why would millennial kingdom not be literal?

[Stunnedbygrace]

What a manipulation.

God will not interrogate us about such things, but about our deeds.

Also, you may be wrong, so you should not quote "God", when its your quote only.

The first time you accused me of manipulation, I had no idea who or what you thought I was manipulating. You didn't care to explain what you meant, so I didn't push it.

THIS time, I was being humorous, with the added emoji of rolling my eyes to help it be seen. Since you didn't care to explain your accusation of manipulation the first time, I'll assume you won't explain this time either so I won't bother even asking.

 

[abcdef]

The Body Jesus was crucified in could not pass through walls;

I would think that Jesus could do anything He wanted to. Do you have a scripture that says that He couldn't pass through walls, in His "pre-resurrection" body? ha ha

but his resurrected body could. They can't be exactly the same.

Good thread topic.

 

[MarcR]

I would think that Jesus could do anything He wanted to. Do you have a scripture that says that He couldn't pass through walls, in His "pre-resurrection" body? ha ha



Good thread topic.

Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus is fully God; but in His earthly ministry was fully man.
Anyone who is fully man lacks that capability while he is fully man.

 

[abcdef]

i honestly didnt even know that people existed who didnt think the 1000 year reign of Jesus was not a literal 1000 years on earth. only after i got on the computer i heard about it for the first time. this is the truth.


i think its literal but if someone were to prove to me its not from the bible id believe it of course.

but i wanna ask all of u who dont think its literal, why would it not be? is there a single reason for not taking the millennial kindgom as a literal kingdom on earth? any biblical reason whatsoever?? or is it just that people dont like the idea of it? whats the problem here?

This is something that takes a little bit of thought.


First, you should ask some simple questions about the passage.

Who is the dragon v 2? (the dragon has 7 heads and 10 horns Rev 12:3, the heads are mts/hills and the horns are kings, Rome).

Who are the nations, that will not be deceived until after the mill time is almost over. (nations in the 4 quarters of the earth, Gog/Magog, the gentile nations v 8-9.)

What are they deceived in to doing? (surrounding the holy city Jerusalem).

Why would the dragon want the gentile nations to surround Jerusalem?

==========

Those who rule with Jesus are ruling from heaven.

One of those beheaded would be John the Baptist. He lived in the wilderness and did not take the mark of Caesar.

He rules our lives by his words, "Behold the lamb of God". Along with Moses, etc.

They are from the 1st resurrection, Paul says that the 1st resurrection is the one where Jesus was the first fruits 1 Cor 15:23-24. When it says the 1st resurrection, it's talking about Jesus' resurrection.

The 2nd resurrection is the rapt/resur of salvation Heb 9:28. This is the resurrection (resur.) spoken of in v 5.

==========

Just some things to think about.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Body Jesus was crucified in could not pass through walls; but his resurrected body could. They can't be exactly the same.

Hello MarcR,

I agree completely. He was resurrected in the same body that he was crucified in, but immortal and glorified taking on heavenly/spiritual abilities. I'm pretty sure that I made that quite clear. In the same way, those who die in Christ will also rise at the resurrection and they too will be in the same bodies except with a heavenly upgrade, from mortal to immortal, from a body of dishonor to a glorified body, from a body of weakness, to body raised in power.


The proof of Christ being raised in the same body that he was crucified in, is demonstrated by the fact that when the women went to the tomb scripture states that they did not find his body. The angel told the women who were looking for his body that he was not there because he had risen. He was walking around in it.

Another proof is when he appeared behind locked doors and his disciples were afraid because they thought he was a spirit, where at which time he says "look and my hands and my feet," i.e., look at my nail marks. It is I myself.

To be clear, if a believer was to die the day before the resurrection took place and his body was lying in the morgue, the next day when the resurrection took place, his body would no longer be there, because he would have risen in it taking on those heavenly qualities previously listed.

