why would millennial kingdom not be literal?

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Is the millennial kingdom a literal earthly kingdom

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 66.7%
  • No

    Votes: 10 33.3%

  • Total voters
    30

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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Originally Posted by Bookends
Amil does not teach the church replaces Israel, at least I don't. It's a continuation of "true" Israel.
Same difference. I know you can not see it, But to all those who disagree, that is what we see it as.,


which means you haven't even begun to grasp it.





I am not ignore them, They have nothing to do with prophesy, Why do you continue to ignore the prophesies so many people have shown which show a literal reign of Christ? (There is death, births, punishments, a literal throne in Jerusalem where nations come to worship the king, rain is still something that the earth needs (used as punishment)
Because the prophets saw through a glass darkly. It came to them in terms of their own day. But they were prefiguring a greater reality. The coming into the world of God the Son to rise again and rule an everlasting kingdom..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
He's ruling now and forevermore ... both here and in the heavenly's. This includes the once earthly throne of King David.

***disclaimer*** ... E.G. does not believe that Jesus' kingdom is of this world but nevertheless, Jesus will still rule from King David's earthly throne for 1,000 years. I can now only assume that Jesus will be ruling over a kingdom and on a throne that is not His own (My kingdom is not of this world):confused:
in other words, you do not want to discuss scripture. Just your view. Thanks, You just proved you are not reliable.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
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What did God say he reason for choosing the nation was? Was it not to show to all the nations of the earth that God is God?

Yes, we will all agree, one aspect was to show the law. And bear christ

But the OT also states, that when the nations see God bless Israel and Israel follow their God and even the fact God punishes the nations who do Israel bad, that the world will KNOW the Lord God is the Lord God.

You can not really look at history and see when any of those things took place. So either God lied. He was mistaken. He got fooled by Israel and chose the wrong nation. Or he will still fulfill his will


The whole purpose of earthly Israel was to fulfill the most important prophecy made to Human kind in Adam's day, a savior. A byproduct of that was also to reveal some of God's character.

God did not lie, the promises of God are to His "true Children" of faith in Christ comprised of all people, ethnicity has nothing to do with it. The "Land" of Israel is only a type to the anti-type which the anti-type is the four corners of the earth.

Like I said, I pity those who can't see it, and I must stop responding as well before I let this topic steal my joy.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are drawing for straws, for those who pierced HIM, if taken in a wooden literal fashion, could only be those who actually sent Christ to the cross. The state Israel of today or tomorrow did not pierce Him and could can not literally pierce Him again. The context of the whole chapter is now/near future . Although I know you will refute this "shortly take plaice" is actually far into the future, and these churches Christ writes to are "dispensations" in the church age, in which is another unwarranted spiritualization of the text that dispensationist make (maybe not you, but most pre-trib-pre-mill).


When He returns, it's all over for all unbelievers. The fact that the STATE of Israel repents is ludicrous. How many Jews have to repent to qualify for it being a national conversion? 100%? 75? maybe just the leadership? the president? If they do repent, then a earthly temple is not necessary because Christ is the temple. Dispensationalism is the greatest deception in my opinion of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries to infiltrate the church.

Good job Satan, you surely caused a great diversion.
Lol ok

You too do not want to discuss scripture.

Isreal Pierced him, But Thats does not matter, the prophecies which show a LITERAL kingdom no one wishes to discuss.

Amazin.

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
which means you haven't even begun to grasp it.[/B][/COLOR]






Because the prophets saw through a glass darkly. It came to them in terms of their own day. But they were prefiguring a greater reality. The coming into the world of God the Son to rise again and rule an everlasting kingdom..


God spoke the prophesies, Did God get it wrong? The prophets wrote what they were told to write.

I grasp it quite clearly. It is you who does not grasp it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are drawing for straws, for those who pierced HIM, if taken in a wooden literal fashion, could only be those who actually sent Christ to the cross. The state Israel of today or tomorrow did not pierce Him and could can not literally pierce Him again. The context of the whole chapter is now/near future . Although I know you will refute this "shortly take plaice" is actually far into the future, and these churches Christ writes to are "dispensations" in the church age, in which is another unwarranted spiritualization of the text that dispensationist make (maybe not you, but most pre-trib-pre-mill).


