Wine???

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NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,919
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47
#42
I drink occasionally. But I don't do it to the extent of (or for the purpose of) getting drunk. :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
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#43
I believe one of the reasons Jesus turned water into wine was, being His first miracle, it was in type the same miracle Moses performed as he turned water into blood. Wine in the Bible is a type of blood. It was a miracle showing the beginning of His ministry of "setting the people free".

Genesis 49:11, Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
now that is interesting! thank you for bringing this to our attention!

don't let's pick and choose which parts of this to read, though.

this saying is from Jacob, prophetically blessing his sons:

The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes,
And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.
He ties his foal to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine;
He washes his garments in wine,
And his robes in the blood of grapes.
His eyes are dull from wine,
And his teeth white from milk.

(Genesis 49:10-12)

verse 12 -- what you left out -- "
His eyes are dull from wine"
that sounds uncomfortable to exegete, especially so for a "dry"

who has understanding?
what does it mean??



 

Test_F_i_2_Luv

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2009
1,601
31
48
#44
Wine taste like hell. Look to your left for evidence.
That's the way I feel about coffee. Stuff tastes awful.

Roughly 83% of those in the USA disagree with me, though.

Doesn't make them wrong. :p

Look to the lef..uhhh...statistics for evidence.

 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#45
Wine in the Bible is a type of blood.

perhaps more clearly, it is associated with rejoicing, with joy and gladness ((Psalm 104:15, for example -- and even in the Law, Deuteronomy 14:25-26)).
which fits very well with what you went on to say, doesn't it?


It was a miracle showing the beginning of His ministry of "setting the people free".

Genesis 49:11, Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

"
setting the people free" -- by His own blood, which we now in remembrance perform a sign of drinking -- with joy and thanksgiving, knowing that by this blood we are free -- which blood He said is "real drink" ((John 6:55)). certainly, people who are made free are glad, and give thanks, and rejoice! :D

and the apostles say, "
be filled with the Spirit" in direct contrast to being drunk with wine, clearly natural wine. but we drink another kind of "wine" in Him, His own blood, don't we?

another thing the scripture tells us of those who are filled with wine -- that they desire it, "
when will i wake up, so i can get another drink?" but us - are we satisfied, and thirst no more? or do we thirst for Him continually?
and the scripture says, "
they struck me, but i was not hurt; they beat me, but i did not know" ((Proverbs 23:35))
is there a figure here too? when the enemy assails us, are we harmed? does the Spirit insulate us, by joining Him in His death - does death sting, any more, or are we made similarly numb?

"His eyes are dull from wine, and his teeth white from milk."

wow

isn't this speaking of the Christ?
what does this mean?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,819
25,997
113
#46
now that is interesting! thank you for bringing this to our attention!

don't let's pick and choose which parts of this to read, though.

this saying is from Jacob, prophetically blessing his sons:

The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes,
And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.
He ties his foal to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine;
He washes his garments in wine,
And his robes in the blood of grapes.
His eyes are dull from wine,
And his teeth white from milk.

(Genesis 49:10-12)

verse 12 -- what you left out -- "
His eyes are dull from wine"
that sounds uncomfortable to exegete, especially so for a "dry"

who has understanding?
what does it mean??
Water being turned into wine has an even deeper symbolism when you consider that the ministry of Jesus' miracles started at a wedding, and the Bible ends with our marriage union to Him at the end of the age. Also, the water jugs that held the water were for ceremonial cleansing under the law which Jesus replaces with what symbolizes His shed blood... for the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,819
25,997
113
#47
perhaps more clearly, it is associated with rejoicing, with joy and gladness
Also with sorrowing and mourning, Proverbs 31:6-7

Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.

Though more often than not the cause of distress as per
Proverbs 23:29-35

Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine. Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. In the end it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder. Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart utter perverse things.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#48
Also with sorrowing and mourning, Proverbs 31:6-7

Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.
Though more often than not the cause of distress as per Proverbs 23:29-35

Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine. Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. In the end it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder. Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart utter perverse things.

as a balm which addresses misery in the first case, and in the second, the misery is brought on by tarrying over it.

