Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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What if one choose not to be baptized? Do they lose their salvation? I know that’s a hypothetical, but I’m sure through history that has occurred.
again this is a hypothetical build on disobeying the Lord. Why would one choose NOT to obey the Lord in getting baptized ?
the question is an oxymoron. One choose not to get baptized which is an act of disobedience then want to know if thy do so will they lose their salvation? Do you see how ill thinking this is with that person?

I will say IF you knowing that Jesus said to be baptized and one does not want to because they know Better than their Lord who was baptized, there is something seriously wrong with the relationship of that person. IF they have been instructed in the word of God and instruction by the Lord Jesus Christ to be baptized after you have believed and they still refuse to be baptized because it is not needed? that is pride arrogance and disobedience . IF that is an example of one saved I would question that very seriously .
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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again this is a hypothetical build on disobeying the Lord. Why would one choose NOT to obey the Lord in getting baptized ?
the question is an oxymoron. One choose not to get baptized which is an act of disobedience then want to know if thy do so will they lose their salvation? Do you see how ill thinking this is with that person?

I will say IF you knowing that Jesus said to be baptized and one does not want to because they know Better than their Lord who was baptized, there is something seriously wrong with the relationship of that person. IF they have been instructed in the word of God and instruction by the Lord Jesus Christ to be baptized after you have believed and they still refuse to be baptized because it is not needed? that is pride arrogance and disobedience . IF that is an example of one saved I would question that very seriously .
But would one be denied salvation is what I’m asking?
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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But would one be denied salvation is what I’m asking?
the question is is one even saved not wanting to obey?
Salvation is denied to know one Jesus Died for all and wants none to parish however, the idea od can I not get baptized even though I know Jesus says to but I really don't want to. I guess we can just apply that to anything

to Homosexuality I guess God was not serious about that, or idol worship, I guess as Long as I asked Jesus to save me I can live in disobedience and claim salvation while willfully sining . That is a very dangerous mindset and not one of regeneration or Christ like. I guess being openly gay as Pete Buttgieig is and claim to be a christian and supports abortion is ok because he says he is a christian. His action do not matter to God God really does not have an issue with a man laying with amen. So why even worry about getting baptized and obeying the Lord we do what we want.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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the question is is one even saved not wanting to obey?
Salvation is denied to know one Jesus Died for all and wants none to parish however, the idea od can I not get baptized even though I know Jesus says to but I really don't want to. I guess we can just apply that to anything

to Homosexuality I guess God was not serious about that, or idol worship, I guess as Long as I asked Jesus to save me I can live in disobedience and claim salvation while willfully sining . That is a very dangerous mindset and not one of regeneration or Christ like. I guess being openly gay as Pete Buttgieig is and claim to be a christian and supports abortion is ok because he says he is a christian. His action do not matter to God God really does not have an issue with a man laying with amen. So why even worry about getting baptized and obeying the Lord we do what we want.
I get what you’re saying, but that’s not answering the question.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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I get what you’re saying, but that’s not answering the question.
I think it has answered and actually (not you) that argument is used by those who want one to say Baptism is needed for salvation . and then use hypotheticals about is one denied salvation. Salvation means : saved delivered and healed. can one be healed and nor be saved? Yep. can one be delivered by God and not be saved? Yep. Can one ask for salvation in prayer and not obey the lord and be really saved ? NOPE!. Your relationship with Jesus is one of obedience and faith. Without faith it is impossible to please Him.
IF you say you love HIM and not OBEY HIM the truth is not in yo.,

John 14: 21
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

Roman 2:8
but for those who are self-seeking[fn] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

2cor 10:5

We destroy arguments(excuse) and every lofty opinion(hypothetical) raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

2 Thess 1:8
in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

2 Thess 3:4
If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.

1John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.

IF one does not obey the Lord because they do not want to then they are not saved, Because a true child of God wants to Obey God.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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again this is a hypothetical build on disobeying the Lord. Why would one choose NOT to obey the Lord in getting baptized ?
the question is an oxymoron. One choose not to get baptized which is an act of disobedience then want to know if thy do so will they lose their salvation? Do you see how ill thinking this is with that person?

I will say IF you knowing that Jesus said to be baptized and one does not want to because they know Better than their Lord who was baptized, there is something seriously wrong with the relationship of that person. IF they have been instructed in the word of God and instruction by the Lord Jesus Christ to be baptized after you have believed and they still refuse to be baptized because it is not needed? that is pride arrogance and disobedience . IF that is an example of one saved I would question that very seriously .
So your point is that God needs our help, in this case water baptism, to complete the salvation process?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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I get what you’re saying, but that’s not answering the question.
I think the main problem is they want to have their cake and eat it at the same time.

They want to use the popular cliche, "its faith alone that saves, but faith that saves is never alone.

