why would millennial kingdom not be literal?
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Snoozy,
Maybe you disagree with me, that's OK. Think about things for yourself.
The one thing I want to do, is make you think. That's why you came to CC isn't it? To learn and to talk about things?
I want to give you some options, that you might not have thought about before.
If nothing else, you will be confirmed in your beliefs, or you will have to reconsider them.
The understanding of scripture is given by the Holy Spirit, so I can't make you understand, that is His part.
It is my part to keep giving the relationship and understanding as much as I can.
I am just a person, one person.
But I believe that these things in the scriptures can be reasoned out, understood.
And through this reasoning process, we both can learn, increase in knowledge, and understanding.
And so, the questions that you are asking, the things you want to know, the answers are there if you can focus on the scripture and have an open mind.
Listen to what people say, think about it.
Maybe you disagree with me, that's OK. Think about things for yourself.
The one thing I want to do, is make you think. That's why you came to CC isn't it? To learn and to talk about things?
I want to give you some options, that you might not have thought about before.
If nothing else, you will be confirmed in your beliefs, or you will have to reconsider them.
The understanding of scripture is given by the Holy Spirit, so I can't make you understand, that is His part.
It is my part to keep giving the relationship and understanding as much as I can.
I am just a person, one person.
But I believe that these things in the scriptures can be reasoned out, understood.
And through this reasoning process, we both can learn, increase in knowledge, and understanding.
And so, the questions that you are asking, the things you want to know, the answers are there if you can focus on the scripture and have an open mind.
Listen to what people say, think about it.
Very clever but to no purpose.
Jesus coming on the clouds refers to His second coming; which most believers (including me) believe to be future.
The words in Zec 14 " you shall look on me whom you have pierced" obviously are addressed to national Israel after the 1947 restoration and before Jesus return; so your opening statement is just word play. Why bother?
The gap in Daniel 9 is not mine in that I can't take credit for it. I am still at liberty to believe it.
Paul and John clearly state that at least 1 or all 6 "conditions" in Daniel 9:24 have been met. Making an unsupported statement is so easy even a 3 year old can do it. You are obviously intelligent enough to realize how meaningless it is.
Da 9:24-27
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV
In verse 24, what you appear to be calling 6 conditions, I see as the sixfold purpose of Jesus' first coming.
In verse 25, assuming Ezra received the command to rebuild the wall in 441 B.C, 49 years (7 weeks) to complete the task would take us to 392 B.C.
in verse 26, Sixty weeks (420 years) later takes us to 28 A.D.
Since the census in the year of Jesus birth was almost certainly in 5 B.C, and Jesus' ministry began 30 years later (25 A.D.), and continued 3 years until 28 A.D. the prophesy is right on schedule.
Vespasian and/ or Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD; IMO during the gap.
In verse 27 Sometime after the city is destroyed (still in the gap) sacrifice is to resume in a restored nation of Israel
We then read that (He) shall make a covenant for a week. indicating the end of the gap and the onset of the last 7 years.
It seems likely that( He) refers to the same nation that destroyed Jerusalem, which would be Rome or a successor to Rome.
If Daniel's ten horned beast represents the charter members of the European Common Market; this would be almost identical with Charlemagne's Holy Roman Empire, and hence Rome's successor.
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Dispensations are a convenient way of looking at God's dealings with mankind that many find helpful.
Coming from a Jewish background, and retaining a large portion of a Jewish way of thinking, I can't seem to make it work for me. I have no ill will to those who find it helpful.
I think that many tend to link dispensationalism with limited atonement. I believe that it is the concept of limited atonement that many dislike. I disagree with limited atonement; but, have no bad feelings toward my brothers and sisters who think that way.
I believe that the first coming was to rescue mankind from the consequence of sin.
I believe that Jesus second coming will be to reign over His creation.
He will also judge those who reject his claim on their lives.
I do not believe that the Church will experience the wrath of God.
I personally believe that it will occur after the sixth seal is opened but before the seventh seal is opened.
I have no quarrel with those who believe it will happen earlier other than that I disagree.
I believe that the first 5 seals are already open.
I believe that Jesus second coming will be to reign over His creation.
He will also judge those who reject his claim on their lives.
I do not believe that the Church will experience the wrath of God.
I personally believe that it will occur after the sixth seal is opened but before the seventh seal is opened.
I have no quarrel with those who believe it will happen earlier other than that I disagree.
I believe that the first 5 seals are already open.
Amen Brother.
7th trumpet? Jesus coming for the kingdom?
Which judgement is this? At the coming of Jesus for the kingdom?
The wrath of the 2nd, eternal death, yes. The time of Jacob's trouble, no. Only Israel after the flesh suffers God's withdrawing of blessings during this time for rejecting the kingdom. The Pentecost kingdom enjoys the Holy Spirit with God.
I did ask you about that before briefly. What would be the trumpets then?
I believe that also, except that I believe that the 7th seal and 6 trumpets have already blown.
7th trumpet? Jesus coming for the kingdom?
Which judgement is this? At the coming of Jesus for the kingdom?
The wrath of the 2nd, eternal death, yes. The time of Jacob's trouble, no. Only Israel after the flesh suffers God's withdrawing of blessings during this time for rejecting the kingdom. The Pentecost kingdom enjoys the Holy Spirit with God.
I did ask you about that before briefly. What would be the trumpets then?
I believe that also, except that I believe that the 7th seal and 6 trumpets have already blown.
Snoozy.... Maybe and Maybe NOT......On the Emmaus Road, the disciples did not know Jesus. WHY.... I think this is because of the Brutality of the Roman soldiers while they were beating him.
We see in Rev 4:3..."And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone:"
Rev 5:6.."......stood a Lamb as it had been slain, ......"
Zech. 13:6. .."When He returns to Israel they ask Him, "What is the meaning of the wounds in your hands?"
There are many others but the Lamb as slain was a horrible sight. How will we see him. I suspect as John in Rev 4:3 sees him. We are in Heaven here as the 24 Elders are sitting on their thrones..They represent the Church.
Blessings
Blade
We see in Rev 4:3..."And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone:"
Rev 5:6.."......stood a Lamb as it had been slain, ......"
Zech. 13:6. .."When He returns to Israel they ask Him, "What is the meaning of the wounds in your hands?"
There are many others but the Lamb as slain was a horrible sight. How will we see him. I suspect as John in Rev 4:3 sees him. We are in Heaven here as the 24 Elders are sitting on their thrones..They represent the Church.
Blessings
Blade
1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.
1st resurrection.....Jesus. We agree on that.
Second resurrection.... Those at his coming, Heb 9:28, the coming unto salvation. Rapt/resur.
Death is destroyed, all enemies.
Then it is the end. Jesus delivers the kingdom to God the Father.
Father All in All.
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The great white throne happens after the coming for those who are his.
Then death is destroyed.
So there can't be a resurrection after death is destroyed, when Jesus delivers up the kingdom to the Father.
That means according to Paul, that there is Jesus, and those at his coming, 2 resurrections.
That would mean that the resurrections described in Rev 20, are literally,the 1st resurrection of Jesus, and the 2nd when He comes for the kingdom.
I have a question for you: How does Satan offer the Lord all the kingdoms of the world, if the devil is not reigning on earth (Luke 4:5-6; Matthew 4:8-9)?
Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.