When He returns, it's all over for all unbelievers. The fact that the STATE of Israel repents is ludicrous. How many Jews have to repent to qualify for it being a national conversion? 100%? 75? maybe just the leadership? the president? If they do repent, then a earthly temple is not necessary because Christ is the temple. Dispensationalism is the greatest deception in my opinion of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries to infiltrate the church.

Good job Satan, you surely caused a great diversion.
So now I am satan?

And people wonder why these discussions get out of hand and are not worth it.

Way to go man,, Quite christian or you!
 
Nov 23, 2016
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in other words, you do not want to discuss scripture. Just your view. Thanks, You just proved you are not reliable.
Oh, I know the spiel my friend ... I know it all too well. And if God's plan does not unfold per your understanding, then it is He Who is the liar ... and not reliable. Sound about right ?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The whole purpose of earthly Israel was to fulfill the most important prophecy made to Human kind in Adam's day, a savior. A byproduct of that was also to reveal some of God's character.

God did not lie, the promises of God are to His "true Children" of faith in Christ comprised of all people, ethnicity has nothing to do with it. The "Land" of Israel is only a type to the anti-type which the anti-type is the four corners of the earth.

Like I said, I pity those who can't see it, and I must stop responding as well before I let this topic steal my joy.
You need to study more, Over and over God said I will bless you, and the world will know I am the lord.

While the cross was THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect it was not the only one.


if you get your joy over calling people satan and pushing a non salvic theology, You have issues.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Oh, I know the spiel my friend ... I know it all too well. And if God's plan does not unfold per your understanding, then it is He Who is the liar ... and not reliable. Sound about right ?
Your the one who is not responding to bible passages.

I will let you go to believe what you want, Your belief has no bearing on my happiness or my wellbeing.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I guess once again I will have to bow out. As I said, People take these topics to personal. It is amazing how sick some people can get.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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Just because the Bible contains idioms does not mean that everything in the Bible is to be taken as an idiom. In a general sense, 2 Peter 3:8 is simply saying that time is irrelevant to God. What seems like a long time to us is very little time to God, since He is eternal. This does not negate a literal, 1000 year millennium (Revelation 20:2-7). Though the return of Christ seems to be taking forever to us, it is not a long time in God's timing.

Do you subscribe to "replacement theology?"
You missed my point. Using the bible to interpret the bible, please show me where 1000 was used to portray an exact number (excluding the mentions in Revelation of course, assuming it's meant to be taken literally).

Dispensationalism is the real replacement theology, it replaces God's eternal plan of redemption through Christ with a system that could never save a soul.- and which Paul declared OBSOLETE.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
You need to study more, Over and over God said I will bless you, and the world will know I am the lord.

While the cross was THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect it was not the only one.


if you get your joy over calling people satan and pushing a non salvic theology, You have issues.
Common response here, " you need to study more"...And as you, I have studied and it's obvious we come to different conclusions.

I never called you Satan, I only believe you are deceived by him. I am not judging your inward disposition of faith in Jesus Christ. I'm merely congratulating Satan for his diversion. It is not believer effecting, but it does affect perspective and growth.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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God spoke the prophesies, Did God get it wrong? The prophets wrote what they were told to write.


But He was explaining in terms of their day. Isaiah 53 for example remained a mystery until Christ came.

I grasp it quite clearly. It is you who does not grasp it.
No you don't grasp it. You simply take it literally like a child reading c s lewis.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
Yes! It was by the Spirit that He walked on water and performed miracles. :)

He emptied Himself and yet then filled Himself because it says somewhere the Spirit was given Him without measure. Its so very hard to grasp!
I have assumed that when it say that He emptied Himself, it was in reference to ego, self awareness, selfish motives.

Love, is selfless, giving, toward God.

To be filled with the Holy Spirit of God, is to lose our selfish, fleshly mindset, maybe to a point where we forget about ourselves, and only are aware of God.

Adam had no self awareness until he sinned, then he became self aware. Then he had ego, (and love in one mind).

Jesus points to the removal of ego, and a return to a mind and a soul that is in a place where God is All in All. (2nd Adam 1 Cor 15)
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
112
63
"Then they shall look on him whom they pierced."

Fulfilled at the cross Jn 19:36-37.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
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Are youy going to respond to those passages or not?

