Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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JamOn

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John the Baptist seems to allude to water baptism as a length of time a duration. John was baptizing what is it that he says must happen what will decrease what is complete. after John was beheaded and Jesus and the disciples move on to other locations baptism are not mention in the four gospels after that, even the adulterious woman who almost got stoned to death never was told now go and sin no more and be baptized in water. she is a key to reasoning also she was never told to be baptized.

John 3
25Then a dispute arose between John’s disciples and a certain Jewg over the issue of ceremonial washing. 26So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”

27John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. 28You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom stands and listens for him, and is overjoyed to hear the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30He must increase; I must decrease.
 

CS1

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I haven’t heard any atheists say Jesus was a real person, the ones I have met don’t believe the Bible is real and the people in it.
I have, in fact many of them insult the man Jesus call him a nut. You may not know this but many atheist read the bible to attack you and formulate their defense against God. The Historical context and narrative is undeniable that Jesus did in fact exist . An atheist can believe their is no God and still agree with the historical Jesus as a person because of Historical documents, archeological findings and geographical locations . This is no difference than any other historical figure we know existed.
 

JamOn

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I have, in fact many of them insult the man Jesus call him a nut. You may not know this but many atheist read the bible to attack you and formulate their defense against God. The Historical context and narrative is undeniable . An atheist can believe their is no God and still agree with the historical Jesus as a person because of Historical documents, archeological findings and geographical locations .
True but I have never met any who claim to believe Jesus was a real person from my experience they deny the whole thing, most say I know say it is made up story
 

JamOn

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I think if baptism is that important to do, then Jesus would have instructed the adulterous woman to do so like wise. Jesus only said go and sin no more. I don’t think His intentions was to say sin no more and go and figure out if you need to be baptized or not.
 

CS1

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True but I have never met any who claim to believe Jesus was a real person from my experience they deny the whole thing, most say I know say it is made up story
and atheist who is ill-informed of history is just stating and opinion and makes them look foolish. it would be the something for a Christian who does not believe in law gravity because the word is not found in the Bible.
 

CS1

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I think if baptism is that important to do, then Jesus would have instructed the adulterous woman to do so like wise. Jesus only said go and sin no more.
why? remember Jesus had the authority to forgive her and he did. Also the Baptism would not mean what IT does Until Jesus Himself was Crucified, buried, and rose again.
 

JamOn

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why? remember Jesus had the authority to forgive her and he did. Also the Baptism would not mean what IT does Until Jesus Himself was Crucified, buried, and rose again.
Fair enough so what did baptism mean before Jesus was Crucified, buried, and rose again? if it meant something else
 

JamOn

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Another question if Jesus has authority to just say your sins are forgiven doesn’t that alone equal to being saved from sin.
 

CS1

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Fair enough so what did baptism mean before Jesus was Crucified, buried, and rose again? if it meant something else
I do not know if you are aware but baptism was a cultural practice if the Jewish faith.

find it in Exod 30:17-21 The word Baptism is not found in the Hebrew writings of the Old Testament. The tradition seems to come about during or after the Babylon exile.
The only Baptism of water that we se in scriptures is that of John which was a baptism of repentance.


Also the word Baptism as systematic range of meaning in the Greek

Baptism: in th Greek has more than one . baptisma = immersion, submersion Matt 3:7
and
of the overwhelming afflictions and judgments to which the Lord voluntarily submitted on the Cross, e.g., Luk 12:50;
and finally of Christian baptism; a rite of immersion in water as commanded by Christ, by which one after confessing his sins and professing his faith in Christ, having been born again by the Holy Spirit unto a new life, identifies publicly with the fellowship of Christ and the church.


Baptized : Greek = baptizō = to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge found in Matt 3:6 and this is the
context of the word "Baptized " in the whole New Testament




Baptizing: the same word is used in the Greek = baptizō Found in John 1:28 however in John 1:33 the word
baptizeth with the Holy Ghost does not mean water. But it is an immersing of or the unclothing of or with the Holy Spirit.

We must look at the context as it is used not only the english word for being dipped or submerged in water. The context and what is best to be used must be applied for proper interpretation.
 