Since I see that you are also one who studies the word of God, I'm sure that you are aware that the word "anastasis" translated as "to stand up again (bodily)" also demonstrates that at the time of the resurrection God will reanimate our current bodies with those immortal and glorified characteristics.

Another proof is seen in the fact that scripture states that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked, stating that "all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out." The fact that they will be coming out of their graves would demonstrate that God uses the original body, reanimating the molecules and atoms, but with a heavenly upgrade.

 

[garee]

I would think that Jesus could do anything He wanted to. Do you have a scripture that says that He couldn't pass through walls, in His "pre-resurrection" body? ha ha



Good thread topic.

Scripture like flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. as if God was a man like us to begin with?

 

[abcdef]

Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus is fully God; but in His earthly ministry was fully man.
Anyone who is fully man lacks that capability while he is fully man.

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll just say this, Jesus did walk on water, I'm sure going through walls would be no problem.

 

[garee]

Hello MarcR,

I agree completely. He was resurrected in the same body that he was crucified in, but immortal and glorified taking on heavenly/spiritual abilities. I'm pretty sure that I made that quite clear. In the same way, those who die in Christ will also rise at the resurrection and they too will be in the same bodies except with a heavenly upgrade, from mortal to immortal, from a body of dishonor to a glorified body, from a body of weakness, to body raised in power.


The proof of Christ being raised in the same body that he was crucified in, is demonstrated by the fact that when the women went to the tomb scripture states that they did not find his body. The angel told the women who were looking for his body that he was not there because he had risen. He was walking around in it.

Another proof is when he appeared behind locked doors and his disciples were afraid because they thought he was a spirit, where at which time he says "look and my hands and my feet," ergo, look at my nail marks. It is I myself.

To be clear, if a believer was to die the day before the resurrection took place and his body was lying in the morgue, the next day when the resurrection took place, his body would no longer be there, because he would have risen in it taking on those heavenly qualities previously listed.

Since I see that you are also one who studies the word of God, I'm sure that you are aware that the word "anastasis" translated as "to stand up again (bodily)" also demonstrates that at the time of the resurrection God will reanimate our current bodies with those immortal and glorified characteristics.

Another proof is seen in the fact that scripture states that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked, stating that "all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out." The fact that they will be coming out of their graves would demonstrate that God uses the original body, reanimating the molecules and atoms, but with a heavenly upgrade.

Souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, came out of their graves when Christ said it was finished.. they entered the new Jerusalem prepared as the bride of Christ ,the first resurrection. Many angels witnessed the event. Those on earth as a parable witnessed a earthquake and the Sun disappear behind the moon as a precursor of the new heavens and earth. no time keepers needed.

Eternal God remains without mother or father beginning of Spirit life or end of it. The one time promised demonstration revealed in Isaiah 53 is over the time of refomation had come. . God is not a man as us, and neither is there any infallible interpreter as that seen in the flesh to stand between God not seen and man seen.

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, came out of their graves when Christ said it was finished.

I'm sorry to say garee, but you have no idea what the word of God is saying. If you are referring to Rev.20:4-6, this is in reference to the great tribulation saints who will have been beheaded during that last 3 1/2 years for not worshiping the beast, his image and not receiving his mark and who will resurrect after Christ returns to the earth to end the age. Furthermore, those people who came out of their graves after Jesus resurrected died again.

The first resurrection has indeed taken place with Jesus being the first fruits of the first resurrection with the church being next. No one else has yet ascending in a resurrected body and that because Jesus was the first fruits. The resurrection and the transformation of the living church is the next event that will take place.

If you would come down off of your spiritual cloud and actually read the word of God at face value, you might understand what it is saying, As it is, you are just adding to the false teachings that continue to discredit the word of God.

Those on earth as a parable witnessed a earthquake and the Sun disappear behind the moon as a precursor of the new heavens and earth. no time keepers needed.

The events above take place in conjunction with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, which have yet to be fulfilled.