Solomon also wrote, that with much wisdom is much sorrow - and that wisdom should be pursued, the implication being that it should be prized higher than happiness and far more than pleasure. so the one who drinks and drinks, and chases after that "balm" damages themselves, and trades wisdom for it.

when a snare is set, good food is set on it, as bait.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
#49
That's the way I feel about coffee. Stuff tastes awful.

Roughly 83% of those in the USA disagree with me, though.

Doesn't make them wrong. :p

Look to the lef..uhhh...statistics for evidence.

Thats a picture of a young man at his wedding, disgusted by the taste of wine they toasted with.
 

Test_F_i_2_Luv

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2009
1,601
31
48
#50
Thats a picture of a young man at his wedding, disgusted by the taste of wine they toasted with.
I figure that.

Probably wouldn't be hard for me to find a picture of a newlyweds enjoying a glass of wine. :p

I'll stick with the picture of my abstinence ring, though. :eek:
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,639
1,392
113
#51
Just curious, how does Proverbs 20:1 point to excess use? Is wine a mocker?
well, it says whoever is intoxicated by it.... that seems to point to excess....

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler,
And whoever [SUP][a][/SUP]is intoxicated by it is not wise.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The terror of a king is like the growling of a lion;
He who provokes him to anger [SUP][b][/SUP]forfeits his own life.
NASB
 

Test_F_i_2_Luv

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2009
1,601
31
48
#52
I recently had a Christian tell me that Jesus didn't drink wine. That He drank grape juice. So I guess did Jesus turn water into wine or grape juice?
At one time("in the beginning"), it was indeed grape juice, that He drank. :eek:
 
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hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,639
1,392
113
#53
I believe one of the reasons Jesus turned water into wine was, being His first miracle, it was in type the same miracle Moses performed as he turned water into blood. Wine in the Bible is a type of blood. It was a miracle showing the beginning of His ministry of "setting the people free".

Genesis 49:11, Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
While that is an interesting "take" on it, it doesn't line up with scripture. Jesus' mother asked (told?) him to help out. It was a wedding feast, and they were out of strong wine. Jesus made more for them, after trying to get his mother to let him off the hook.. who, like most mothers, wouldn't do.

Trying to make it a "symbolical" thing seems to be looking for something that wasn't there.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
#54
I recently had a Christian tell me that Jesus didn't drink wine. That He drank grape juice. So I guess did Jesus turn water into wine or grape juice?
This I know- Jesus would never promote drunkenness, and as far as it depends on us we are to use pure fruit of the vine to represent His pure blood without sin- that means grape juice, not alcohol.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,647
13,121
113
#55

Eat honey, my son, for it is good;
honey from the comb is sweet to your taste.

(Proverbs 24:13)

Have you found honey? Eat only what you need,
That you not have it in excess and vomit it.

(Proverbs 25:16)
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
76
#56
I recently had a Christian tell me that Jesus didn't drink wine. That He drank grape juice. So I guess did Jesus turn water into wine or grape juice?
Can you imagine the wedding guests at Cana praising the Groom for saving the best Grape Juice until last? I cant
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,819
25,997
113
#57
I figure that.

Probably wouldn't be hard for me to find a picture of a newlyweds enjoying a glass of wine. :p

I'll stick with the picture of my abstinence ring, though.
:eek:
Is that what that is? :eek:
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#58
While that is an interesting "take" on it, it doesn't line up with scripture. Jesus' mother asked (told?) him to help out. It was a wedding feast, and they were out of strong wine. Jesus made more for them, after trying to get his mother to let him off the hook.. who, like most mothers, wouldn't do.

Trying to make it a "symbolical" thing seems to be looking for something that wasn't there.
Jesus should have told Mary the ramifications of Him turning water into wine...the endless debate :rolleyes: