why would millennial kingdom not be literal?

[Stunnedbygrace]

This is something that takes a little bit of thought.


First, you should ask some simple questions about the passage.

Who is the dragon v 2? (the dragon has 7 heads and 10 horns Rev 12:3, the heads are mts/hills and the horns are kings, Rome).

Who are the nations, that will not be deceived until after the mill time is almost over. (nations in the 4 quarters of the earth, Gog/Magog, the gentile nations v 8-9.)

What are they deceived in to doing? (surrounding the holy city Jerusalem).

Why would the dragon want the gentile nations to surround Jerusalem?

==========

Those who rule with Jesus are ruling from heaven.

One of those beheaded would be John the Baptist. He lived in the wilderness and did not take the mark of Caesar.

He rules our lives by his words, "Behold the lamb of God". Along with Moses, etc.

They are from the 1st resurrection, Paul says that the 1st resurrection is the one where Jesus was the first fruits 1 Cor 15:23-24. When it says the 1st resurrection, it's talking about Jesus' resurrection.

The 2nd resurrection is the rapt/resur of salvation Heb 9:28. This is the resurrection (resur.) spoken of in v 5.

==========

Just some things to think about.

Gm! I haven't read any of your posts in awhile!

I'm conflicted on some of this. (Not what you said, but because in a translation I read somewhere I think it said the verse about them seeing many of their dead walking around after the graves split open is not in older manuscripts and may have been added later.) And yet, it makes perfect sense to me that it would have happened. I wish I had never read the bottom notes at all.

I did hear a man teach that those who rose when the graves split open were a...wave sheath? That the priest would take to the temple ,of the very first wheat that had come up.

Guess I'm not TOO conflicted...I pretty much choose to think the verse was NOT added later. Just wish it was in more than one of the gospels though.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amil does not teach the church replaces Israel, at least I don't. It's a continuation of "true" Israel.

Same difference. I know you can not see it, But to all those who disagree, that is what we see it as.,

Why do you continue to ignore the teachings of Jesus and Paul? A true Israelite is one of no guile and a true son of Abraham is one who has faith in Christ, who is the "seed" (singlar) and sole inheritor of the Promises of God.

I am not ignore them, They have nothing to do with prophesy, Why do you continue to ignore the prophesies so many people have shown which show a literal reign of Christ? (There is death, births, punishments, a literal throne in Jerusalem where nations come to worship the king, rain is still something that the earth needs (used as punishment)

 

[mailmandan]

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g5507

Some people just can't see the fact that the bible contains many Idioms.

2Pe 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand G5507 years, and a thousand G5507 years as one day.

Just because the Bible contains idioms does not mean that everything in the Bible is to be taken as an idiom. In a general sense, 2 Peter 3:8 is simply saying that time is irrelevant to God. What seems like a long time to us is very little time to God, since He is eternal. This does not negate a literal, 1000 year millennium (Revelation 20:2-7). Though the return of Christ seems to be taking forever to us, it is not a long time in God's timing.

Do you subscribe to "replacement theology?"

 

[Snoozy]

this is yet another topic where its important to rightly divide the word of truth or u will be mixed up in all kinds of false doctrines. if u think everytime it says israel in the ot its talking about the church u risk taking their prophecies and applying them spiritually, because few christiasn live in israel so a literal application isnt possible.

they tell us israel is wicked. yes it is. like every other nation. thats why the time of Jacob's trouble exists. it dont make no sense to have a time of purification and judgment on an already holy nation.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

So then how did thei Pierce him, Why did he bleed, How did he die?

They pierced Him because He let them. No one took His life against His will. He laid His life down willingly. It wasn't because He was human and was overpowered. Hard thing to grasp! He could have have called ten thousands of angels had He wanted to and He understood that He could have.

But its a very hard thing to understand that He was fully human AND was God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They pierced Him because He let them. No one took His life against His will. He laid His life down willingly. It wasn't because He was human and was overpowered. Hard thing to grasp! He could have have called ten thousands of angels had He wanted to and He understood that He could have.

But its a very hard thing to understand that He was fully human AND was God.

Amen, But he still had to be fully human to be killed. Walking on water was a miracle. Just like all Miracles jesus did, Accoprtding to him, The HS did all those things.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Amen, But he still had to be fully human to be killed. Walking on water was a miracle. Just like all Miracles jesus did, Accoprtding to him, The HS did all those things.

Yes! It was by the Spirit that He walked on water and performed miracles.

He emptied Himself and yet then filled Himself because it says somewhere the Spirit was given Him without measure. Its so very hard to grasp!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yes! It was by the Spirit that He walked on water and performed miracles.

He emptied Himself and yet then filled Himself because it says somewhere the Spirit was given Him without measure. Its so very hard to grasp!

You know, one of the verses that thrills me is where He said, destroy this temple and I will raise it up again. He didn't say: God will or the Holy Spirit will. He said, I will raise it up again!

 

[mailmandan]

You know, one of the verses that thrills me is where He said, destroy this temple and I will raise it up again. He didn't say: God will or the Holy Spirit will. He said, I will raise it up again!

Yes, Jesus raised Himself up (John 10:17,18); God the Father raised Jesus up (Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37); and even the Holy Spirit is involved in raising Jesus up (Romans 8:11).

 

[abcdef]

Gm! I haven't read any of your posts in awhile!

I'm conflicted on some of this. (Not what you said, but because in a translation I read somewhere I think it said the verse about them seeing many of their dead walking around after the graves split open is not in older manuscripts and may have been added later.) And yet, it makes perfect sense to me that it would have happened. I wish I had never read the bottom notes at all.

I did hear a man teach that those who rose when the graves split open were a...wave sheath? That the priest would take to the temple ,of the very first wheat that had come up.

Guess I'm not TOO conflicted...I pretty much choose to think the verse was NOT added later. Just wish it was in more than one of the gospels though.

1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24. Only 2 resurrections.

Some have 7 resurrections, some 3, etc.

Instead of identifying a resurrection as the 1st (Jesus) or 2nd for salvation (Heb 9:28),

Every time people see a resurrection described, they say, "hear is another one, that makes 4, 5, or 7."

There are only 2.

========

The other problem is that people fail to recognize the iron legs/toes beast/dragon as Rome, and the role Rome has played in the past in regards to Israel.

Rome has persecuted Israel for 2000 years.

Jacob's trouble is about Israel, not the planet, that is why it is called "Jacob's" trouble.

And the things described, most have happened in the past, to Israel after the flesh for rejecting the kingdom.

The pretrib, and the preterists, both deny the Antichrist is Caesar and the Bishop of Rome (BoR).

The iron dragon beast, can ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, be Rome.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Yes! It was by the Spirit that He walked on water and performed miracles.

He emptied Himself and yet then filled Himself because it says somewhere the Spirit was given Him without measure. Its so very hard to grasp!

Here are some thoughts on this that might help you grasp a very important truth about Jesus many fail to understand or see.
These are thoughts to assist not a demand that you believe one or the other.

Philippians 2:5-7

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, [SUP]7 [/SUP]but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Some will say that this passage tells us that Jesus emptied himself of his God powers[ability to do miracles, be omnipresent, omniscience, create, speak things into existence, etc] but he did not empty himself of his divinity.

Some will say that this passage tells us that Jesus emptied himself of his God powers[ability to do miracles, be omnipresent, omniscience, create, speak things into existence, etc] and also emptied himself of his divinity.

Either way, we know form this text that Jesus did not do miracles because of his divinity or that he was the son of God. I will prove this in scripture down below.

Now moving along to Luke 3:22

[SUP]22 [/SUP]and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

The Holy Spirit came upon and within Jesus.

Moving to Luke 4:1

4 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness

We see Jesus was full of the Spirit before being tempted.


Moving to Luke 4:14

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about Him spread through all the surrounding district.

We see after the temptation Jesus returned in the POWER of the Spirit

Do you see the difference between full of and in the power of?

Moving to Luke 4:18-19 and Jesus speaking:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives,
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set free those who are oppressed,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”

Moving to Acts 10:38 and Peter speaking

[SUP]38 [/SUP]You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

By all this we now we can now say with certainty that Jesus:
Emptied himself of his God powers [ability to do miracles, be omnipresent, omniscience, create, speak things into existence, etc] became a man that became anointed with the Holy Spirit and with power.

That Jesus did not perform miracles by his power has the son of God, but by being filled and walking in power of the Holy Spirit.


The Bible says we are to imitate Christ. Many think that stops short of being anointed with power and the Holy Spirit.

This is not true. Jesus is our author and finisher and if he showed he could be anointed with the Holy Spirit and power, and as a human man, then so should we.

Hope this helps.

 

[beastslayer1970]

You know, one of the verses that thrills me is where He said, destroy this temple and I will raise it up again. He didn't say: God will or the Holy Spirit will. He said, I will raise it up again!

John 10:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. [SUP]18 [/SUP]No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Here are some thoughts on this that might help you grasp a very important truth about Jesus many fail to understand or see.
These are thoughts to assist not a demand that you believe one or the other.

Philippians 2:5-7

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, [SUP]7 [/SUP]but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Some will say that this passage tells us that Jesus emptied himself of his God powers[ability to do miracles, be omnipresent, omniscience, create, speak things into existence, etc] but he did not empty himself of his divinity.

Some will say that this passage tells us that Jesus emptied himself of his God powers[ability to do miracles, be omnipresent, omniscience, create, speak things into existence, etc] and also emptied himself of his divinity.

Either way, we know form this text that Jesus did not do miracles because of his divinity or that he was the son of God. I will prove this in scripture down below.

Now moving along to Luke 3:22

[SUP]22 [/SUP]and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

The Holy Spirit came upon and within Jesus.

Moving to Luke 4:1

4 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness

We see Jesus was full of the Spirit before being tempted.


Moving to Luke 4:14

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about Him spread through all the surrounding district.

We see after the temptation Jesus returned in the POWER of the Spirit

Do you see the difference between full of and in the power of?

Moving to Luke 4:18-19 and Jesus speaking:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives,
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set free those who are oppressed,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”

Moving to Acts 10:38 and Peter speaking

[SUP]38 [/SUP]You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

By all this we now we can now say with certainty that Jesus:
Emptied himself of his God powers [ability to do miracles, be omnipresent, omniscience, create, speak things into existence, etc] became a man that became anointed with the Holy Spirit and with power.

That Jesus did not perform miracles by his power has the son of God, but by being filled and walking in power of the Holy Spirit.


The Bible says we are to imitate Christ. Many think that stops short of being anointed with power and the Holy Spirit.

This is not true. Jesus is our author and finisher and if he showed he could be anointed with the Holy Spirit and power, and as a human man, then so should we.

Hope this helps.

This was absolutely excellent and it did help me. Thank you!

 

[prove-all]

John 17:5 (KJV)
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self
with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[plainguy]

I have yet to hear answer to my simple question. I understand it is inconvenient to those that allegorize vast chunks of Scripture, but when did Jesus ever reign from King David's throne?

King David ruled over physical Israel. Christ reigns now and forevermore over spiritual Israel. It needs to be understood that while the bible chronicles the history of "national Israel", it primarily pertains to "spiritual Israel". It seems to me that dispensationalists fail to understand the difference. Thus, they look for Christ's earthly reign on King Davids throne. Jesus openly declared that His kingdom is not of this world. Do you think He was allegorizing ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

King David ruled over physical Israel. Christ reigns now and forevermore over spiritual Israel. It needs to be understood that while the bible chronicles the history of "national Israel", it primarily pertains to "spiritual Israel". It seems to me that dispensationalists fail to understand the difference. Thus, they look for Christ's earthly reign on King Davids throne. Jesus openly declared that His kingdom is not of this world. Do you think He was allegorizing ?

Another one.

Can youy please respond to the many passages (OT) which have been shown, whgich clearly show a physical kingdom rules by CHrist himself?

 

[plainguy]

Another one.

Can youy please respond to the many passages (OT) which have been shown, whgich clearly show a physical kingdom rules by CHrist himself?

One vote for yes ... His kingdom is of this world. And two ... Jesus was allegorizing. Others ??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One vote for yes ... His kingdom is of this world. And two ... Jesus was allegorizing. Others ??

Are youy going to respond to those passages or not?

Jesus kingdom is not of this world. Because he will rule long after this world is gone, and evil is cast to eternal darkness, No one is denying this, However, It does not mean he will not rule on davids throne, which is proven that he will by the passages I asked you to expound on. Now will you or will you just ignore them?

 

[Bookends]

Nope I never said that. Who is drawing for straws?

I said the PEOPLE (nations) Will still be in existence.

Israel Pierced him, If Israel is a nation when he returns. Then Those (the people, or nation) who Pierced him will witness it (and also bear the shame)

You are drawing for straws, for those who pierced HIM, if taken in a wooden literal fashion, could only be those who actually sent Christ to the cross. The state Israel of today or tomorrow did not pierce Him and could can not literally pierce Him again. The context of the whole chapter is now/near future . Although I know you will refute this "shortly take plaice" is actually far into the future, and these churches Christ writes to are "dispensations" in the church age, in which is another unwarranted spiritualization of the text that dispensationist make (maybe not you, but most pre-trib-pre-mill).


When He returns, it's all over for all unbelievers. The fact that the STATE of Israel repents is ludicrous. How many Jews have to repent to qualify for it being a national conversion? 100%? 75? maybe just the leadership? the president? If they do repent, then a earthly temple is not necessary because Christ is the temple. Dispensationalism is the greatest deception in my opinion of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries to infiltrate the church.

Good job Satan, you surely caused a great diversion.

 

[plainguy]

Are youy going to respond to those passages or not?

Jesus kingdom is not of this world. Because he will rule long after this world is gone, and evil is cast to eternal darkness, No one is denying this, However, It does not mean he will not rule on davids throne, which is proven that he will by the passages I asked you to expound on. Now will you or will you just ignore them?

He's ruling now and forevermore ... both here and in the heavenly's. This includes the once earthly throne of King David.

***disclaimer*** ... E.G. does not believe that Jesus' kingdom is of this world but nevertheless, Jesus will still rule from King David's earthly throne for 1,000 years. I can now only assume that Jesus will be ruling over a kingdom and on a throne that is not His own (My kingdom is not of this world)