God is not a man as us, and neither is there any infallible interpreter as that seen in the flesh to stand between God not seen and man seen.

Scripture would disagree with you:

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all people"

Jesus rose in the same body that he walked upon this earth in, being glorified. It is that same body of flesh and bone that he ascended in and that sits at the right hand of God the Father in and is the same body that he will return to the earth in to end the age. I would repeat what the Lord said when the disciples saw him and thought that they had seen a spirit: "Look at my hands and my feet. A spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have."

 

[mailmandan]

Question: "What is the Millennial Kingdom, and should it be understood literally?"

Answer: The millennial kingdom is the title given to the 1000-year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. Some seek to interpret the 1000 years in an allegorical manner. They understand the 1000 years as merely a figurative way of saying “a long period of time,” not a literal, physical reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. However, six times in Revelation 20:2-7, the millennial kingdom is specifically said to be 1000 years in length. If God wished to communicate “a long period of time,” He could have easily done so without explicitly and repeatedly mentioning an exact time frame.

The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic Covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian Covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic Covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13).

At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3).

Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom. Even without these scriptures, there are countless others that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1000 years.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennium.html

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you saying that those who (Jews and Romans) pierced Him will be resurrected when He returns? The Jews in the future did not literally pierce Jesus either.

Is Jesus going to be pierced twice?

Drawing for straws!!!

Nope I never said that. Who is drawing for straws?

I said the PEOPLE (nations) Will still be in existence.

Israel Pierced him, If Israel is a nation when he returns. Then Those (the people, or nation) who Pierced him will witness it (and also bear the shame)

 

[Bookends]

Question: "What is the Millennial Kingdom, and should it be understood literally?"

Answer: The millennial kingdom is the title given to the 1000-year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. Some seek to interpret the 1000 years in an allegorical manner. They understand the 1000 years as merely a figurative way of saying “a long period of time,” not a literal, physical reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. However, six times in Revelation 20:2-7, the millennial kingdom is specifically said to be 1000 years in length. If God wished to communicate “a long period of time,” He could have easily done so without explicitly and repeatedly mentioning an exact time frame.

The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic Covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian Covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic Covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13).

At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3).

Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom. Even without these scriptures, there are countless others that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1000 years.

https://www.gotquestions.org/millennium.html

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g5507


Some people just can't see the fact that the bible contains many Idioms.

2Pe 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand G5507 years, and a thousand G5507 years as one day.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ is the apple of God's eye. Everything about Israel points to Christ, the name, the law, the temple etc. The bible is about God's plan of redemption, not is about God having favorites and resurrecting a physical nation Israel..

I really have pity on those Chirstians who can't see themselves as the children of Abraham, recipients of the Promises made to Christ and belonging to the whole Israel of God.

What did God say he reason for choosing the nation was? Was it not to show to all the nations of the earth that God is God?

Yes, we will all agree, one aspect was to show the law. And bear christ

But the OT also states, that when the nations see God bless Israel and Israel follow their God and even the fact God punishes the nations who do Israel bad, that the world will KNOW the Lord God is the Lord God.

You can not really look at history and see when any of those things took place. So either God lied. He was mistaken. He got fooled by Israel and chose the wrong nation. Or he will still fulfill his will

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is something that takes a little bit of thought.


First, you should ask some simple questions about the passage.

Who is the dragon v 2? (the dragon has 7 heads and 10 horns Rev 12:3, the heads are mts/hills and the horns are kings, Rome).

Who are the nations, that will not be deceived until after the mill time is almost over. (nations in the 4 quarters of the earth, Gog/Magog, the gentile nations v 8-9.)

What are they deceived in to doing? (surrounding the holy city Jerusalem).

Why would the dragon want the gentile nations to surround Jerusalem?

==========

Those who rule with Jesus are ruling from heaven.

