Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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This is an intresting question and I give an answear by an Coptic Orthodox viewpoint ( youtube video ).
I try to study my own life as much as possible and want to grow in my faith and here down is a little history from our country by Christian view.
I live in a small northern country ( Finland ). Christianity began to spread to Finland in the 12th century and the practice of ancient religion was banned. Initially Christianity spread to most parts of Finland in Catholic form, but in the 16th century a Reformation, or Lutheran Reformation, was carried out, and since then most Finns have been Lutherans. In some areas, such as part of Ladoga Karelia, Orthodoxy was the predominant religion from the Middle Ages until the Second World War, when much of the Orthodox population in Finland, like other displaced Karelians, had to move elsewhere.
At the end of 2018, 69.8% of Finns were members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church. The second largest denomination is the Orthodox Church, with 1.1%. In the Finnish Constitution, the Lutheran Church has a special status and is governed by a special Church Act. There is also a special law for the Orthodox Church. Access to other religions is guaranteed by law.
According to a survey conducted by the Church Research Center in 2011, 27% of Finns believed in God, as the Christian Church teaches. 23% of Finns believed in God somehow other than the Church teaches. 17% were unsure of their faith and 7% doubted the existence of God. 21% believed there was no God or Gods.
We still have two state churches in Finland, Lutheran and Orthodox.
I try to study my own life as much as possible and want to grow in my faith and here down is a little history from our country by Christian view.
I live in a small northern country ( Finland ). Christianity began to spread to Finland in the 12th century and the practice of ancient religion was banned. Initially Christianity spread to most parts of Finland in Catholic form, but in the 16th century a Reformation, or Lutheran Reformation, was carried out, and since then most Finns have been Lutherans. In some areas, such as part of Ladoga Karelia, Orthodoxy was the predominant religion from the Middle Ages until the Second World War, when much of the Orthodox population in Finland, like other displaced Karelians, had to move elsewhere.
At the end of 2018, 69.8% of Finns were members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church. The second largest denomination is the Orthodox Church, with 1.1%. In the Finnish Constitution, the Lutheran Church has a special status and is governed by a special Church Act. There is also a special law for the Orthodox Church. Access to other religions is guaranteed by law.
According to a survey conducted by the Church Research Center in 2011, 27% of Finns believed in God, as the Christian Church teaches. 23% of Finns believed in God somehow other than the Church teaches. 17% were unsure of their faith and 7% doubted the existence of God. 21% believed there was no God or Gods.
We still have two state churches in Finland, Lutheran and Orthodox.
@Nat2019 you misunderstood my thanks! It was in response to having my questioned answered! I am NEVER thankful when someone is no longer with us for whatever reason! I do understand we are all different and have different ways of receiving what is said! I will not change MY beliefs,for they are based in the word! I will however be more tender and look with forgiving eyes upon what others are saying! Blessings my warrior sister!🌞🌞🌞
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Yes we are all different.
And yes we all have different ways of receiving what is said.
The paradigms we have filter through what we perceive and react accordingly.
That is based on life experiences, biblical teaching that we have been taught.
You are strong in your beliefs as am I.
I assume you are like that because you have spent time studying and therefore state your beliefs.
That is why I do with mine.
I came to the conclusion one day, a wreck of a Christian.
What is it I actually believe?
The next two years were hard.
Paradigms had to be undone and replaced with truth.
Well that was true for me.
I'm not sure it can be done on here but I have always said that we need to try and understand who we respond to.
Not just based on doctrinal belief, but the person, the individual.
Maybe I'm too simplistic regarding this.
But one thing we should always endeavour to do is to not get personal and accuse personally based on one's doctrinal belief.
As you know I believe in ES (not OSAS as such because it's been misconstrued)
So I prefer ES. However that does not connect me to what I have been accused of as a greasy gracer and I can sin all I want and still be saved.
That is abhorrent and I would always come against that.
Said it many times but still been accused of promoting it.
Now I'm using the above to illustrate a personal attack when in fact that is not true.
The fact is we can all post verses backing our theological bent.
One is wrong and one is right.
At the end of the day Jesus will judge that.
And when he does I do think the wrong side will be saved.
Works burned up and escape through the fire.
But as I said. Let's not accuse each other of a person who loves Jesus of promoting something that is contrary to what they actually believe.
You love Jesus, I love Jesus many on here love Jesus.
And all we seek to do is help people to walk like Jesus and become like Jesus.
And yes we all have different ways of receiving what is said.
The paradigms we have filter through what we perceive and react accordingly.
That is based on life experiences, biblical teaching that we have been taught.
You are strong in your beliefs as am I.
I assume you are like that because you have spent time studying and therefore state your beliefs.
That is why I do with mine.
I came to the conclusion one day, a wreck of a Christian.
What is it I actually believe?
The next two years were hard.
Paradigms had to be undone and replaced with truth.
Well that was true for me.
I'm not sure it can be done on here but I have always said that we need to try and understand who we respond to.
Not just based on doctrinal belief, but the person, the individual.
Maybe I'm too simplistic regarding this.
But one thing we should always endeavour to do is to not get personal and accuse personally based on one's doctrinal belief.
As you know I believe in ES (not OSAS as such because it's been misconstrued)
So I prefer ES. However that does not connect me to what I have been accused of as a greasy gracer and I can sin all I want and still be saved.
That is abhorrent and I would always come against that.
Said it many times but still been accused of promoting it.
Now I'm using the above to illustrate a personal attack when in fact that is not true.
The fact is we can all post verses backing our theological bent.
One is wrong and one is right.
At the end of the day Jesus will judge that.
