Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[mailmandan]

Of course works are a byproduct of Faith.

Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of obtaining salvation.

Its referring to "works" that aren't done for God. Whether by the Law or without Faith in Jesus. Works that are not done for God- cannot save us.

Are you saying that we are saved by “these” works (works done for God) and just not “those” works (works not done for God)? Do you consider works done for God to be works of righteousness?

 

[Guojing]

Rom 10:9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

This is already a condition. The word "if" makes it a condition because if you don't, then the promise is null for you.

Yes, you need to believe to be saved. Abraham also had to leave the place he is from and move to a new place in order to start the unconditional covenant.

Is that really what you want to object to?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It seems like OSAS just want to be "right". I am here to help people learn the truth, not to prove myself in anyway. This is not a competition of who is better.

I use scriptures to back up what I believe and many of these long messages OSAS provide do not even make sense. The bible seems like a lot of confusion to them. I just see a bible verse for what it is and use back up scriptures. To help my understanding. Most messages from OSAS believers look like they just want to be right. Most messages are just personal attacks and wording they use from their OSAS. They all sound exactly the same. And also they are not really providing enough scriptural evidence to back up their beliefs. You have 1 verse with about 10 paragraphs explaining it??????. I think this, I think that. It all a bunch of personal comments about the bible. You only need to write a small paragraph about the explanation. This is why I never read them, because the comments are so long and alot of them dont even make sense.

Popular catch phrases of OSAS

*I am forgiven for my past, present, future sins.
*I have "imputed" righteousness
*All my sins are covered
*Legalism
*Earn salvation
*Working for Salvation
*Deceiver
*Self righteousness
*Righteousness as filthy rags.

Read how many OSAS believers contain these "catch phrases in each post.

Wow and apparently I am brainwashed. All my posts are different to other anti-Osas believers. We all have different posts.

Same can be said of you

Will you for once stop attacking people. And just stick to the word?

There are many NOSAS people who just stand by the word. Use the word to show their viewpoint, and just discuss the word. They do not attack people. Cut them down, Lie about them, Slander them, and the many things that some from BOTH SIDES do. Which just causes division. They just stick to the word.

Can you do this? Or will you continue with your straw-man attacks

I can give you a list of things NOSAS believers, does that prove my point? Of course not. It is just a silly attack.

One thing that does differentiate us.

When NOSAS people ask us questions. We do not hide, We answer them, That ca NOT be said of many NOSAS people. Including yourself.

Before you continue to attack others. You need to look inside.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Have to research that issue. I dont think anyone in Jesus name did prophecy, but they cast out demons. If I am wrong someone please give the scripture

The high priest prophesied.

John 11:51
Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Timothy 2:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

But the new testament says we "must" turn away from wickedness.

Do you not think the LORD knows who are his, and he KNEW that because of their FAITH, he woudl save them, and they WOULD turn from wickedness?

The one main issue between OSAS and NOSAS is Gods omniscience. His knowng all things at all time, past present and future.

God knows, It is why he saved them, Because he KNOWS

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good night everyone, time for me to go now Need to get some rest

Get some rest will pray.

 

[Noose]

Yes, you need to believe to be saved. Abraham also had to leave the place he is from and move to a new place in order to start the unconditional covenant.

Is that really what you want to object to?

No, that's only the beginning.

Then:

Rev 3:11I am comingsoon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

Rev 2: 25Nevertheless, hold fastto what you have until I come. 26And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations

Revelation 22:12"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

Doesn't this mean only those that compete and are victorious in the end will be awarded the price?
A reward is only when effort is put/ effort is the condition here.

 

[Noose]

Yes, you need to believe to be saved. Abraham also had to leave the place he is from and move to a new place in order to start the unconditional covenant.

Is that really what you want to object to?

2 Peter 2:20
If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them.

This verse suggests otherwise. Conditions are there.

 

[Sipsey]

I’ve commented a little, mostly followed the debates. I’m just looking for the most valid responses with context.

It seems to me, the very nature of God is on trial in this debate. Without elaborating I will simply restate a point that was mentioned.

Some see the forgiveness of sins, by Jesus from the cross, as only applicable to presalvation sins. If He did, how could He have selectively forgiven those presalvation sins, and not sins that had yet to be committed? None here was even born yet He forgave our sins.(paid the penalty)

So, is sin even the issue?; or simply a symptom of the real underlying issue, separation from God, with sin as the result?

 

[Chester]

When NOSAS people ask us questions. We do not hide, We answer them, That ca NOT be said of many NOSAS people. Including yourself.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I’ve commented a little, mostly followed the debates. I’m just looking for the most valid responses with context.

It seems to me, the very nature of God is on trial in this debate. Without elaborating I will simply restate a point that was mentioned.

Some see the forgiveness of sins, by Jesus from the cross, as only applicable to presalvation sins. If He did, how could He have selectively forgiven those presalvation sins, and not sins that had yet to be committed? None here was even born yet He forgave our sins.(paid the penalty)

So, is sin even the issue?; or simply a symptom of the real underlying issue, separation from God, with sin as the result?

I agree with you.
We are told the Lord never changes.
His messages and particular encouragements vary depending on who He is addressing.
But the principles remain the same. Justice, faithfulness, mercy, righteousness, love.

Therefore if we are called to be like Jesus, ie that is the purpose of Jesus on the cross,
then this must be an achievable goal, whether we personally have found it or not.