JamOn

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Jun 10, 2019
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I do not know if you are aware but baptism was a cultural practice if the Jewish faith.

find it in Exod 30:17-21 The word Baptism is not found in the Hebrew writings of the Old Testament. The tradition seems to come about during or after the Babylon exile.
The only Baptism of water that we se in scriptures is that of John which was a baptism of repentance.


Also the word Baptism as systematic range of meaning in the Greek

Baptism: in th Greek has more than one . baptisma = immersion, submersion Matt 3:7
and
of the overwhelming afflictions and judgments to which the Lord voluntarily submitted on the Cross, e.g., Luk 12:50;
and finally of Christian baptism; a rite of immersion in water as commanded by Christ, by which one after confessing his sins and professing his faith in Christ, having been born again by the Holy Spirit unto a new life, identifies publicly with the fellowship of Christ and the church.


Baptized : Greek = baptizō = to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge found in Matt 3:6 and this is the
context of the word "Baptized " in the whole New Testament




Baptizing: the same word is used in the Greek = baptizō Found in John 1:28 however in John 1:33 the word
baptizeth with the Holy Ghost does not mean water. But it is an immersing of or the unclothing of or with the Holy Spirit.

We must look at the context as it is used not only the english word for being dipped or submerged in water. The context and what is best to be used must be applied for proper interpretation.
Well I do know somethings that are not in the OT and had happened after the Babylon exile, one of those was the combination of the unleavened bread with Passover. In the OT these days are clearly separate.

I think it’s possible even how the Jewish people was practicing baptism if that is what it was called back then. even that seems was needed to be covered by John leading the way and saying it is complete he must decrease and Jesus increase, John decrease in what way water baptism why because John says he was baptizing people in water but Jesus will baptize people with fire water and fire are vastly different. So if someone is baptize in fire why would a water baptism be needed as well. that is somethings I ponder on about baptisms

Must not die the feet and hands is what touches anything holy in tent so it was needed to wash what touches unclean things the feet and hands.

But from what exodus says, are all people today descendants of Aaron, and their offering was to be made by fire. It is interesting how Jesus says he has a baptism of fire to attend the offering imo


17Again, the LORD said to Moses, 18“You are to make a bronze basin with a bronze stand for washing. Set it between the Tent of Meeting and the altar, and put water in it, 19with which Aaron and his sons are to wash their hands and feet.20Whenever they enter the Tent of Meeting or approach the altar to minister by presenting an offering made by fire to the LORD, they must wash with water so that they will not die. 21Thus they are to wash their hands and feet so that they will not die; this shall be a permanent statute for Aaron and his descendants for the generations to come.”
 

Aerials1978

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I haven’t heard any atheists say Jesus was a real person, the ones I have met don’t believe the Bible is real and the people in it.
They’re just ignorant because there are eternal sources like Tactius and Josephus wrote about Him.
 

JamOn

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They’re just ignorant because there are eternal sources like Tactius and Josephus wrote about Him.
Ignorant in that they probably wouldn’t believe that as well, it would be just another story no matter who speaks on it I think to the atheist just because a Roman historian mentions Jesus I don’t think a light bulb would have gone off in their heads and they say o now I believe Jesus was a real person because a Roman historian said so that doesn’t really make any sense to me.
 

Aerials1978

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Ignorant in that they probably wouldn’t believe that as well, it would be just another story no matter who speaks on it I think to the atheist just because a Roman historian mentions Jesus I don’t think a light bulb would have gone off in their heads and they say o now I believe Jesus was a real person because a Roman historian said so that doesn’t really make any sense to me.
The quote that Jesus said is so true, many don’t even realize they are fulfilling prophecy:

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own
John 15:18
 

JamOn

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The quote that Jesus said is so true, many don’t even realize they are fulfilling prophecy:

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own
John 15:18
I don’t think an atheist would love what a Roman historian had to say. atheist don’t quite work that way if you ask an atheist if they have a soul 99% would say no, the other 1% are probably not really 100% convinced about no spiritual realms but a true atheist they simply don’t believe in spiritual realms. Are the true atheist is what is called reprobate mind possibly it seems would fit.
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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I said that? No I did not. it never ceases to amaze me how one can pull out the air things ones has not said or assume that when is saying something they posted never even makes that point.
You would question someone’s salvation if you know they refused to get water baptised