And when he does I do think the wrong side will be saved.
Works burned up and escape through the fire.
But as I said. Let's not accuse each other of a person who loves Jesus of promoting something that is contrary to what they actually believe.
You love Jesus, I love Jesus many on here love Jesus.
And all we seek to do is help people to walk like Jesus and become like Jesus.
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Thank you! I totally agree that at times I have failed to receive what is being said, for one I'm hasty and react immediately,which is WRONG in me! I am praying that I will bear the fruit of the Spirit more and less of my own! I have said this many times I truly love ppl and engaging with them! Plz forgive if I have offended you in any of my sassy replies! I am just forgiven and pressing to make heaven my home! Blessings!
We all do it my sister in Jesus.
Yes if I'm honest you did offended me, just one post you made. But it wasn't made to me but a blanket statement concerning OSAS belivers.
But do you know what?
If I hadn't already been forgiven then I would not be talking to you.
But also there was not anything to forgive because you were not referring to me but a doctrinal belief.
But my paradigm filtered it personally.
Now I don't want you to sit and think "Oh my word what did I say or do?
But I will admit and I'm not sure if you saw it but I did come against you.
No response from you, I assumed you had me on ignore.
But if you did see it and I caused you offence then my sister I ask that you please forgive me as well.
It's interesting, does our culture define how we interact with people, or our upbringing?
Us British people apologise for stuff we do wrong. Quite reserved.
I would say both.
It's great to seek the fruit of the Holy Spirit in us to grow
Let his fruit grow in us and prune us so that the bad fruit is cut off.
We are all forgiven and pressing on.
Because we love Jesus.
To be honest, even if we disagree concerning doctrinally and you were struggling I would be right by your side. I think you would be the same.
I'm ok with you, I hope you're ok with me.
Yes if I'm honest you did offended me, just one post you made. But it wasn't made to me but a blanket statement concerning OSAS belivers.
But do you know what?
If I hadn't already been forgiven then I would not be talking to you.
But also there was not anything to forgive because you were not referring to me but a doctrinal belief.
But my paradigm filtered it personally.
Now I don't want you to sit and think "Oh my word what did I say or do?
But I will admit and I'm not sure if you saw it but I did come against you.
No response from you, I assumed you had me on ignore.
But if you did see it and I caused you offence then my sister I ask that you please forgive me as well.
It's interesting, does our culture define how we interact with people, or our upbringing?
Us British people apologise for stuff we do wrong. Quite reserved.
I would say both.
It's great to seek the fruit of the Holy Spirit in us to grow
Let his fruit grow in us and prune us so that the bad fruit is cut off.
We are all forgiven and pressing on.
Because we love Jesus.
To be honest, even if we disagree concerning doctrinally and you were struggling I would be right by your side. I think you would be the same.
I'm ok with you, I hope you're ok with me.
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Ok remember you did ask! lol I am always honest,as you have seen thru my post,even when it hurts or I am wrong! I see only from my perspective! I live my life as an open book! I have found THIS is the only way to live among ppl! I'm not pretentious,nor do I mind honesty! Correction even when given in love lightens my eye! Blessings unto you! 🌐🌐🌐
You will have to remind me when I forget.
What were we talking about again
What were we talking about again
Ok,Bill,I'm assuming is your name,also remember to not cut me off when I do remind you😂😂😂
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Ephesians 2:8-9 (Study)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
FAITH
Hebrews 11:1-13:25
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. ...
James 2:14-26
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[b] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and (not by faith alone).
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
GRACE
Romans 3:24
And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Titus 2:11-12
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,
Not saved or justified by (works of the Law)- But by Faith
Galatians 3
Faith or Works of the Law
3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c]
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
Hebrews 11:17-19
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[a] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.
REFER TO James 2:14-26
Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[b] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and (not by faith alone).
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
P.S I AM HERE TO LEAD OTHERS TO THE TRUTH, SO I WONT BE REPLYING TO ANY COMMENTS THAT ARE PERSONAL AND I WONT BE REPLYING WITH ANY PERSONAL COMMENTS ANYMORE. THANK YOU
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
FAITH
Hebrews 11:1-13:25
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. ...
James 2:14-26
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[b] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and (not by faith alone).
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
GRACE
Romans 3:24
And are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Titus 2:11-12
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,
Not saved or justified by (works of the Law)- But by Faith
Galatians 3
Faith or Works of the Law
3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c]
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
Hebrews 11:17-19
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[a] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.
REFER TO James 2:14-26
Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[b] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and (not by faith alone).
Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
P.S I AM HERE TO LEAD OTHERS TO THE TRUTH, SO I WONT BE REPLYING TO ANY COMMENTS THAT ARE PERSONAL AND I WONT BE REPLYING WITH ANY PERSONAL COMMENTS ANYMORE. THANK YOU
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CONDITIONAL VERSES REGARDING SALVATION
1Cor 15:2 By this gospel you are saved,if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Col 1:22,23 But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.
Heb 3:6 But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.
Heb 3:14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.
2Tim 2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him.
1Tim 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
1John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.
1John 2:24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
1John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
1John 4:15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
Re 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
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Hi Leastamongmany, I have just been taking a break as I was sick and I also want to study the bible first and give scriptures, rather than go back and forth with personal comments, because no one is really getting anywhere with this and I would like to show people the truth I have found, but that can only be explained through the scriptures alone. I hope you are doing well, I will be praying for you everyday.
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Hi Ruby, I am feeling better. I am just in the library at the moment. How is your knee?
. I am just in the library at the moment. How is your knee?
My knee still has pain but I continue to believe God for his healing. Thanks for asking and glad you are feeling better.
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