Now the point at which the goal is achieved and how is open for debate, but the priniciple
to be like the Lord in our hearts seems paramount.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Same can be said of you

Will you for once stop attacking people. And just stick to the word?

There are many NOSAS people who just stand by the word. Use the word to show their viewpoint, and just discuss the word. They do not attack people. Cut them down, Lie about them, Slander them, and the many things that some from BOTH SIDES do. Which just causes division. They just stick to the word.

Can you do this? Or will you continue with your straw-man attacks

I can give you a list of things NOSAS believers, does that prove my point? Of course not. It is just a silly attack.

One thing that does differentiate us.

When NOSAS people ask us questions. We do not hide, We answer them, That ca NOT be said of many NOSAS people. Including yourself.

Before you continue to attack others. You need to look inside.

On the point about answering questions, not hiding, clearly EG cannot cope just with putting clear
points in regard to scripture, he gets so angry he has to put me on ignore.

Confusion in positions.
I am righteous, holy and walking in Christ
One means this a pure spirit in a sinful condemned flesh from which they will be rescued.
One means a cleansed purified whole walking as a redeemed Holy Saint with Christ.

This is quite a divide.
Both sides would say the other is wrong and denying the truth of the gospel.
I cannot see how one can cross this belief divide, it is profound in its implications as to
a sinful destructive walk and how in our ministry this is resolved.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
+++
GOD looks at the heart,man looks at outward appearances.

 

[Karraster]

Good night everyone, time for me to go now Need to get some rest

Nat I hope you are feeling better and got some good rest. God bless you.

 

[Guojing]

On the point about answering questions, not hiding, clearly EG cannot cope just with putting clear
points in regard to scripture, he gets so angry he has to put me on ignore.

Confusion in positions.
I am righteous, holy and walking in Christ
One means this a pure spirit in a sinful condemned flesh from which they will be rescued.
One means a cleansed purified whole walking as a redeemed Holy Saint with Christ.

This is quite a divide.
Both sides would say the other is wrong and denying the truth of the gospel.
I cannot see how one can cross this belief divide, it is profound in its implications as to
a sinful destructive walk and how in our ministry this is resolved.

Its because the Bible contains scripture that argue for both sides. Thus, no matter which side you want to believe, you can quote scripture that supports your side.

However, the good thing is that both sides acknowledges the necessity of belief in Jesus's death burial and resurrection. One side argues it is sufficient, the other side argues it is not.

You could say that the other side is in a "safer position". If "faith only" side turns out to be correct, both sides are saved, but if the other side turns out to be correct, then only one side will be saved.

 

[Leastamongmany]

Where is @LW97? He hasn't responded to this thread except to iniate it!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where is @LW97? He hasn't responded to this thread except to iniate it!

He is no longer active either banned or left.

 

[Leastamongmany]

He is no longer active either banned or left.

Thanks!

 

[CharliRenee]

There is a big difference in being a peace maker and pushing appeasement for the sake of religious unity..........people fail to understand the absolute truth that there are numerous diameterically opposing views and gospels on this site.....vast religious differences and too be frank there is a war on this site between truth and lies....that which is biblical and that which is as false as can be....one of the biggest errors is to believe that just because SOMEONE claims Christ that they are of GOD and biblical....two cannot walk together u less agreed.....

A peace maker cannot make peace between truth and lies or true and false......the sword of the truth DIVIDES and cuts ASUNDER......AND that was the point I was making.....the wheat WILL be seperated from the chaff and the end is near....by compromising the truth through appeasement the truth LOSES every time....!!!

I came to this particular post because of something another user kindly suggested.

Definitely something I also will consider and pray about. I definitely do NOT want to be luke warm, wishy washy, an appeaser, or this...A peace maker cannot make peace between truth and lies or true and false....

I do not believe I am guilty of those things, but perhaps my heart deceives me, for in the past, I have been guilty of ppl pleasing.

Today, I read a scripture that pricked my concious's desire to make sure I steer clear of such behavior.

Stop regarding man, whose breath of life is in his nostrils; For why should he be esteemed?
Isaiah 2:22 NASB

And as part of mankind, I need to make sure that I do not to esteem myself a peacemaker, and that if in the name of coming in peace that I don't become an obstacle of chaos, deception or confusion for anyone, including self, that i do not make what is bitter sweet, and what is sweet bitter. He and His truth are not to be played or toyed with. He and His word are worthy of Holy Reverence at all times.

This verse comes to mind...

With whom did He consult and who gave Him understanding? And who taught Him in the path of justice and taught Him knowledge And informed Him of the way of understanding?
Isaiah 40:14 NASB

Well without sounding like a sycophant, I will say this thread today has inspired more prayer, study and reflection. So thank you.

God Bless you all.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The difference between truth and lies, and interpretation and belief.

We must be careful to not condemn simple faith in Jesus's words.
Do those who fall away, are they true believers gone wrong, or appeared
to be one of us, and now moved on?

Once sin distorts ones perspective, the way through gets lost.
The pure in heart will see God.

Our problem is our sin and our lack of communion with Jesus, not listening
to the enemy. The Lords people are defined by one thing, we listen to Jesus.

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
John 10

We are the fellowship of Gods people, no dispute can dominate or overcome the work
of the Holy Spirit in our hearts.

Our strength is in the love of Jesus working in our hearts, and praise God, we bring peace
and love to all who we meet, Amen.