Jesus kingdom is not of this world. Because he will rule long after this world is gone, and evil is cast to eternal darkness, No one is denying this, However, It does not mean he will not rule on davids throne, which is proven that he will by the passages I asked you to expound on. Now will you or will you just ignore them?
Of course they won't. Their whole theology is based on alegory. If they take anything in Scripture to mean what it says, their entire (mis)understanding of God falls apart.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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I have assumed that when it say that He emptied Himself, it was in reference to ego, self awareness, selfish motives.

Love, is selfless, giving, toward God.

To be filled with the Holy Spirit of God, is to lose our selfish, fleshly mindset, maybe to a point where we forget about ourselves, and only are aware of God.

Adam had no self awareness until he sinned, then he became self aware. Then he had ego, (and love in one mind).

Jesus points to the removal of ego, and a return to a mind and a soul that is in a place where God is All in All. (2nd Adam 1 Cor 15)
I'm not understanding. (Its quite common for me. :D)
How could He empty Himself of ego and selfish motives? He never once sinned, and so He never had selfish motives - or He would have sinned and therefore not been an unblemished lamb.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
Of course they won't. Their whole theology is based on alegory. If they take anything in Scripture to mean what it says, their entire (mis)understanding of God falls apart.
We blasted holes in your eschatology too Marc, take away your gap theory in Daniel 9 and dispensationalism falls apart ( I disproved that theory before using NT evidence).


Anyway, I'll ask you specifically since your so inclined to respond, Who pierced Jesus?

Revelation 1:7;
7 [FONT=&quot]Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him.[/FONT]
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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One vote for yes ... His kingdom is of this world. And two ... Jesus was allegorizing. Others ??
The physical kingdom is not of this [current age], but soon

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Thy Kingdom come

The living Christ is coming as “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
to put down the rebellion of warring nations (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
world-ruling government over all nations (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7).

He pictured Himself as the young nobleman going away (to heaven) to be coronated,
and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27). He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4,
1 Thessalonians 4:16. “If I go and prepare a place [position, office, habitation] for you,
I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also”

In vision, John saw the angels praising Christ at His coming to rule this Earth. They said,

“We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come;
because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned” (Revelation 11:17)

The seventh angel sounds-Kingdoms of this current world become Christs (Rev 11:15)
-Will commit thy government into his hand, established with judgement and jutice.
a father to [the inhabitants] of Jerusalem,and to the house of Judah (Isaiah 22:21)

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of
David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice
from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. (Isaiah 9:7)

Apostle John, in vision, saw a preview of the beginning of that rule and world government
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them…and
they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4).(Isaiah 11:2-4)

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from
another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep[changed beings] from the goats[still mortals]:

Jesus said no one could see or enter into the Kingdom of God until he is born of God
(John 3:3-5). He made plain when one is born of God, he, just as God is, will be spirit.

We have now, as humans, been born of flesh—and therefore we are flesh. But God is
spirit (John 4:24), and when we are born of God—of the Spirit—we shall be spirit
(John 3:6-8). Now, we are earthy—of the earth (1?Corinthians 15:48). We are “flesh
and blood” from the earth—from matter (ver.50)—yet flesh and blood humans cannot
inherit the Kingdom of God . But, as we have borne the image of the earthy—mortal
—human—we shall, when born of God, bear the image of the heavenly—that is, spirit.

Jesus Christ is the firstborn of many brethren (Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:18)
who shall be born of God by a “resurrection” (John 5:25-29; 6:39, 40, 44).

Jesus said: “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will
I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron…” (Rev 2:26-27).

And again, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne [on this Earth]”
(Revelation 3:21; Luke 1:32-33). And, “…we shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:10).

-A Kingdom appointed, made ruler over some cities.

And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;(Luke 22:29)
Some resurrected saints will rule over 10 cities, some over five (Luke 19:17-19)


-the meek shall inherit the earth
Matthew 5:5,Psalms 37:11, Psalms 22:26, 37:9, 22,29

Psalms 25:13 (KJV)
His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.

8Thou didst cause judgment to be heard from heaven; the earth feared, and was still,
9When God arose to judgment, to save all the meek of the earth. Selah.
10Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Abraham is the “ father of the faithful” (see Galatians 3:7)
If we are Christ’s we are Abraham’s children Gal. 3:29

Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith,
and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

the promise, that he [Abraham] should be the heir of the world. Romans 4:13