To me, that is a circular argument.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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That is a good question The completed work of the cross was not done yet. The only baptism known of water was that of repentance also known as the "baptism of John" you will see that in the book of Acts too after Jesus ascended. Paul confronted this in Acts 19 :3
The Old Testament already said for the unclean to wash their whole body with water and be unclean until evening.
 

Aerials1978

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2019
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I think the main problem is they want to have their cake and eat it at the same time.

They want to use the popular cliche, "its faith alone that saves, but faith that saves is never alone.

To me, that is a circular argument.
Some people still look for justification through sanctification. I’m not say this poster is alluding to that. It’s a concept that is part of certain denominations teachings which is incorrect.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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If you speak in tongues, Paul says you have several gifts. Where's the proof?
The very word of God is all the proof I need.

God uses anyone who is willing to humble themselves and give Him access to their body. It is through these means from the time of Jesus' resurrection throughout history unto today that God is drawing mankind unto Himself.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
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The very word of God is all the proof I need.

God uses anyone who is willing to humble themselves and give Him access to their body. It is through these means from the time of Jesus' resurrection throughout history unto today that God is drawing mankind unto Himself.
The signs and wonders were meant to be seen. We haven't seen any since the epistles showed their demise.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Do a miracle and verify your "tongues" are real according to scripture.
First of all, you err in thinking that individual's that operate in Spiritual gifts are prompting them in and of themselves. The Holy Spirit flowing from an individual is the miracle worker. It is He who distributes for His own purposes.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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The signs and wonders were meant to be seen. We haven't seen any since the epistles showed their demise.
Throughout the corridors of time God has and still does show signs and wonders.

God says having eyes they do not see and having ears they do not hear. Without faith it is impossible to see the wonders of God.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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So your point is that God needs our help, in this case water baptism, to complete the salvation process?
I said that? No I did not. it never ceases to amaze me how one can pull out the air things ones has not said or assume that when is saying something they posted never even makes that point.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
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Throughout the corridors of time God has and still does show signs and wonders.

God says having eyes they do not see and having ears they do not hear. Without faith it is impossible to see the wonders of God.
But nobody sees them. The just hear so and so knows a guy who said so and so did an amazing feat.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
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First of all, you err in thinking that individual's that operate in Spiritual gifts are prompting them in and of themselves. The Holy Spirit flowing from an individual is the miracle worker. It is He who distributes for His own purposes.
And the gifts expired in the Epistles.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
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I said that? No I did not. it never ceases to amaze me how one can pull out the air things ones has not said or assume that when is saying something they posted never even makes that point.
Maybe the poster was saying like this or maybe this is my question lol, if someone has a revelation and starts believing in Jesus and then starts reading about John the Baptist and how what he did was for the remissions of sin if the person doesn’t want to do it, is the person now in jeopardy of losing the relationship with Jesus or say saved to not saved
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,659
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Maybe the poster was saying like this or maybe this is my question lol, if someone has a revelation and starts believing in Jesus and then starts reading about John the Baptist and how what he did was for the remissions of sin if the person doesn’t want to do it, is the person now in jeopardy of losing the relationship with Jesus or say saved to not saved
Hi JamOn,

The point is we must think about what we are suggesting about the word of God and obedience to it.
If someone has a revelation, that does not mean they are saved. There is such a thing as progressive revelation. Growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. Notices they are learning and growing not resulting too disobedience. The word of God says to believe and be baptized. IF you believe on the Lord Jesus you are saved. If you your first act of that confession is to disobey, then it is mostly something is wrong with your confession. Remember saying I believe in Jesus is not a mental acceptance from human reasoning Jesus existed. Even atheist believe Jesus was a real person historically.

Remember Baptism is public confession of your Faith in Jesus. Jesus said if you deny me before men I WILL deny YOU before my Father.
You say you believe? that is good Demons also believe. Baptism is the act of a Public confession OF your faith. Why would you not do it or decide you do not want to? That is not an act of one saved to disobey the Lord.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
4,096
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Hi JamOn,

The point is we must think about what we are suggesting about the word of God and obedience to it.
If someone has a revelation, that does not mean they are saved. There is such a thing as progressive revelation. Growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. Notices they are learning and growing not resulting too disobedience. The word of God says to believe and be baptized. IF you believe on the Lord Jesus you are saved. If you your first act of that confession is to disobey, then it is mostly something is wrong with your confession. Remember saying I believe in Jesus is not a mental acceptance from human reasoning Jesus existed. Even atheist believe Jesus was a real person historically.

Remember Baptism is public confession of your Faith in Jesus. Jesus said if you deny me before men I WILL deny YOU before my Father.
You say you believe? that is good Demons also believe. Baptism is the act of a Public confession OF your faith. Why would you not do it or decide you do not want to? That is not an act of one saved to disobey the Lord.
I haven’t heard any atheists say Jesus was a real person, the ones I have met don’t believe the Bible is real and the people in it.