One of those beheaded would be John the Baptist. He lived in the wilderness and did not take the mark of Caesar.

He rules our lives by his words, "Behold the lamb of God". Along with Moses, etc.

They are from the 1st resurrection, Paul says that the 1st resurrection is the one where Jesus was the first fruits 1 Cor 15:23-24. When it says the 1st resurrection, it's talking about Jesus' resurrection.

The 2nd resurrection is the rapt/resur of salvation Heb 9:28. This is the resurrection (resur.) spoken of in v 5.

==========

Just some things to think about.

Look to daniel and the final gentile kingdom. You will see they resemble each other. Revelation is just an updated daniel with even more information.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll just say this, Jesus did walk on water, I'm sure going through walls would be no problem.

So then how did thei Pierce him, Why did he bleed, How did he die?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g5507


Some people just can't see the fact that the bible contains many Idioms.

2Pe 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand G5507 years, and a thousand G5507 years as one day.

no actually they can see it. They just actually KNOW that not all terms are used as idioms.

Is it an idiom? You can not prove it

Is it not? We can not prove it (by the term 1000 itself)

so all we can do is go to context. That is where our differences lie

The Amill believes the church replaced Isreal. That GFod is done with Isreal. And we are thus living in the millennium which is nit really a millennium

The pre-Mil Believes God still has a plan. There is still unffulfilled prophesy, That God will keep his promise to isreal. And that The messiah will fulfill ALL the messianic prophesies (literal)

 

[Snoozy]

i think the premillennial position is right because thats how the chapter reads its very simple and straightforward. u can teach that to anyone.

 

[Bookends]

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g5507


Some people just can't see the fact that the bible contains many Idioms.

2Pe 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand G5507 years, and a thousand G5507 years as one day.

With that said; Translators are not infallible.


[FONT=&quot]20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for "plural of uncertain affinity" years;

[/FONT]4 [FONT=&quot]And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then [/FONT]I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for "plural of uncertain affinity" years.

 

[Bookends]

no actually they can see it. They just actually KNOW that not all terms are used as idioms.

Is it an idiom? You can not prove it

Is it not? We can not prove it (by the term 1000 itself)

so all we can do is go to context. That is where our differences lie

The Amill believes the church replaced Isreal. That GFod is done with Isreal. And we are thus living in the millennium which is nit really a millennium

The pre-Mil Believes God still has a plan. There is still unffulfilled prophesy, That God will keep his promise to isreal. And that The messiah will fulfill ALL the messianic prophesies (literal)

Amil does not teach the church replaces Israel, at least I don't. It's a continuation of "true" Israel.


Why do you continue to ignore the teachings of Jesus and Paul? A true Israelite is one of no guile and a true son of Abraham is one who has faith in Christ, who is the "seed" (singlar) and sole inheritor of the Promises of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Other uses of chilioi

Luke 14: 31 or what king is going to make war with another king , does not sit down and consider whether he is able with ten THGOUSAND to meet him who comes against him with twenty THOUSAND

Acts 4: 4 many of those who heard the word and believed; and the number of the men came to be about 5 THOUSAND

1 cor 10:8: Nor let us commit sexual morality, as some of them did, and in one day 23 THOUSAND fell

Rev 5: 11: ...and the number of them (angels) was 10 THOUSAND times 10 THOUSAND

Rev 7: 4-8 And the number of them were 144 THOUSAND

rev 11:3 They will prophesy 1 THOUSAND 263 Days

Rev 11:13 Gereat earthquake, 7 THOUSAND people were killd

Rev 21:6 And he measured the city with a reed, 12 THOUSAND furlongs was its length.

2 Peter 3: 8 with the Lord one day is like a THOUSAND years, and a TYHOUSAND years as one day

In Roman military chilioi combined with Apxw is used to form a word which means a commander of a THOUSAND soldiers.

While it MAY mean “a plural of uncertain affinity, It has been established, It can also mean 1000