Thus you are saying you believe baptism is a necessary condition for salvation

It’s the same reasoning as saying oxygen is necessary for fire

No oxygen no fire
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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You would question someone’s salvation if you know they refused to get water baptised

Thus you are saying you believe baptism is a necessary condition for salvation

It’s the same reasoning as saying oxygen is necessary for fire

No oxygen no fire
I am going to place you ignore again because you think you are mind reader. I am not saying any such thing. Nor did I say Baptism is necessary for salvation I said in another post it was not. Please provide your biblical point as to why not being baptized as we are told to do by our Lord because you know better. Please provide from the Bible why not obeying the word of God in context to Baptism is ok because of hypothetical situation. I will say it again

IF one comes to know Christ and discipled in the word of God about Baptism and after knowing what Jesus said about it and thinks they know better and don't want to get baptized There is an issue with their confession and the relationship with God. why even say you are Christian and not obey Gods word? You are stuck on a doctrinal position while not asking the important question What makes you better than our Lord?
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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I am going to place you ignore again because you think you are mind reader. I am not saying any such thing. Nor did I say Baptism is necessary for salvation I said in another post it was not. Please provide your biblical point as to why not being baptized as we are told to do by our Lord because you know better. Please provide from the Bible why not obeying the word of God in context to Baptism is ok because of hypothetical situation. I will say it again

IF one comes to know Christ and discipled in the word of God about Baptism and after knowing what Jesus said about it and thinks they know better and don't want to get baptized There is an issue with their confession and the relationship with God. why even say you are Christian and not obey Gods word? You are stuck on a doctrinal position while not asking the important question What makes you better than our Lord?
You sound like acts 15:1 once again, with water baptism replacing circumcision.

My belief is that water baptism was required for the Jews since the kingdom of God was at hand.

Israel rejected their king so a new grace age began where all are saved by faith only. Water baptism is no longer required.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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You sound like acts 15:1 once again, with water baptism replacing circumcision.

My belief is that water baptism was required for the Jews since the kingdom of God was at hand.

Israel rejected their king so a new grace age began where all are saved by faith only. Water baptism is no longer required.
that is your opinion .

Jesus said the following :

Matthew 28:19-20

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


Mark 16:16

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

The Lord Jesus is the finally on all the word of God for HE is the word of God. Jesus said to believe and be baptized. What you think or I is of no authority. Jesus is the Supreme Authority and HE said to be baptized. IF you know better than you Lord who you claim to know and teach other against what Jesus said to do, I leave you to it. But for me I will do what Jesus said to because it is what Jesus said to do. The games, hypotheticals and ideological positioning does not refute or remove, or nullify the word of the Lord Jesus. You take it up with HIM and Matthew 28:19-20 and Mark 16:16.

Once you have finished those then we can move the Apostles who you too may know more than they.
 

Guojing

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that is your opinion .

Jesus said the following :

Matthew 28:19-20

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


Mark 16:16

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

The Lord Jesus is the finally on all the word of God for HE is the word of God. Jesus said to believe and be baptized. What you think or I is of no authority. Jesus is the Supreme Authority and HE said to be baptized. IF you know better than you Lord who you claim to know and teach other against what Jesus said to do, I leave you to it. But for me I will do what Jesus said to because it is what Jesus said to do. The games, hypotheticals and ideological positioning does not refute or remove, or nullify the word of the Lord Jesus. You take it up with HIM and Matthew 28:19-20 and Mark 16:16.

Once you have finished those then we can move the Apostles who you too may know more than they.
Yes, all of us are discussing different ways in which we understand scripture.

That is how we learn and expand our knowledge. We can agree to disagree
 

Nehemiah6

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My belief is that water baptism was required for the Jews since the kingdom of God was at hand.
That was John's baptism (not identical with Christian baptism). Christian baptism is for the whole world AFTER they believe on Christ.