience to Jesus that we are accused of.

Yet they accuse us even though you say above "I love works"
Even though we say we are saved my faith to walk in the works God prepared for us before hand.

Questions are not answered but accusations thrown.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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If it is their fault/weakness (those that fail to produce fruits) then it is also wise to say that those that produce fruits produce because of their strength.
Apart from Christ we can do nothing. Producing fruit is not automatic, but it’s also not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Jesus says if we have useless faith we will be destroyed and burnt up. God bless you.

6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15
After GOD does a work you are In HIM,sounds like you believe a person can remain by first getting In of their own strength.

You WILL remain If GOD does the work creating your spirit perfect.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Agreed, faith accompanied with works and not faith alone.
Not sure what you mean.
Do you mean not faith alone to receive salvation or do you mean not faith alone when we are presenting our bodies a living sacrifice renewing our minds because I believe It Is faith alone through Grace alone to receive salvation but presenting our bodies a living sacrifice (renewing our minds) very well could require physical action?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You always do the right thing, dont you? Are you a hypocrite behind closed doors?. I judge what I see in OSAS gospel yes i have a right too.
OSAS people also have the right to call you you out when you say they believe things they do not. And ask you relevant questions and expect you to answer
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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To be honest I don't find what you have said above as very simple.

I can't connect in my mind they sin through to falling away.

Maybe expand it for me please.
Not sure the element of miss understanding. Please form a question...?
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,903
1,151
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Not sure what you mean.
Do you mean not faith alone to receive salvation or do you mean not faith alone when we are presenting our bodies a living sacrifice renewing our minds because I believe It Is faith alone through Grace alone to receive salvation but presenting our bodies a living sacrifice (renewing our minds) very well could require physical action?
sorry I meant by Grace alone through faith alone.☺️
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,507
5,925
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Well then leave Dan corner alone, he is not even here to defend himself:(
YOU BROUGHT UP THIS HERETIC, NOT US!


Ok. You have gotten fat enough after being here less than a week with an absurd 550 posts, gobbling up attention, time, and true Biblical knowledge with no resulting fruit. I rarely shake the dust, but I for one will no longer feed your attention lust.

I would urge to stop trying to keep yourself saved, and for sure to stop trampling on the Precious Blood of our Beloved Savior, Jesus Christ, and insulting the Spirit of Grace.